Only in America ...

[Tea]

Someone posted this on the BirdForum, where Tannin hangs out almost as much as I hang out here. Apparently a true story. Worth repeating.

An elderly Florida lady did her shopping, and upon returning to her car, found 4 males in the act of leaving with her vehicle.

She dropped her shopping bags and drew her handgun, proceeding to scream at the top of her voice: "I have a gun, and I know how to use it! Get out of the car!" The 4 men didn't wait for a second invitation.

They got out and ran like mad.

The lady, somewhat shaken, then proceeded to load her shopping bags into the back seat of the car and get into the driver's seat. She was so shaken that she could not get her key into the ignotion. She tried and tried, and then it dawned on her why.

A few minutes later she found her own car parked 4 or 5 spaces further down. She loaded her bags into the car and then drove to the police station.

The sergeant to whom she told the story doubled over on the floor with laughter. He pointed to the other end of the counter, where 4 pale men were reporting a car jacking by a mad, elderly woman described as white, less than 5 feet tall, glasses, curly white hair and carrying a large handgun.

No charges were filed.

 

[Buck]

:bglaugh:

 

[Handruin]

That was very funny!

:rofl:

 

[Groltz]

Quit slandering my Grandmother, Tea.


*Just kidding*

 

[blakerwry]

That reminds me of something that happenned in my family... my aunt had gotten a rental car when she was visiting us.. it was the same make/model and year as our car, but a different color. She had stopped by the grocery store that we usually shop at... coincidentally my father went to the store at the same time.. the two parked on the same isle a few spots apart...

Aparently my father came out of the store to find my aunt in our car using the keys from the rental car to try and start our car... her rental car's keys had unlocked the doors, but would not work in the ignition... true story.

 

[flagreen]

And you wonder how Pat Buchanan got so many votes in Palm Beach county?

I would never shoot someone for trying to steal my truck. I might bluff them that I would shoot but it's not worth taking someone's life over. My $.02 worth.

 

[e_dawg]

I would never shoot someone for trying to steal my truck. I might bluff them that I would shoot but it's not worth taking someone's life over. My $.02 worth.

One morning I walked up to my car in the parking garage to find broken glass everywhere. It took a while for it to sink in that someone did a smash and grab on my car stereo. I was absolutely pissed for the next few days. After all the hassle of going down to the police station and filing a report, contacting my insurance company, going to the collision/body repair center, paying the $500 deductible, and getting another stereo installed, every time I walked to/from my car in the parking garage that week, I had this murderous rage inside me, thinking "if I happen to run into whoever did this, I would be very tempted to beat them to a bloody pulp". Not that I have anger control issues or anything :mrgrn: (I have a feeling that Coug might understand where I'm coming from )

 

[Santilli]

e dawg: That's normal :lol:

As for the story:
:jumpin:

:council:

:rofl:

 

[e_dawg]

e dawg: That's normal :lol:

But what happened to "turn the other cheek"? Shouldn't I say "please, steal my new stereo" and unlock the doors if I should run into the poor misguided souls? Where's GodsGurl when you need some spiritual advice? :mrgrn:

 

[i]

But what happened to "turn the other cheek"? Shouldn't I say "please, steal my new stereo" and unlock the doors if I should run into the poor misguided souls? Where's GodsGurl when you need some spiritual advice? :mrgrn:

Of course, if you had left your doors unlocked, your car would've sustained a lot less damage. :wink:

 

[Howell]

e dawg: That's normal :lol:

But what happened to "turn the other cheek"? Shouldn't I say "please, steal my new stereo" and unlock the doors if I should run into the poor misguided souls? Where's GodsGurl when you need some spiritual advice? :mrgrn:

You are perfectly justified in giving them an attitude adjustment. That "old lady with a gun" story is priceless.

 

[Mickey]

blakerwry, something similar happened at work once. I usually use the keyless entry to unlock the doors when I go out to my car. I don't even notice if the lights blink or not, normally, just hop in and drive off.

One evening, I went out, got in and was about to put the key in the ignition when I noticed the seatbelts looked different (automated vs. the manual ones in my car) and that the dash looked different, too.

Turns out I had gotten into an almost identical car, no doubt driven either by a coworker or someone else in the same building. Either this person hadn't locked the doors at all, or my keyless entry fob managed to open another car's doors. Odd, in either case.

 

[blakerwry]

that could be embarrasing mickey.


E_dawg.. I had someone do a theft of my stereo as well... stole over $1000 worth of stuff.. but insurance would only cover the $260 stereo (if I paid a $250 deducatable)... sounds nice, eh?


It took a while for it to sink in.. at 1st i thought someone was playing a prank on me...

the thing is I did leave my doors unlocked... so no damage was sustained to the car other than the fumbling fingers of the person stealing my stereo scratching up my dash...

They also stole the mounting brackets for my stereo... which truley was an ordeal... I ended up buying sheet metal and making my own mounting brackets for the new stereo because it was so hard to get replacement mounting brackets...

about 6 months later I found a mounting bracket next to my neighbor's trash... really makes me wonder...

 

[Santilli]

E_dawg:
That turn the other bun stuff is mis-represented, and mis-quoted.

It's very easy to do that kind of stuff when you are the son of God.
However, he wasn't very tolerant of Pharisees invading His temples.

If you look at Christ's actions on earth, they are a bunch of "do as I say, not as I do" concerning this situation.

Somehow I don't think the Pharisees, or Judas Iscariot had a wonderful time in Heaven. In fact, judging Christ's former ethnic group, wasn't
"an eye for an eye" their motto?
:boom:
:farao:
:crucified:

gs

 

[Santilli]

CAN WE SPELL:

"ALARM" :?:

Hello :excl:

I've found that my alarm has deterred 100% of attacks on my car. In Hawaii, I'd always have to leave the car, with either surfboard inside, or at the break. The local scum would always be trying to screw with your car, just to screw with you, and or, to steal and fence your surfboard.

Alarm saved many a board, and the car.

gs
:bibber:

 

[Santilli]

Just look at my icon for my view of how such things should be handled...

:evil:

 

[blakerwry]

heh, yeah. I've since installed an alarm and have had no more problems.. but I have lived in a really nice neighborhood for the past 10 or so years anyway..

now that I'm moved into an apartment I'll have to see...


A classmate of mine had a new stereo and alarm put into his car.. a week later his door lock had been drilled out and his stereo stolen... he replaced the stereo and alarm and again it was stolen.. he suspects the installers of the alarm are the theives.

 

[Santilli]

Yes, we have had a couple stereo "deinstallers" nailed doing the same thing in this area.

gs

 

[jtr1962]

The solution to stolen car stereos is simple-take them out when you first get the car and put a "NO STEREO" sign in your window. Now you won't have to worry about someone breaking your window or otherwise trashing your car just to steal the stereo. As a bonus, you have one less driver distraction. People have been doing this in NYC since at least the 1980s. Now one of the big things to steal are those HID headlights. Unfortunately, the thieves remove them rather roughly and cause other damage. Here again the same idea is applied-just order your car without the HID option or take them out and replace them with standard halogens. Admittedly not the best solution, but since the liberals are loathe to lock up people and won't let you use any means of self-defense to deal with these creeps it's really the only option left. Another solution, which is the one I like best, is not to own a car at all. :mrgrn: No worries about parking, vandalism, or theft, and it's better for the environment to walk, bike, or take the train.

 

[i]

Is setting a trap for a thief illegal?

 

[Mickey]

Is setting a trap for a thief illegal?

In the US it is, if there is intent to harm. I think it falls under "entrapment?"

Even *if* it's tempting at times...

Had someone smash in the rear driver side window (the fixed triangular one, not the one that rolls down). Didn't try to steal anything. Just left the shattered glass in my car. :x Apparently, some bloke wandering that stretch was peeved the local used music store refused to buy his cd's. He took it out on my car instead. *sigh*

 

[jtr1962]

Is setting a trap for a thief illegal?

Yep. I read about a guy who owned a store and was sick and tired of getting broken into. One day he decided to connect his store gate to 240VAC after he closed up. Next time somebody tried to break in they were electrocuted(good solution if you ask me). Anyway, I think he served jail time and in addition the family of the deceased person sued him in court for excessive use of force(and won IIRC). As I said, the damned liberals around here not only won't lock people up but they won't even let you carry any means of defense against these scum. Mace, stun guns, knives, box cutters, and of course guns are all illegal to carry in NYC limits under most circumstances. You can allegedly obtain a carry permit, but it's practically impossible unless you're politically connected. It's almost like they want people to be victimized so they have another issue at election time-"I'm going to be tough on crime." And then they never are(except for Giuliani). Problem is part of Guiliani's crime policy involved giving tickets for all sorts of petty offenses like jaywalking or cycling on the sidewalk(neither of which had anything to do with crime but they did make it appear as though the police were doing something), and otherwise turning NYC into the biggest police state outside North Korea.

 

[Buck]

E_dawg:
That turn the other bun stuff is mis-represented, and mis-quoted.

It's very easy to do that kind of stuff when you are the son of God.
However, he wasn't very tolerant of Pharisees invading His temples.

If you look at Christ's actions on earth, they are a bunch of "do as I say, not as I do" concerning this situation.

Somehow I don't think the Pharisees, or Judas Iscariot had a wonderful time in Heaven. In fact, judging Christ's former ethnic group, wasn't
"an eye for an eye" their motto?
gs

GS

The saying, ‘turn the other cheek’ is often misquoted. At Matthew 5:39, Jesus said, “Do not resist him that is wicked; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.” A slap is an insult, often designed to provoke a fight. By not retaliating when subjected to insulting speech or action, the Christian may prevent trouble. This harmonizes with Proverbs 15:1, which says, “An answer, when mild turns away rage.” The situation, however, is very different when one is threatened with serious bodily harm. In his Law to Israel, God revealed that the individual had the right of self-defense. For example, regarding a thief who broke into a house at night, the Law stated at Exodus 22:2: “If a thief should be found in the act of breaking in and he does get struck and die, there is no bloodguilt for him.” At night it would be very hard to determine the intentions of the intruder. To protect himself from possible harm, the homeowner had the right to inflict hard blows. And if these blows proved fatal, he was considered to be free from bloodguilt. Nonetheless, Exodus 22:3 continues, “If the sun has shone forth upon him, there is bloodguilt for him. He is to make compensation without fail. If he has nothing, then he must be sold for the things he stole.” In the daytime, the thief could be identified to the Law and handled appropriately.

It would certainly be foolish to sacrifice one’s life in an effort to protect perishable material possessions. Giving up money or other valuables without putting up resistance may well remove any threat to life. On the other hand, the armed person may definitely want to kill. What then? When flight is possible, that is to be preferred. The Bible relates a number of instances involving Jesus’ doing just that. There was the time when certain Jews ‘picked up stones to hurl at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple.’ (John 8:59) Regarding another occasion, we read: “They tried again to seize him; but he got out of their reach.”—John 10:39.

By the way, being intolerant of the Pharisees has nothing to do with being physically assaulted or even insulted. The Pharisees were religious hypocrites. As his father’s representative of pure worship, Jesus properly exposed their double standards. Chasing those greedy merchants out of the temple was certainly the proper thing to do as the Son of God. I certainly don’t see the “do as I say, not as I do” actions from my study of the scriptures.

 

[i]

Hmm ... well, as far as potentially fatal traps go, as satisfying as they might be conceptually, in reality there's probably always a risk for unintended harm. Take that store owner for example. Electrifying something only a thief could reach is a great idea at first, but suppose a fire had broken out in the store at 2am. Fire department arrives, enters the store, and ... ooops!

I was thinking more along the lines of something amusing, for example something involving massive amounts of whipped cream.

Imagine a cocky thief being caught off guard by something like that. Heehee.

Furthermore, imagine how much money you could make by selling the video you're secretly making during the event.

 

[Mercutio]

jtr, when was the last time that crime rates in NYC actually went up?

One of the things that I wanted to get to in the "Bowling for Columbine" thread that I tried to start was the idea that a great deal of our fear comes from poor habits by those who create the news stories we hear.

Remember last summer in the US when there was something about a child being kidnapped basically every day on the national news... until the thing with the Washington DC sniper overtook it?

Yes, violent crime happens, but in point of fact, across the country, it's going down, not up, and when it does, it's generally not random crime. MORE violent crimes happened in the 80s than happen today. Part of the problem in our society is that, as more and more (visual) news outlets have become available, those in competitive markets become more and more lurid as a way to "distinguish" themselves from the competition. Of course, awareness of the lurid facts of violent crime seeps into our awareness, and we grow more and more paranoid.

Now, folks in NYC may genuinely have something to worry about. But does my brother, who lives in a guarded-gate community, in a wealthy suburb of Chicago that has its own internal police force, need to keep a 12-gauge at his front door to keep his WASPy neighbors, hispanic lawn-care-types or watchtower-bearing loonies that occasionally manage to get in at bay? I don't think so. Still, the man has a security system for his house that cost as much as my car.

If a homeless guy who just happened to stop beside Mr. 240VAC's door, say, to get out of the rain for a minute, was the one who got electrocuted, would you still support his anti-theft measure?

A couple years ago, IIRC, a guy in Chicago let loose with some big ol' handgun on a home invader. His aim sucked, and he happened to blow away a 9-year-old who happened to be sleeping in her bed in adjoining apartment. Whoops.

I'm not saying that no one should have guns or that guns are always bad, or that you should be allowed to defend yourself. That's just stupid. I am saying that a lot of dumb things happen in the name of home defense and sometimes, it ain't the criminal's fault.

 

[jtr1962]

IIRC crime rates stopped going up during the last term of the Dinkins administration(c. 1993). Murder rates are now at levels not seen since before I was born. This isn't to say things can't be much better, but at least I feel reasonably safe walking the streets in 90% of the city. As for the remaining 10%, this comprises mostly poor neighborhoods where I really have no business going anyway unless I'm trying to imitate Charles Bronson in the Death Wish movies.

To an extent you're right about poor reporting fueling people's irrational fears. Why your brother feels the need to keep a shotgun by the door is beyond me. I don't even consider the fact that I can't carry a gun to be that big an issue any more but if crime rates remained where they were in the 1980s I assure you I would be fighting tooth and nail to be able to do exactly that. And I would get proper training before setting foot out the door with a gun. Yes, accidents happen. This is mostly due to the poor level of training most home gun owners receive. I do in fact support some sort of rigorous firearms training for anybody wishing to obtain a gun, but I feel the decision to carry or not should ultimately be left to the individual, not the state. Would I personally carry a gun now? I doubt it since I can avoid dangerous situations like going out late at night. If crime were higher or I had to travel at night regularly I would consider it.

As for my support of the store owner's anti-theft measure, I'm not 100% sure exactly what was electrified and what wasn't. He may have only electrified the gates inside the store in which case anyone getting that far(other than the FDNY) would be breaking and entering. If the outside gates were connected as well then he belonged in jail. I know many times while walking I might accidentally brush against a store gate so electrifying the outer gates would be sheer lunacy. That being said, regardless of the actual levels of crime, people should be allowed to take proactive measures to protect themselves and their property provided those measures don't compromise the safety of innocent passers-by. The job of the police is simply to take a report after the fact. They obviously can't be everywhere, and I would rather the police go after murderers or rapists than patrol looking for car thieves anyway. Given that, self-defense is largely up to the individual, and I'm not sure jails are that big of a deterrent to criminals, either. I've often said that I would probably throw career criminals on an island to fend for themselves rather than put them in jail(or subject them to the death penalty). Jail should be to straighten out petty offenders before they become career criminals. If they fail to reform, then they forfeit their right to live in society for good. Sadly, no politician would have the balls to implement my solution.

Regarding the sensationalism in the news, I'm as disgusted by it as anybody. Watch the news on any given day and you would think the world is falling apart. Unfortunately, nothing much can be done about it without infringing on the freedom of the press. The only recourse we have is to change channels but it seems the American public has fallen hook, line, and sinker for this crap, which is why it continues to get produced. And why anybody seeking to gain lots of media coverage has only to hire a suicide bomber or two, as has happened recently in Iraq, or less recently only ten miles from me.

 

[Fushigi]

As for my support of the store owner's anti-theft measure, I'm not 100% sure exactly what was electrified and what wasn't.

And was their signage pointing out the danger? "Caution: High-voltage security system" or somesuch.

Given that, self-defense is largely up to the individual, and I'm not sure jails are that big of a deterrent to criminals, either. I've often said that I would probably throw career criminals on an island to fend for themselves rather than put them in jail(or subject them to the death penalty). Jail should be to straighten out petty offenders before they become career criminals. If they fail to reform, then they forfeit their right to live in society for good. Sadly, no politician would have the balls to implement my solution.

Drastic, but I essentially agree. Jail is not a deterrent. I don't know if it ever has been but it certainly hasn't been during my lifetime. Drop the career criminals & violent offenders on an island or other somehow isolated area, monitor for breakouts (would require outside assistance), and maybe feed 'em once in a while. Maybe.

 

[jtr1962]

And was their signage pointing out the danger? "Caution: High-voltage security system" or somesuch.

:lol: I doubt it. All joking aside, though, provided the system only affected those who break in, and there was adequate warning of it should the Fire Department ever need to enter the premises, there might very well have been no basis for criminal charges or a lawsuit. The government uses plenty of electrified fences(which are clearly labeled as such) around restricted facilities. Electrifying something completely inside the premises is probably legal. I can't find a link to it anywhere(this happened something like 15 years ago) but I think the guy may have just connected a power cord to the store gate(perhaps only the back gate, but maybe both) which is why he got into trouble. Probably the fact that the gate, even if it was in back, could accidentally be touched by a stray passer-by may have had something to do with it. :bibber: :cursin:

 

[mubs]

I vaguely remember this incident. IIRC, here's what happened. The victim was a jewellery store that was repeatedly burgled. From the MO, it looked like it was the same burglar. Tired of this, the owner rigged up a live wire inside the store, with warning signs outside. The burglar broke-in, was electrocuted. He probably thought the signs were just to scare him off. The rest is as jtr says: owner goes to jail, burglar's family sues for wrongful death and wins.

The reason I remember anything of this at all is because it caused quite heated debate at the time as to the merits of the case. Personally, I feel the store owner had every right to do as he wanted inside his store. The outcome of this case is similar to would be burglars jumping in from an upstairs window, breaking a leg, suing the homeowner for compensation and winning.

Some things in this country are so twisted around it's unbelieveable.

 

[Santilli]

Couple quick notes.

Entrapment is what police do to criminals. It's when they give someone a chance to do a crime they are inclined to do anyway.

Giving a non-drug user, or dealer, a chance to make 100 million dollars on a cocaine deal, when he was never previously involved is pretty much text book entrapment. Offering a junky cocaine for a good price is not.

Keep in mind most criminal law is STATE law. So, know your state. Louisiana is the best for property rights over people(figures, it came from French law).

In most states a deterent to crime, such as barbwire, or electric fences, if adequate notice is avaliable, would not be considered illegal, and, the person that violates a person's property would NOT be culpable, or liable.

Check your state law, first.

Crime hasn't really gone down. Try taking the FBI violent crime figures, divide that by the number of people in the city in which you live, and you won't like the odds. 1 out of every 17 people is victim of a violent crime in San Francisco, each year. NOT good odds. I think Oakland was 1 in 14, LA 1 in 19, San Diego 1 in 22, and Walnut Creek 1 in 29.

The bottom line is we are catching the criminals after they do the crimes, and, keeping them from being repeat offenders, at least as many times as before. How? 3 strikes for one. We are catching, and incarcerating a record number of people. The penal industry is, IIRC, the fastest growing industry in Kalifornia. Why aren't we crime free?

Illegal immigration, gangs importing, and selling drugs, are happening faster then the police can deal with them.

It's a major problem, and could be easily stopped by limiting border access.

gs
PS The attorney for the electrocuted guy probably argued the posting was inadequate due to the lack of english literacy in the state of Kalifornia, a public fact.

By the way, STOP watching the news. I find my mental state improves about 200% with no tv, and not flipping to excite as a start up page.



My view on property and stealing stuff is you have to realize our world runs on jealousy. If you work at it from that direction, then you KNOW your new Mercedes is going to get keyed, or the windshield bashed, or the guy in front of you is going to slam on the brakes, duck under the dash, and let you hit him from behind(had this happen in San Francisco), accompanied by a girl with giant boobs, and a see through top walking down the same block, looking into the traffic, and leaning forward. She disappeared, and, they had someone in front of him, that resembled the other girl, who slammed on their brakes, trying to make it look like the guy did it because they did it in front of him.

In other words, do you want to own your possessions, or do you want them to own you? I'm much happier not obsessing about where to park my 50k street racer with the Imsa race car suspension. I don't have any tickets, and cops don't give me tickets for doing 73 when I was doing 53 on the freeway. I also have low insurance rates.

I'll buy another car when I have a fort to park it in, around the clock security, on house and car, and a guy to sit in the car while I go in to eat.

Otherwise, I drive my beat up Toyota, great stereo slightly hidden, with alarm, and no one breaks in. I did have some guys try and steal the license plate, and caught them doing it.

Own things, don't let them own you.

gs