32GB limit and Baby AT motherboards

[Tannin]

Seems to be my week for asking advice.

In the workshop we have a data transfer computer. At present it's a crappy old SiS chipset integrated motherboard with video and a Cyrix 6x86MX-233 and it's nailed to the wall. Attached to it is keyboard, mouse, monitor and floppy drive, plus two IDE cables.

It doesn't have a hard drive, just a shelf where we can plug any drive in to wipe it clean before resale; plug two drives in to do data transfers without tying up one of the workbench slots, or plug in a suspected virus-infected drive as secondary to boot off one of our own drives and scan the suspect.

We use it all the time, maybe three or four times a day.

Problem is, it has the 32GB limit, so it's getting to be a real pain to have to find another box to use with 40GB and 60GB drives. (Well, it ain't a box, it's just a motherboard nailed to the wall, but you know what I mean.)

What can we do to upgrade it?

Speed is a non-issue. The 686MX-233 is plenty.

Cost is not really an issue, but it would irk me to spend any significant amount of money on such a basic task. Will if I have to though.

Convenience is an issue, and time-efficiency even more of one. We do not want to have to piss about with stupid ATX power switching crap: i.e., right now it has an AT PSU with a real switch - switch it on and it is on, switch it off and it is off, no questions, no infuriating five second delays, no possibility of Windows going haywire and refusing to switch off unless you pull the cable out.

What are the options?

Is there an AT form board I can buy that does >32GB?

Is it practical to do some kind of mod to an ATX PSU so that it is hard-switched?

If I got a Promise card or some such, would that introduce a boot delay or bring up other issues?

Bear in mind that it is very useful to see what the drive is detecting as: often we use this machine for testing suspected dud drives, so we need to know if this 30GB drive (for e.g.) is actually coming up as 30GB, not some weird number.

Total boot time is an issue too: very often we want to wipe a drive clean because someone is standing in the showroom waiting for it.

And various other matters that I can't remember right now.

 

[Mercutio]

The last quality board I'm aware of in AT form factor was a Tyan BX model. I don't remember the model number. Probably didn't support more than ATA66.

An ATX switch is a tiny little guy that just hangs off the board. Being what it is, it actually represents less of a bulk of cabling less than AT. That's the direction I'd suggest going (yes, I know it's annoying for you. But in either case, you're going to plug it in and leave it).

I'd be very uncomfortable with the stresses (ie, gravity) involved in using a Promise or other PCI card that wasn't also screwed down somehow.

 

[Mercutio]

Oh, and DECENT ATX power supplies have a hard switch on the back for shutting things down.

 

[timwhit]

You can hard wire ATX power supplys by crossing two of the wires on the 20-pin ATX connector. I can't remember which ones but someone around here has to know. That way you could use the switch on the back of the power supply just like an AT switch. Throw any recent board on the wall with the cheapest CPU that will work in it and you should be good to go.

Have you checked to see if there is a BIOS update for the board that you are currently using?

 

[LiamC]

Tony,

I have an old Promise Ultra-100 PCI IDE card (non RAID). Promise released a BIOS for it last month that gives the thing 48-bit LBA so you can use drives > 128GB. I use it in my Athlon 650 - sorry 550 - box and it only adds a few seconds to the boot sequence.

If you can find/already have one, this should solve all your probs and you won't need a new mobo. You just need to be able to set the BIOS to boot from SCSI first.

If you already have a 98 or NT/2K image on your util drive, plug the card in (leave BIOS as per normal) boot and install drivers. Shut down change boot sequence to SCSI first, plug your util drive into the promise card and your good to go. Using an external card is a great way to move NT/W2K boxes across to a new motherboard if it uses a different chipset as well without having to re-install.

 

[Buck]

Some well thought-out ideas so far. I would, however, love to see a picture of the setup that Tony is presently using; nailed to the wall and all.

BR

 

[P5-133XL]

Does the MB have PCI slots? If so then simply get a promise ide card. It's cheap, simple and it will bypass the 32GB limit without changing the MB.

 

[Tannin]

Yes it does, Mark. Sounds like that's the simple answer. Easier than modding a power supply. Saves the cost of a board too. I'll just have to see if it works OK in practice. (Boot time, ease of use, decent drive detection reporting from the Promise card.)

As for the mounting, Mercutio, it's only a crappy old board that hangs in Windows about once every two hours and was unsalable in that condition and out of warranty, but OK for this job - mostly doesn't go into Windows, and only has 2 16MB SDRAMS in it. So if it blows up one day - who cares? I have plenty of crappy old boards. But I might silastic the Promise card in if it seems too loose.

ATX, even with a switch mod, is a pain in the arse: we both hate waiting for things, and with ATX you still need two switches, the real one and the stupid soft switch that doesn't work half the time. I despise ATX power switching. I am a human being: I am more important than the machinery. If I say "off" I want off RIGHT NOW! No questions, no talking back, no waiting. Me human, you computer. Me boss.

And I'll take a picture of it just for you, Buck.

 

[Buck]

And I'll take a picture of it just for you, Buck.

Thank you kind sir.

 

[i]

Hmmm ... I've seen an ATX motherboard recently that had surface-mount power and reset switches right on the motherboard itself. Just small momentary push-button switches. They were strictly secondary ... most normal people would have switches on the case attached. The board manufacturer was touting them as an attraction for hacker types.

Mercutio, do you remember this motherboard by any chance? I'm pretty sure I read about it via a Slashdot article within just the last month or so, but I can't remember any details about it. It wasn't that anyone was drawing attention to the switches ... they just happened to be one of the minor included features.

 

[Buck]

Appropriate avatar i.

 

[Mercutio]

Last Article about motherboards on Slashdot was their spastic reaction to the new Abit Max board. The one with every single possible thing integrated on it and eight IDE ports.

Might've been that one.

I also understand that those cheapo removable drive bays, when connected to the PS connector on a board, instead of the HDD LED, can control power state really easily. Turn your PC on and off like a car.

 

[Cliptin]

Last Article about motherboards on Slashdot was their spastic reaction to the new Abit Max board. The one with every single possible thing integrated on it and eight IDE ports.

Might've been that one.

I also understand that those cheapo removable drive bays, when connected to the PS connector on a board, instead of the HDD LED, can control power state really easily. Turn your PC on and off like a car.

Unless I missunderstand you, that will not work. You need a momemtary switch. When I put an atx power supply into my AT case I had to use the reset switch for power up. I used the turbo switch for reset and just hit it twice.

 

[i]

Appropriate avatar i.

Thank ye.

 

[i]

Last Article about motherboards on Slashdot was their spastic reaction to the new Abit Max board. The one with every single possible thing integrated on it and eight IDE ports.

Might've been that one.

Thank you Mercutio!

Wow, I would have been annoyed about that for ages. It seems to happen to me so often these days ... I'll remember seeing something on the web a month or so ago, but I won't remember where, and never find it again.

Anyway, here it is:

http://www.abit.com.tw/abitweb/webjsp/english/news/en_0203131/en_0203131.htm

If you scroll way down to the bottom of the page, under "ABIT Engineering Features", you'll see the surface-mount power and reset switches right on the motherboard.

Neat!

 

[Bozo]

When I want a ATX computer Off, I pull the power plug or the on/off switch on the power strip.

Works every time.

Bozo

 

[Cliptin]

Speaking of ATX weirdness: I once dropped a case screw onto a motherboard and on one of the bounces the screw made contect with something and turned the machine on. Very disconcerting!

 

[Mercutio]

Y'know, we never did get that picture, Tannin... Not that I'd be able to see it anyway.

 

[Buck]

Y'know, we never did get that picture, Tannin... Not that I'd be able to see it anyway.

Thanks Mercutio, I've been waiting for that too.

 

[Tea]

OK, OK, I'll see if I can't remember to shoot it today.

Bought a Promise card yesterday, just the cheapest one, ATA-100, 128GB limit, removed the metal backing plate thingie, plugged it in, switched off the mainboard IDE controllers. It seems to work fine, at least so far.

Mind you, it's a bloody ripp-off - AU$67 before tax for a hard drive controller. What the hell. So long as it does the job.

 

[LiamC]

Tea,

go to the Promise site and get the latest BIOS and driver files -> this gives you 48-bit LBA in case you wanted to plug one of the 160GB MAxtors into it...

 

[Tea]

Thanks Bill. I'll bear that in mind for when I need it. I had figured that, seeing as we have only ever seen one >80GB drive here, and that that unit ws the one I bought for myself and sold to Sol, the need to do much in the way of data transfer on >128GB drives would be a long way away. So long, in fact, that we would need a SATA controller to do it anyway. Hence my decision not to bother with a more expensive card.

I probably should have hunted around for something cheaper but functionally equivalent, or perhaps specified an ATA-133 card because it might be usegful for benchmarking, but this was something that Westan distribute and seeing as we already order from them three or four times a week it was easy.

But nice to know I'm future-proof with it just the same.