Buying a projector

[ddrueding]

I'll be buying a projector for my home theater within the next week. Does anyone have any reccomendations/suggestions? I'll likely be buying it at a retail store as impulse buys require instant gratification. I'm looking for the folllowing:

Min res: 800x600
Min lumens: 1100(+)
Celieng mountable
DVI input

Price? Preferably under $1200, but as much as $2000 could be done if warranted.

Thanks.

 

[ddrueding]

Right now I'm looking at the InFocus X1A, which just meets my minimum specs for $750. Though I really am concerner about it not being bright enough.

 

[Mercutio]

1000 lumens looks like ass unless you can black out the room.
2000 lumens is bright enough to work with with normal lights on.

1024x768 is worth the extra money.

Below 1000:1 contrast, IMO the projected image looks washed out, like on a projection TV. Blah. 2000:1, much happier and more lifelike. There's probably a happy medium in there somewhere.

Based on specs, something like a BenQ PB8220 looks like it's a winner. I'm not a committed BenQ fan, but for $1500, I don't know how much I would argue. Of course, at that price it does VGA, not DVI.

I have Mitsubshi X400Us in some of my labs. I think they were $2200 with the ceiling mount. I really like those, for the money. Dual VGA inputs are really handy. The X450U has DVI, but it's a little out of your price range.

Don't forget, your ceiling mount is going to be $100 to $300, and your long video cable will be $50 to $200.


An InFocus Screenplay 5000 is in your price range. It does HDMI, which may or may not be a good thing, it does 1280x720 and it's $1500, but its brightness and contrast aren't all that exciting.

 

[Mercutio]

Oh. HDMI.

For the uninitiated: HDMI is the "next generation" display connector, to supplant analog VGA or Component cables, and DVI. It is, in fact, an extension of DVI.

The carrot for HDMI adoption is a single cable that can carry audio and video data... not that it would for anyone using a proper monitor + receiver setup.

The stick is that the HDMI bitstream can be copy-protected end-to-end. At some point, your Movie Player and/or DVR and/or HDTV receiver will be able to tell whether you have end-to-end HDMI, or whether you're using some other cabling and/or display tech. Based on that, your source box (HDDVD, HDTV, or DVR) would then restrict your viewing to a lower than optimal video stream.

In other words, if you have a projector with DVI, your HDTV receiver might say "that's not copy protected!" and only output a downsampled 480p stream, instead of the 1080p stream it's getting from Echostar.

This is, of course, horse shit. But the studios have pretty much gotten their way with all this stuff.

 

[Pradeep]

The stick is that the HDMI bitstream can be copy-protected end-to-end.

DVI with HDCP (which has been around for a few years now) has the same protections as HDMI. Nothing new there. Smaller connector, longer cable runs, higher bandwidth, I see HDMI as only a positive upgrade from DVI-HDCP (aka DVI-HDTV). Also some people use HDMI between say DVD player and receiver. This allows multichannel high rez sound (say DVD-Audio) to be sent on the one cable digitally, instead of via 6 analog cables. And then another HDMI connection from receiver to TV.

Moral of the story? Make sure that any display device you get today, has either DVI-HDCP or HDMI support.

I don't think we're going to see 1080p from any satellite co's anytime soon. They are too busy putting the top market local HD channels up via MPEG4.

 

[mubs]

DisplayPort: New display interface standard inches closer

 

[ddrueding]

Thanks for the feedback guys. If I can swing it, that BenQ PB8220 looks great. I doubt that 1024x768 will suffer that badly over a 20' VGA cable.

 

[ddrueding]

Well, I ended up getting the Sharp XR-20X and am incredibly happy with it. Let me brag with the specs:

2300 Lumens
1024x768
Dual VGA input (also supports composite, S-Video, whatever)
Digital Keystone
"Cool&Quiet mode" - 2000 Lumens at half the volume with 50% more bulb life.

I love it, now I just need a celieng mount kit and some wiring done.

 

[ddrueding]

Oh yeah, $1300 at Frys new. That made me giggle.

 

[Pradeep]

Sounds like a good deal. I take it you aren't prone to seeng rainbows?

 

[ddrueding]

Sounds like a good deal. I take it you aren't prone to seeng rainbows?

Nope. I've read how and have tried, no luck

 

[Handruin]

I noticed rainbows in a black and white film shown on a Dell DLP projector (make/model unkown). Turning my eyes quickly to the side, revealed a rainbow effect...disturbing the first time I noticed, annoying every time I turned my eyes to the side.

 

[Mercutio]

I just bought a BenQ 6240 DLP projector. $1200 after a $100 rebate plus it has a rebate for a spare lamp (about another $300).

It's a 2700 lumen projector with a 2000:1 contrast ratio. It supports 1024x768 and HD resolutions up to 1080i.

Even if it's crappy, that's shockingly cheap for those specs.

 

[ddrueding]

After 4 years, 3 bulbs, and considerable enjoyment my Sharp XR-20X died a loud, smelly, and slightly fiery death last night. I was hoping that it would hold out until the prices of 1080p stuff came down some more, but there it is.

Looking at an InFocus X10. It isn't as bright as my old projector, so instead of aiming at the wall, I was planning on getting a fixed-frame screen. I may as well also get a HDCP-capable video card for the machine (PCIe) that is as cool and quiet as possible. I plan on mirroring a 23" monitor connected with DVI as well, so both connectors would be needed.

How does this look? I wasn't in the market, so I don't really know the status of stuff. The order will be placed in about 26 hours, my wife doesn't like being without a TV.

 

[Stereodude]

I would want something with more contrast and a dynamic iris, but that's not in the cards for $1200.

 

[udaman]

After 4 years, 3 bulbs, and considerable enjoyment my Sharp XR-20X died a loud, smelly, and slightly fiery death last night. I was hoping that it would hold out until the prices of 1080p stuff came down some more, but there it is.

Looking at an InFocus X10. It isn't as bright as my old projector, so instead of aiming at the wall, I was planning on getting a fixed-frame screen. I may as well also get a HDCP-capable video card for the machine (PCIe) that is as cool and quiet as possible. I plan on mirroring a 23" monitor connected with DVI as well, so both connectors would be needed.

How does this look? I wasn't in the market, so I don't really know the status of stuff. The order will be placed in about 26 hours, my wife doesn't like being without a TV.

Actually dd, this is an uncharacteristic post, 'are you feeling alright dave' (HAL9000)? U need to spread out those details in at least 4 more posts so the others can vet out all the usual qualifiers

I would want something with more contrast and a dynamic iris, but that's not in the cards for $1200.

Uh, SD...U have noticed some changes in dd's life since '05? Maybe you need to do some more vetting of dd's *current* qualifiers, before assuming $1200?

Bulbs? We don't need no stinking bulbs! LED light engine?

in 26hrs from the exact time you posted that qualifier, or is there some leeway? If so, how much? Does this include the necessity of next day delivery, or will you pickup locally same day?

like a certain 23yr old ranting SR member, who appears have gotten over his SR addiction..."hope that helps"


....or have you already bought it, but just haven't been able to post it yet, lol.

 

[Stereodude]

Uh, SD...U have noticed some changes in dd's life since '05? Maybe you need to do some more vetting of dd's *current* qualifiers, before assuming $1200?

Good point... DD seems to have a lot of cash to throw around, so I'm not sure why he's looking at a $1200 projector. Now this is a nice projector. This one is even nicer.

 

[ddrueding]

Meh, I don't have that much cash to throw around. Particularly now that the buyer for my old system fell through, and my car needs new tires, and I just bought a new sail for my boat (more than the projector), and I broke my tripod, and we need a new washer and dryer...things are stacking up fast.

Yes, I am looking at a $1200 projector (the one linked, seems to be the best price). I'm hoping to get all the bits needed for less than $2k (projector, screen, 40' HDMI, video card).

More contrast would be nice, but we don't have the best control over ambient light as it is. I could get a few hundred more in the budget if that would make a substantial difference, but this seemed to max the bang/buck in this segment.

 

[udaman]

Can you return what you got for a full refund?

Cause you'll need every dollar and mortgage your life away...but the Mrs will <3 this:

http://www.laserfocusworld.com/disp...roduction-video-projector"-to-debut-next-mont

^link

3D pr0n @4k res all over the whole wall! woot!...er,

 

[ddrueding]

The projector arrived, but the screen hasn't yet. This is a much narrower throw than my last projector; even narrower than the online calculators led me to believe. I'll need to re-arrange some stuff.

 

[ddrueding]

The home theater guy installed one of these at my boss' house many years ago:

SIM2 Grand Cinema HT C3X-LINK

Yes, it actually uses a 20m fiber optic link from a signal processor in the rack to a projector in the back. It also cost an amazing amount of money. It is also only 720p.

This is a projector that, on paper, looks fantastic.

Viewsonic Pro8400 HD

It is brighter, has higher resolution, and supports your normal inputs. All the system is currently using is a single HDMI, and I think that will easily reach back to the projector room on it's own.

The bulb just blew, and the replacement bulb is nearly the price of the Viewsonic. Why is replacing the projector a bad idea? I must be missing something.

 

[Santilli]

Every once in awhile I saw a great price on clearance or sale here:
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/...iref=estorehome_shopby_projectors_home#tabs=2

 

[Mercutio]

The bulb just blew, and the replacement bulb is nearly the price of the Viewsonic. Why is replacing the projector a bad idea? I must be missing something.

Perhaps because of the costs involved in getting a professional installation and calibration for the unit?

 

[ddrueding]

Nope, those are all MSRP for the parts alone. Does the C3X-LINK actually do anything substantially better? My the numbers it doesn't look like it, but they do use a bunch of magic words in describing their own awesomeness.

 

[Stereodude]

I think you're delusional if you think a cheapo noisy conference room projector is a suitable replacement for the Sim2 projector. One is a 3 chip DLP which doesn't suffer from rainbows and the other is a color wheel equipped rainbow delivering special. The Sim2 does have better contrast. Is probably brighter when D65 calibrated. Certainly has better optics...

To use a car analogy you're asking the equivalent of why a you shouldn't replace a few year old Ferrari that needs some engine work with a Honda Civic because it's new and shiny.

 

[Mercutio]

Aren't Ferraris maintenance nightmares and Civics reliableworkhorses?
That is perhaps a flawed analogy, 'cause I'd take a Civic every time.

 

[ddrueding]

New Civics will also outperform old Ferraris. That is the foundation of my question. I know the Sim2 was better than the cheap stuff when it was made, but how about now?

 

[Stereodude]

It has more resolution. That's the only place I see it outperforming the C3x. How much is the bulb for the C3x? $1k?

 

[ddrueding]

$1100 plus shipping and tax.

The two items that I noticed were resolution and brightness. I know there are other factors that affect quality, I just don't know enough about them.

 

[Howell]

Is the longevity of the two bulbs equivalent?

 

[Stereodude]

The two items that I noticed were resolution and brightness.

I'd bet a lot of money it's not actually brighter after you calibrate both of them to D65.

 

[ddrueding]

Is the longevity of the two bulbs equivalent?

Yup.

 

[Pradeep]

The home theater guy installed one of these at my boss' house many years ago:

SIM2 Grand Cinema HT C3X-LINK

Yes, it actually uses a 20m fiber optic link from a signal processor in the rack to a projector in the back. It also cost an amazing amount of money. It is also only 720p.

This is a projector that, on paper, looks fantastic.

Viewsonic Pro8400 HD

It is brighter, has higher resolution, and supports your normal inputs. All the system is currently using is a single HDMI, and I think that will easily reach back to the projector room on it's own.

The bulb just blew, and the replacement bulb is nearly the price of the Viewsonic. Why is replacing the projector a bad idea? I must be missing something.

It's certainly possible for the 720p Sim2 to deliver a better overall picture quality than that single chip 1080p Epson. More than likely better optics, 3 chip for no rainbows, better contrast ratio etc. The Epson may be able to punch thru ambient lighting in a board room ok, but isn't optimized for a home theatre type setup.

If looking to replace the projector in this case I would employ the services of an AV company such that your boss can demo the proposed replacement in place, that way he can give the thumbs up/thumbs down.

I'm going for the new Sony oled head mounted display myself, a projector for one, also only 720p, but great black levels and extremely fast response times.

 

[time]

Isn't the Viewsonic Pro8200 the model intended for home theater rather than the Pro8400? It has a 7-segment color wheel instead of 5-segment, longer lamp life and a light output and contrast ratio more suited to a home than a conference venue.

Stereodude, they're quiet enough (27dB in Eco mode), and it looks like the color wheel betters the 4x fps operation that is now common. Are rainbow artifacts still going to be visible?

Agree though that it isn't a videophile projector - aren't there other single chip options?

 

[Stereodude]

It all depends on how sensitive the viewer is to rainbows. FWIW, I can see them on the fastest color wheels.

 

[ddrueding]

I can't see any rainbows in any projectors. Noise isn't important here as there is an actual projection room behind the theater with soundproof glass.

 

[Howell]

Has he been happy with what he had? If so I see the best scenario as he may remember the quality of the previous projector when he sees the new one and that appreciation may last a month. In the worst case scenario there are all kinds of ways this can go wrong and/or cost you a lot of time. Parts may be returnable but you can never get the installation time back. It gets even worse if that model is a lemon.

 

[Handruin]

It all depends on how sensitive the viewer is to rainbows. FWIW, I can see them on the fastest color wheels.

I can't say about the faster color wheels, but I'm also able to see the color artifacts when I turn my head away from the projection. It's most noticeable in a black and white film.

 

[ddrueding]

Just sent the SIM2 back to Florida for repairs, when the bulb blew it sprayed molten glass all over the internals and caused the fan controller to fail.

Now I get to decide what the "tipping point" repair cost is that causes us to evaluate new units. Also needing consideration is that most of the rest of the processing system is 720p limited, and that no HDMI was run to the projector booth when the fiber was run.

This is going to get messy and expensive fast.

 

[CougTek]

This is going to get messy and expensive fast.

Yeah but you know what's funny? It's not your money! So just propose and enjoy the show. Pretty much like we do when Greg is building a new system (or you).