Howell
Storage? I am Storage!
http://e3living.com/catalog/45/energy_saving_lighting?gclid=CNOrt7Ct0o8CFQGdPAodBzpl9Q
I couldn't remember which running thread to put this in.
I couldn't remember which running thread to put this in.
14 Watt Dimmable Neptun Bulb-Shaped CFL
- Thread starter Howell
- Start date
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
Here's their whole line of dimmables. No bulb-shaped dimmables available in 5000K but they do have a couple of spirals. This is about the closest thread we've had where something like this might fit.
What would really be nice are some reasonably-priced (i.e. <$5 each) small-base dimmable CFLs for use in things like chandeliers, preferably in 5000K. Unfortunately, it looks like I'll have to wait a few years for LED to become mainstream before that happens.
What would really be nice are some reasonably-priced (i.e. <$5 each) small-base dimmable CFLs for use in things like chandeliers, preferably in 5000K. Unfortunately, it looks like I'll have to wait a few years for LED to become mainstream before that happens.
Stereodude
Not really a
None of the e3living.com links are working for me.
ddrueding
Fixture
Broken for me as well.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
Seems they're working on and off. Five minutes ago they didn't work, now they are.
udaman
Wannabe Storage Freak
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2006
- Messages
- 1,209
14w equivalent to 60w incan, too weak for anyone with bad eyesight, or those of us aging (me on both accounts). 14w are fine when you have 3 or 4 of them together in a light fixture (excepting the fact they burn out way before rated lifespan in any enclosed, 3 or 4 of them increases your chances...read typical...light fixture, resulting in possible fire hazard).
Couldn't remember, really? I think it's more like a psychosomatic response to an aversion to reading any thread posts with more than a few sentences...either that or you're just being disingenuous like Clinton
. Go read the OP on my thread, then click on the links and you will see...et viola, a discussion of why CFL are dangerous, potentially deadly fire starters if the Motion sensor you try to use a CFL is not one of the correct type, that a CFL labeled to work with motion sensors, will be compatible with.Dimmable yes, works with specific type of motion sensor...who knows, who wants to gamble, Howell can be our resident guinea pig? Who wants to gamble their life and home will not be destroyed by fire from an incompatible CFL used in a motion sensor controlled socket???
This is why CFL cannot at present replace incan., they just don't work well in too many situations at present, they are not a 100% simple replacement. Same as enloop batteries, until they come in every popular size, not just aa/AAA, then they represent a niche market (large one, I'll agree on) for which banning alkaline serves as an inconvenience.
LMFAO, try a few decades jtr, right around the time Cree announced the prototype 200lm/w 300ma LED which will be promoted as going into 'mass production' (see my post on the Samsung SSD 120/100MBs thread) in 'about' 18-24mo. lol, lol.
Would not work well in standard designed chandeliers that are designed for imitation 'candle' incan bulbs. Would require entire removal of existing chandelier and purpose designed chandelier as an expensive replacement...well I suppose at Wal-Mart you could get a cheap piece of plastic/metal junk made in China for reasonable low price
.Damn, jtr, not you too, go read the links...am I the only one capable of reading links??? Why would anyone need 'bulb' shaped unless you have these in an open fixture/clear plastic/glass housing? Most fixtures have opaque shielding for the bulb so you don't see them directly /and or are under a shade/barrier(when it's working,
http://e3living.com/node/193
http://e3living.com/node/226
Ok, they are not in stock yet, but still)...there is a fake 24w (100w 'equivalent'...1500 lumens is the quoted output, which means in reality it's 90w compared to incandescent, yet I'll bet my arse the CFL casts a higher level of glare resulting in eye strain and uglier 'hard' shadow, as compared to standard soft white 1650 lumen 100w ican, not even super soft 'reader' incan bulbs) dimmable spiral CFL shown to be 5000k. I may order one of these to try (and a wonderful 2700K) for dimmable incan sockets in some lamps.24 Watt Dimmable Spiral - Daylight 5000K (100 watt replacement)
100-1313
NEW! Now taking orders for Dimmable Daylight (5000k) Compact Fluorescents from Neptun.
Let the sun shine in with the New! NEPTUN DAYLIGHT 24 Watt Dimmable Compact Fluorescent Lights! With its small size (only 4.625" long), extra long life and low dimming capability you can put this 24 watt spiral just about anywhere. Replace your 100 watt incandescent lights on a dimmer switch with this Super Efficient 24 Watt Smooth-dimming CFL and you can save even more when you dim.
You are confusing LED/CFL color casts with CRI @ such and such Kelvin...go back to my thread on 'should there be a ban on incandescent', click on 2nd link (no I'm not going to post the entire thread, you'll just have to waste your time and read the damned thing, lol). Though I’m sure jtr will defend his beloved LED’s as newer LEDs can render colors more accurately, and have less obtrusive color casts…still not as good as incan bulbs however
.Audi HID's headlamps, not the prototype LED's
, have a blue color cast but they are truly ~4,000K, which is to say the majority of the output is in that range, but if you look at the actual spectroradiometer graph of the light spectrum, you'll see a small peak in the blue region, which your eye readily pick up at night. Same problem with Kelvin rating on many of these LED's & Fluoro 'replacement'..they look like crap compared to the CRI of 100 on an incandescent bulb (yeah, I know jtr doesn't like the yellow cast of incans, but I don't care, I don't spend all my time staring at light bulbs, I want to see realistic color rendering on things that are lit by the light source... I don't want to see oddly blue color shifted red steaks...ewwww!)Well the site was working just fine for me earlier in the day...yet another ominous omen for me, livin la...what's the Ricky Martin song, eh never mind???
I will say, the Neptune line has one semi-important mention I haven't seen with cheap Chinese (or other countries that make cheap CFL, like Hungary, Malaysia etc) CFL, is an End of Life circuit that will break the power before (hopefully, with cheap electronics do you have to trust your life on them not to start a fire? How many fires are started by incandescent bulbs when the filament breaks, lol, lol?
Random joke:
How many Paris's does it take, for a non-standard non-medium bulb socket light fixture, replaced with the less common fluoro/LED replacement unit (yeah, jtr, they are made in China so those LED driver circuits will fail, and unless you want to generate tons of carbon greenhouse gases you falsely believe are being saved by wonderful incan replacements of poor quality manufacture/design...open your eyes to 'reality', not fantasy in the 'lab' scenarios) to screw in a light bulb
?Considering how clueless Paris, she'd throw away light after light that failed, just buying an entire new light fixture.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
I read that link. While I certainly agree with many of the points made (the need for higher power factors in particular), the fact is thanks to capitalism, we will always be stuck with cheap, sometimes dangerous, usually less than optimal, goods in the absence of regulation. Just look at the latest from China, for example: Toys linked to date-rape drug recalled. So yes, we need a bit more regulation here to make sure these things either work with dimmers or motion sensors or in enclosed fixtures, or are clearly labeled if they can't. And if this drives the cost of these CFLs higher, and we want to get people to switch to them anyway, then we either need to ban cheaper incandescent bulbs outright, or tax them until the playing field is level. This isn't rocket science. Apparently the author of that article fails to understand basic capitalism. Cheap, sub-par goods are one thing I really hate about capitalism. They represent enormous waste of resources, labor, landfill, etc.
As for fires, remember a few years back that colleges were banning halogen floor lamps because they set curtains or papers on fire? And this was when they were operating exactly as they are supposed to. At least the CFLs have to fail before they might start a fire. Fact is incandescents are inherently way more dangerous than CFLs, even the cheap ones, just by nature of how they work, especially those high-hats. Putting something which generates 75 or 100 watts of heat into a small hole in a ceiling is just asking for trouble.
Also, since the lumens are clearly on the package nobody needs to guess what size incandescent CFLs will replace. I'd like to specifically ban CFL-makers from putting anything related to incandescent-watt equivalency on their packages. Let the public recalibrate their eyeballs in lumens. I'm tired of hearing "watts of light" anyway. Last time someone said something about "100 watts of light" I said wow, that's about what a streetlamp puts out. They said no, they were talking about a 100 watt bulb. I said that a 100 watt bulb puts out only about 8 watts of light energy. I tried to explain further but gave up. The concept was evidently too difficult for them. At least with lumens you have a fighting chance of getting through.
Interestingly, the author of the article mentions that he would use linear tubes in many of the same places he wouldn't use CFLs. Funny, maybe linear tubes were a better answer than CFLs all along but of course I never said that?
When the ballast doesn't need to be replaced whenever the tubes are, and when the tubes last 3 to 5 times as long, then things can be made in a much more robust manner. But then again I've been saying all along we probably should have went straight to linear tubes after the last energy crisis. If we want to talk bans, how about just a complete ban on screw-base bulbs? It's really the disposable mentality which screw-base bulbs engender which leads to crappy CFLs.So then just ban AA and AAA alkalines. That covers about 95% of the market anyway. And a lot of the C and D market is flashlights. With the coming end of energy-sucking incandescent, there is just no need anymore to use Cs or Ds in order to get decent runtime and decent output. So Cs and Ds are probably on their way out anyway.
I agree. I mentioned the lack of 5000K bulb-shaped CFLs because the thread was about bulb-shaped CFLs. I personally don't care. I actually think the spirals look cool and high-tech anyway.
The problem is LED manufacturers are in an efficiency race (much as auto makers were in a HP race, at least until gas prices broke $3/gallon), so other concerns like color rendering were secondary. Efficiency gains will start to slow down soon. We're already at 100 lm/W in production with 150 lm/W coming next year. We really can't easily get that much past 200 lm/W with blue plus YAG phosphor whites (max. theoretical according to Nichia is around 263 lm/W). My guess is once we're comfortably past 150 lm/W we'll start to focus a bit more on consistent color and good color rendering. No reason LEDs can't be better in that regard-it's just that for the moment manufacturers want to get a comfortable margin ahead of HID and fluorescent efficiency before focusing on those things.
Maybe it's just my eyes, but to me the 2900K incandescent looks like the worst of the bunch. :x There isn't even a white point. I didn't do any post-processing on any of those images. They are all exactly as my camera took them. So where is this "great" light from incandescents you're talking about? And people actually light their houses with these things???? I probably should have included a few different shades of white LED just to be fair, but I bet even the bluest, crappiest cheap China eBay LED would look better than the incandescent. I even tried to give the incandescent a fighting chance by using my 2900K halogen desklamp, not a crap 2400K chandelier bulb. So it may be a black body with a defined CRI of 100. So is a toaster heating element faintly glowing red. That doesn't make it a good light source.
Yes, 3500K flashlight or projector-type incandescent make very decent light sources, and are two-thirds as efficient as CFLs, but there's the issue of bulb life measured in tens of hours, at best.
Joe, when you do the raw conversion a white reference point on the macbeth (or other) chart should be used. Obviously the incorrect settings were used for the incandescent shot. Ideally it is better to use ~4000K or higher (filtered) incandescent lights to reduce the noise in the blue channel caused by the excessive gain needed at low color temperatures.
FWIW, I use a couple of different methods to achieve neutral color balance — a 77 mm Expodisc plus or a small WhiBal card set. The former is used for incident light and the latter is used relectively. (Neutral color balance is often undesirable, but that is another topic.)
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
The white balance on my camera was set to sunlight for all the shots. That's also why the daylight shot looks somewhat blue. I was trying to show the different light sources closer to how my eye sees them, rather than attempting to have neutral color balance. Here is another version of the same thing where I did actually attempt color correction on the incandescent shot as shown below (the other sources are still uncorrected):LunarMist said:
As you can see, the incandescent now looks much nicer, but IMHO no better than the high CRI 5000K fluorescents look uncorrected. However, the uncorrected result is closer to reality. I have trouble distinguishing blues and purples under incandescent. And darker shades of either often appear as black or brown to me.
That's exactly the point I'm trying to make here but you articulated it so much better than I ever could. Because the eye has to shift blue so much to attempt to get things to appear normal under incandescent lighting, the end result is that it feels weird to me, and gives me headaches. I'm guessing that's the noise of the blue channel doing that? Anyway, due to this problem I even found the old-school halophosphor fluorescents preferable.
Of course many people prefer 4000-5000K for general indoor lighting, where the CRI and MI are not usually as important as seeing a reasonable amount of blues in fabrics, books, etc. I'm overly sensitive to blues and easily annoyed by weird fluorescent and especially LED lighting.
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
Found this recently:
http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/lifi-lamp-technology-primer
Very good lamp life for such a high output device, 20,000 hours pretty much negates lamp replacements (this is currently being used in some rear projector TVs).
http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/lifi-lamp-technology-primer
Very good lamp life for such a high output device, 20,000 hours pretty much negates lamp replacements (this is currently being used in some rear projector TVs).
ddrueding
Fixture
Very interesting, but not very efficient. I was considering something along those lines for indirect room lighting (compact, high lumens, high CRI). Looks like the added space of an LED array is still worth it for the power savings.
Stereodude
Not really a
Some of the fluorescent lights look nice in your pictures JTR, but are any of them CFLs? Aren't they all long tubes?
Stereodude
Not really a
Has anyone tried GE's Daylight CFLs? They have a 6500K rating and a CRI of 82.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
Yeah, they're all long tubes. They're all 32W 4-foot T8s except the Chroma 50, which are 40W 4-foot long T12s. We have mostly linear fixtures here with the exception of three chandeliers and about ten various table/outdoor lamps (only around a dozen standard screw-base bulbs total in the entire house last time I counted, and they're all CFLs now). One reason I prefer linear tubes over CFLs is the wider availability of different color temps and higher CRIs at reasonable prices. I noticed last time I was at Home Depot they had 10-packs of both 5000K and 3500K T8s with 85 CRI for around $20. Not bad at all. Availability of the 3500K and 5500K CFLs there is sporadic at best, and it takes about 3 of the $2 14 watt ones to equal one of the linear tubes in terms of light output. It takes about 12 once you account for the differences in lifetime.