Burner not burning

[NickWild]

here is a copy of the email I sent to where I bouhgt my new 321235 burner


hello

heres my problem...the lite-0n burner I bought from you has something wrong
with it.....you can read and install software from it but it wont burn
cd's.......I loaded the nero software that came with it and try to burn a
data cd....the software goes through all the stages like its burning the
data...it even confirms that it burned successfully but when I try to access
the data after the burn ...the data isnt there it has slight burn rings on
the cd but is un accessable...i'm sending pics of the burning proccess so
you can see but I assure you the data isnt there on the cd when its
finished...I called your tech line but they told me to email you to get a
rma #


thank you
Nick
anyone got any ideas what it could be?

[/img]

 

[CougTek]

Seems weird. Have you tried several CD media brands or just one (a cheap one)?

A similar problem happened to me with an el cheapo Optorite POS burner some months ago, but it was the burner that was at fault (don't ever buy Optorite). However, your LTR-32123S is from Lite-On, a company reputed for the reliability of its optical products. Oh well, everybody makes a lime someday, but my experiences with your burner brand and model has been very positive so far. Maybe yours was made a friday afternoon?

You could try to re-install the firmware of your drive if nothing else works. Be sure what's the real model number of your drive though. You wrote 321235, which doesn't exist. It's either LTR-32123S (my guess) or LTR-32125W. I don't know if both can use the same firmware file, but since Lite-On created two separated firmware files for them, my guess would be "no".

 

[Sol]

Are you sure it's not just test burning? Some programs such as fireburner default to test burn all the time. I think Nero forces you to run a test burn every time you use new settings which you havn't tested before.

I'm guessing you already thought of this but it's worth a try before you RMA.

 

[Platform]

The write laser or the write laser's power supply has a problem (i.e -- "DOA"). If the software is indeed saying "job completed," then this goes to show that the Nero software is not doing its job properly of verifying that the CD-R writer is indeed writing legitimate data.

By the way Nick Wild, are you related in any way to Nick Danger?

(PS: This Subject should've been posted in the Tech Support section.) :eekers:

 

[NickWild]

Seems weird. Have you tried several CD media brands or just one (a cheap one)?

A similar problem happened to me with an el cheapo Optorite POS burner some months ago, but it was the burner that was at fault (don't ever buy Optorite). However, your LTR-32123S is from Lite-On, a company reputed for the reliability of its optical products. Oh well, everybody makes a lime someday, but my experiences with your burner brand and model has been very positive so far. Maybe yours was made a friday afternoon?

You could try to re-install the firmware of your drive if nothing else works. Be sure what's the real model number of your drive though. You wrote 321235, which doesn't exist. It's either LTR-32123S (my guess) or LTR-32125W. I don't know if both can use the same firmware file, but since Lite-On created two separated firmware files for them, my guess would be "no".

yes its the LTR-32123S and I have tried differant media....and I just upgraded the firmware from lite on and still the same problem


look at the responce I got from where I bought it

Ok did you update the software with all the latest drives and versions from
NERO.? We may get the unit back here and it will work fine for us or it may
not. It may be a software issue this is why we don't guarantee software
compatibility since the operating system may be incompatible with NERO which
it sounds like it may not be.

You also need to contact LITE on it may be a setting you are using as well.
That is strange. I must say the picks you sent are very professional! I am
impressed this is a good way to show us what is going on.

I suggest you contact LITE ON and NERO. You may need to change a setting.

Let us know what happens. You can also try the drive on a windows XP
Computer and use the XP software for writing try that as well.

Support

Sincerely,
Electroseller Support Team
1107 Station Rd.
Unit 5-B
Bellport, NY 11713
www.electroseller.com
.

 

[NickWild]

The write laser or the write laser's power supply has a problem (i.e -- "DOA"). If the software is indeed saying "job completed," then this goes to show that the Nero software is not doing its job properly of verifying that the CD-R writer is indeed writing legitimate data.

By the way Nick Wild, are you related in any way to Nick Danger?

(PS: This Subject should've been posted in the Tech Support section.) :eekers:

sorry about wrong area to post
yes Nick Danger is my partner

guess I will have to RMA

 

[Mender]

When you use Nero, make sure you select No Multisession (unless you actually need to use multisession mode) and also Finalise Disk. If the disk is left "open", this could be your problem.

 

[Tannin]

Nero seems to have some major design problems when it comes to multi-session burning. We are constantly getting calls from people who can't work out how to do it, and it is very limited in what it lets you do at all. Never thought I'd say this, but Easy CD Cremator beats Nero hollow for multi-session burns.

 

[Tannin]

Oh. And hi Mender. Welcome aboard.

 

[time]

Platform has lots of experience in these matters, so I'm afraid he's probably right.

If you want to ease your RMA process, download a trial of some other CDR mastering software (or try Nero's InCd with a CD-RW disc), so that you can say it didn't work with two different software packages.

Try: www.ntius.com

Their CD-Maker software is nearly foolproof.

 

[Tannin]

Yup, I've met the same symptoms myself from time to time, and the cause has been just what Platform says: bad laser.

 

[Platform]

Platform has lots of experience in these matters, so I'm afraid he's probably right...

I would be wrong and Mender correct if there are indeed written ("burned") tracks on the CD-R and Nick Wild only thought nothing was written to the blank CD-R disc. TIP: If a disc is half filled with data, you should clearly see that half the disc has been adulterated with a laser beam (er... burnt), whereas a "full" disc or a disc with 1 kilobyte of data basically looks the same across the surface.

[Q:] Does Nero 5.5xx have a default setting of "Multi-Session" when installed?

...yes Nick Danger is my partner

So, you know Nick Danger, a.k.a. -- "Third Eye" a.k.a. -- "Private Dick" ?

• 
  GEORGE [mumbling]: Let's see...Ocelots. Paupers. Pipe-nipples, Polombras, Pizzas!
  Armenian Gardens...Hank's Juggernaut... New Leviathan...Nick's Swell...
  
  [SOUND: HE PICKS UP THE PHONE AND DIALS. THE NEWSCAST GOES ON]
  
  GEORGE [phoning]: Uh, this is George Tirebiter, Camden N 200 R.
  [pause] Uh, I want to order a pizza to go, and no anchovies.
  [pause] What ?
  [clicks phone] Oh, man! Nobody will come up here at all!
  
  ANNOUNCER: He walks in! He's ready for mystery...he's ready for
  excitement! He's ready for anything...he's...
  
  [SOUND: TELEPHONE PICKED UP]
  
  NICK: Nick Danger, Third Eye!
  
  GEORGE: Uh-I wanna order a pizza to go, and no anchovies.
  
  NICK: No anchovies? You've got the wrong man. I spell my name...Danger! [click]
  
  GEORGE: What?
  
  [MUSIC: "NICK DANGER" THEME IN AND UNDER]
  
  ROCKY: I want to order an anchovy to go, and hold the pizza.
  
  NICK: Anchovies?
  
  ROCKY: Yeah, those little black things, with eyes!
  
  NICK: You've got the wrong man. I spell my name (LOOKS BACK AT THE GLASS DOOR) ...R E G N A D

http://www.firesigntheatre.com/

 

[Mender]

Oh. And hi Mender. Welcome aboard.

Hi, and thanks for the welcome. Glad to be here

the data isnt there it has slight burn rings on
the cd but is un accessable

This is why I think it may be multisession that is the problem.

[Q:] Does Nero 5.5xx have a default setting of "Multi-Session" when installed?

When you get to the final burn menu, if there is a box "Close Wizard" then click on it and you will get the "non-wizard" burning menu. The options include "Multisession". If you select this to see how it is set, you will see it defaults to "Start Multisession Disc", so you should select "No Multisession". Then select the "Burn" option, you will see it has an option to "Finalise Disc", but by default, this is not ticked. You must tick this. It is a failing of Nero to have the defaults set like this. I know many people who have had the same problem because they used the default settings, leaving the disc unreadable in any other drive.

 

[Tannin]

But what if you want to add stuff to the disc later?

Out of the box, Easy CD Cremator simply burns the track, closes the session, and leaves the disc open. (Unless you fiddle with the advanced settings and bugger them up.) Want to add an extra file or two to the CD? Slip it into the drive, pick out the files you want, hit "burn". That's it. Unless you have run out or space or closed the disc, there is nothing more to know. You don't even have to know what a "multi-session recording" is, you just stick data on your CD and can add more data as often as you like till you run out of space. (This is handy for utility discs, and absolutely essential if you want to use your CDR as a backup device - which, strictly-ahem-legitimate-backuping aside, is the primary purpose of CD recorders for most people.)

Nero, on the other hand, has some appalling idiocies in its user interface. Nero's handling of multi-session recordings is just plain brain-dead. You have to go through all that close wizzard crap to have any chance of making multi-session discs. You can make the first burn OK, but then it gives you "bad media" messages when you try to add something. You have to navigate through an obscure set of options that are anything but obvious to the ordinary user, and then do it again every time you switch between making a first burn and adding tracks. And it doesn't let you set up a burn and then make an arbitrary number of copies. (At least if it does, I haven't discovered that particular option yet.)

If you need to close the disc, why is it that we can make multi-session discs all the time (with CD Cremator) and have never had the slightest trouble reading them - and that's on a wide variety of machines, thousands each year, with every possible drive type for the dear old Panasonic 562 2-speed on up. And burned on various CD Cremator versions with several different drives, starting with our Yamahe SCSI 2X, then a series of Panasonics through 4 and 8X and, finally the TEAC. Now that we have finally figured out how to burn multi-session with Nero, we have been reading these on many different machines too. Is there a trick that I need to know?

The only trouble we have is writing the damn things. Nero is difficult enough that we recently installed our wonderful old TEAC 8X burner back into our burner box just so that we could run CD Cremator on it. (Our burning softare, being OEM, comes pre-locked to particular makes and models of drive: so to write to the Mitsubishi 32X we have to use Nero and read from the TEAC, and with Cremator we have to do the reverse.)

 

[e_dawg]

I have always thought Multisession to be a bad thing in terms of guaranteeing that all your data be accessible in any reader. Back in the days when only 2x burners were available, I believe that some readers weren't even multisession capable. To this day I even try to write single session, finalized, DAO discs whenever possible -- especially for audio CD's.

CD's, IMO, should not be used for periodic/incremental backups where you write multiple sessions to CD. That to me is the purpose of tape or hard drive backup solutions. I prefer to think of the CD as a format that is Write Once, Read Many (WORM).

Those CD-R's cost 50 cents each for a spindle... forget about multisession.

 

[Tannin]

Example 1: Have you got any idea how many discs we would go through if we didn't multi-session? Every single time we download a patch or a driver from the web (or just go to our server for the one we already downloaded) we have to burn it to CD to get it onto the target machine. Unless it fits on a floppy, of course. That's several times a day. And we create our own compilations too. For example, at any given time, we will have a dozen or more 98 install CDs kicking around, plus ME, 2K, all the other versions. And on those CDs we put stuff like the VIA 4 in 1s, sound drivers, Opera, Netscape, patches, the whole lot. One disc, set up the entire system. And whenever a new version of the Detonator drivers comes out, we need to update the install CDs. Multi-session ain't a luxury, it's a necessity.

Example 2: Backup. CDR is the ONLY practical, affordable home and small business backup method. Floppies? Not a chance. Tape drives? You are kidding me. Non-enterprise tape drives suck. Expensive, unreliable, inconvenient, non-portable: sucker bait. Thank God we don't have to use them any more. Zip drives? You would have to be a lunatic. It's CDR or ... er ... CDR. Everyone uses them for backup, because they are the best method. Period. But if you aim to do daily backups of your critical files - typically just your main accounting app's data and maybe your documents folder - and you don't multi-session it, then you are looking at about AU or CN $300 a year just for blank discs, and you are using maybe 5 to 10% of the space on each disc. Terrible wasteful, and small business people don't like waste.

And multi-session works just fine. Most two-speed drives can read multi-session. I've never seen an eight-speed drive that couldn't. If multi-session was really a no-no, then BurnProof and SafeWrite and all the other zero-coaster schemes would be useless, because that is all they do: pause the recording and hen continue in a fresh session. Maybe it's no good for audio - I don't know, I don't mess about doing fancy stuff with audio, just copy an entire disc now and then - but for data, multi-session is a basic essential. The way Nero handles multi-session is primarily a testament to just how bad Easy CD Cremator is - even crap like Nero can push it off the best-seller list.

(Ye Gods! Me saying relatively nice things about Easy CD Cremator! Until I met Nero's multi-session incompetence, I would never have believed it. But the true measure of the bad design of Nero is the number of support phone calls we have to answer - and that's lots. Probably 10 times as many calls per unit sold as CD Cremator. Speaks for itself.)

 

[NickWild]

Oh. And hi Mender. Welcome aboard.

Hi, and thanks for the welcome. Glad to be here

the data isnt there it has slight burn rings on
the cd but is un accessable

This is why I think it may be multisession that is the problem.

[Q:] Does Nero 5.5xx have a default setting of "Multi-Session" when installed?

When you get to the final burn menu, if there is a box "Close Wizard" then click on it and you will get the "non-wizard" burning menu. The options include "Multisession". If you select this to see how it is set, you will see it defaults to "Start Multisession Disc", so you should select "No Multisession". Then select the "Burn" option, you will see it has an option to "Finalise Disc", but by default, this is not ticked. You must tick this. It is a failing of Nero to have the defaults set like this. I know many people who have had the same problem because they used the default settings, leaving the disc unreadable in any other drive.

ok first of all yes I am getting burn rings.....I did exactly as you said and chose no multi and and ticked the finalize disk but saddley enough it does the same thing.....goes through the whole process and confirms successfully completed the red light on the burner stays lit while burning but when i try to view the burned disk the green light on the burner keeps flickering for a long time and can never see the files that were just burned


getting frustrated

Nick

 

[Clocker]

Nick-

I just skimmed this thread....do you have the latest version of Nero?

My Liteon 4125S shipped with a version of Nero that did not fully support it. I had to download the latest and greatest update from Nero before using it.

C

 

[NickWild]

Nick-

I just skimmed this thread....do you have the latest version of Nero?

My Liteon 4125S shipped with a version of Nero that did not fully support it. I had to download the latest and greatest update from Nero before using it.

C

hey C

well its the vertion they sent with the drive 5.5.5.6 bundled

and also I forgot to tell everyone that I did try another trial software i.e.
cd mate http://www.cd-mate.com/ and got the same results from it

but I will try as you say and upgrade this nero mess

 

[Mender]

But what if you want to add stuff to the disc later?

I was only talking about straight burning methods which I thought was clear from my first post in this thread;

When you use Nero, make sure you select No Multisession (unless you actually need to use multisession mode) and also Finalise Disk.

Of course, if you actually wish to use multisession mode, then you just close the session when you are ready so it is readable in other drives. You wouldn't need to close the disk until you want to.

For a beginner (and even some more experienced users) the defaults in Nero have caused confusion and problems.

 

[Mender]

NickWild, have you tried a different make of CDR? It could be the drive doen'st like the disks you are using.

 

[NickWild]

NickWild, have you tried a different make of CDR? It could be the drive doen'st like the disks you are using.

WELL WELL WELL

guess what Mender?



BAM!

that worked


thanx guys for all the input

Nick Wild <-------Nick Danger's partener

 

[Pradeep]

And multi-session works just fine. Most two-speed drives can read multi-session. I've never seen an eight-speed drive that couldn't. If multi-session was really a no-no, then BurnProof and SafeWrite and all the other zero-coaster schemes would be useless, because that is all they do: pause the recording and hen continue in a fresh session.

That's not how the zero coaster systems work, they just carry on from where they paused, there is no extra session. No lead out/lead in. Otherwise when you open up a CD that has had a couple of burn proof events, there could be 5 or ten different sessions.

 

[Tannin]

I thought they did a new session? Or a new something, anyway. Wasn't there supposed to be an audiophile-level issue with burnproof that the rest of the world didn't seem to notoce? I remember reading something on SR about it.

 

[Mender]

Burnproof technology has never started a new session after pausing. It couldn't possibly work as if it paused in the middle of writing a file then started a new session to write the rest of the file, that file would be unreadable. You can't read a single file spread across two sessions because the last thing written in a session has to have an end-of-file (eof) marker, and the first thing written to a session has to have a start-of-file (sof) marker .

The original BurnProof left quite a gap (I think it was around 200ms) between where it paused and where it restarted. This was not noticeable on data disks, but a tiny click could be heard if it happened on audio disks. Then Seamless Link came out which left such a tiny gap (either 4ms or 40ms, I can't remember which) that you would need electronic measuring equipment to detect it.
Most modern buffer underrun protections such as the one incorporated in Liteon's SmartBurn are so sophisticated that no measurable gap is left.

 

[Tannin]

Ahh. Thankyou Mender.

 

[time]

Seems weird. Have you tried several CD media brands or just one (a cheap one)?

yes its the LTR-32123S and I have tried differant media...

Huh? The first sentence of the first reply contained your solution! What happened? :lol:

Would you mind identifying the suspect media for the benefit of the rest of us? Thanks.

 

[CougTek]

I wanted to mention it, but refrained. Thanks Time.

Maybe I simply wasn't clear enough the first time and Nick thought I was talking about something else. I should have written "Have you tried different CDR media brands..."

 

[NickWild]

Seems weird. Have you tried several CD media brands or just one (a cheap one)?

yes its the LTR-32123S and I have tried differant media...

Huh? The first sentence of the first reply contained your solution! What happened? :lol:

Would you mind identifying the suspect media for the benefit of the rest of us? Thanks.

man o man your right time.....I think the reason i didnt check what he said is because he said it happened on his "cheapo" burner and I been using this media with all my previous burners including Plextor 24x and have had no problems with it....I never thought it would be the media

as far as the brand of this media i'm sorry to tell you I have no idea....I bought like 100 disks about 2 yrs ago and have about maybe 15 or 20 left...I threw away the spindle cover and they are just plain white with no markings...I happen to have bought 100 philips cd-r80 40x disks at best buy just recently but was trying to use up my old stuff before using them...but I popped one in when I was at the end of my rope and mender suggested it could be the media I said wtf let me try 1 and sure enough thats what it was lol


thanx again all

 

[time]

You can download this program from Lite-On to identify the media manufacturer. It's main purpose is to tell you the maximum speed the burner will attempt with a particular disc.

Useful if you have a 40x burner but it reckons the media is only good for 16x.

 

[time]

If you select this to see how it is set, you will see it defaults to "Start Multisession Disc", so you should select "No Multisession". Then select the "Burn" option, you will see it has an option to "Finalise Disc", but by default, this is not ticked. You must tick this.

You are wrong. Most people should use the Nero default for maximum flexibility. And the only reason to "finalise" a disc is to write protect it.

The main effect of selecting Multisession in Nero is to restrict your options to 'Track at Once' writing. 'Disc at Once' is disabled.

It also stores less directory information (don't ask me for details), thereby hampering merging of modified or deleted files when you go to add a second session. But you can still add new folders and files.

So it's another fairly pointless Nero feature as far as most people are concerned.

Another example of where 'Nero knows best' is copying a disc. It forces the disc to be finalised, whereas NTI CD Maker allows you to return and append sessions to hold patches or service packs, for instance. Very useful.

BTW E_Dawg, even old audio players will read multisession discs. It's just that they will only read the first session. This is how the 'CD Extra' format works.

 

[NickWild]

If you select this to see how it is set, you will see it defaults to "Start Multisession Disc", so you should select "No Multisession". Then select the "Burn" option, you will see it has an option to "Finalise Disc", but by default, this is not ticked. You must tick this.

You are wrong. Most people should use the Nero default for maximum flexibility. And the only reason to "finalise" a disc is to write protect it.

The main effect of selecting Multisession in Nero is to restrict your options to 'Track at Once' writing. 'Disc at Once' is disabled.

It also stores less directory information (don't ask me for details), thereby hampering merging of modified or deleted files when you go to add a second session. But you can still add new folders and files.

So it's another fairly pointless Nero feature as far as most people are concerned.

Another example of where 'Nero knows best' is copying a disc. It forces the disc to be finalised, whereas NTI CD Maker allows you to return and append sessions to hold patches or service packs, for instance. Very useful.

BTW E_Dawg, even old audio players will read multisession discs. It's just that they will only read the first session. This is how the 'CD Extra' format works.

hey time

neat little program...heres the info on the old cd disks that wouldnt work


This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Cyanine
ATIP Lead-in = 97m 26s 60f
Norminal Capacity = 658.89MB (75m 00s 00f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = CMC
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 32X

and heres the info on the new disks I bought

This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Phthalocyanine
ATIP Lead-in = 97m 26s 66f
Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = CMC,Imation
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 32X

 

[Mender]

You are wrong. Most people should use the Nero default for maximum flexibility.

I disagree. It is limiting the capabilities of your burner.

The main effect of selecting Multisession in Nero is to restrict your options to 'Track at Once' writing. 'Disc at Once' is disabled.

You say above that using the Nero defaults allows maximum flexibility, but if people follow that advice, bang goes the option to overburn (not possible in TAO mode), which is where many people have problems.

Another example of where 'Nero knows best' is copying a disc. It forces the disc to be finalised

Strangely enough, every version of Nero I have used leaves the "Finalise Disk" option not ticked by default even when you are copying a disk.