802.11A or G?

[Mercutio]

In my life as a consultant I run into 802.11B equipment with something like annoying frequency. It's downright common, truth be told.

I'm given to understand that 802.11A is the "next great thing" in wireless - 5GHz band where practically nothing else can cause interference, 54Mbps speeds, and absolutely no compatibility with 802.11B.

Now I see 802.11G - 54Mbps in the 2.4GHz band, compatible with "B" hardware, and somethnig like 2/3s the cost for hardware.

I brought home a 802.11G AP from Circuit City tonight. It was surprisingly cheap, only $140 (it's a 4-port switch, too). Config was easy... and unless my laptop is about 10 feet from the AP (which I mounted on the wall in the hallway between my living room and bedrooms, my signal strength is less-than-802.11B-nothing.

Configuration is exactly like every other Linksys AP, if anyone cares.

Anyone tried "A" equipment yet? Anyone know what the hell the point of 54Mbit @ 2.4GHz is? Did I just get a bad AP?

 

[blakerwry]

does the 802.11G signal scale the same as 802.11b? as in the slower the network speed, the further your usable distance...

 

[Mercutio]

It's supposed to. It's not working that well for me. My signal drops from 100% to like 20% when I move 2 feet from where I'm sitting right now.

 

[double bit CRC error]

dang! antenna problems?

 

[e_dawg]

Ouch. I've heard of problems being further away than the next room, but 10 foot maximum range is atrocious.

I don't know what to say about wireless. I was so intrigued at the possibilities when I saw wireless 802.11b solutions selling for < $150 US... but then I read the opinions of WiFi users. It's disturbing how many people either have slow performance or limited range -- and the unlucky ones are saddled with both afflictions.

I can't imagine 802.11g being significantly better unless it uses a different transmitting/receiving technology than 11b. At least 11a has the hope of superior range and less interference at 5 GHz.

 

[Jan Kivar]

Maybe there is some interference. Merc, didn't You have some sort of "wireless A/V transmitter/receiver"? Most likely it's on the 2,4 GHz frequency.

Jan

 

[Pradeep]

IIRC there was an article in the Inq talking about how the .11g standard hasn't really been finalised, especially in relation to interoperability. So what ever the manufacturers put out right now may not work with other manu's equipment. I'm awaiting the introduction of a combo .11a/.11b PC Card.

 

[Mercutio]

Yes Jan, I do. I turned it off before I even plugged my AP in. At this point I think my neighbors' cordless phones might be the problem. I got up at 4:00 and tried again, and things seemed to work a bit better.

 

[Fushigi]

My results improved by moving my AP up high on the wall (well, shelf). With it roughly at PC-component level I got poor signal strength but strength is much better with the AP up about 7' off the floor.

b seems to be very dependent on the surrounding environment/interference. I couldn't tell you if a & g have the same problems.

- Fushigi

 

[blakerwry]

I noticed that in a new office building that my gf's parents are moving to they had a wireless access point mounted on the wall where the wall meets the roof... maybe this is a good place to mount them...

 

[blakerwry]

i meant where the wall meets the ceiling, of course....

 

[SteveC]

Does either A or G have stronger encryption than B, or are they all weak?

 

[Handruin]

I noticed that in a new office building that my gf's parents are moving to they had a wireless access point mounted on the wall where the wall meets the roof... maybe this is a good place to mount them...

That's how they are mounted at my work. Close to the ceiling...

 

[Mercutio]

My AP is set on a wall about 4 inches from the ceiling.

Yup, 802.11G still has crappy encryption.

 

[Mercutio]

Took the AP back to the store, got a different one.

Things now work MUCH better. 80%+ signal strength in my whole apartment. Since the physical installation didn't change, I guess maybe there was an antenna issue?

54Mbit is almost tolerable for file copying, too.

 

[blakerwry]

54MBit wireless sounds like a dream......

questin here Merc... does the access point operate more like a hub or a switch (ex: is the 54Mbit shared between all computers or does each computer have it's own dedicated 54MBit connection to the AP?)

 

[Mercutio]

802.11B and G at least are "shared media". There's 11 or 54Mbit to share no matter how many clients are using that particular AP.

So I guess that would be "hub like".

 

[Jan Kivar]

Took the AP back to the store, got a different one.

Things now work MUCH better. 80%+ signal strength in my whole apartment. Since the physical installation didn't change, I guess maybe there was an antenna issue?

54Mbit is almost tolerable for file copying, too.

I'd bet that the antenna was damaged. It doesn't show, but if the core's cracked/broken/folded, You'd have similiar issues.

Jan

 

[CityK]

I can't imagine 802.11g being significantly better unless it uses a different transmitting/receiving technology than 11b.

What I read is that it uses the same type as 11a.

At least 11a has the hope of superior range and less interference at 5 GHz.

Less interference, but not range...signal power attenuation is greater for higher Fq over distance....just think of your classic "loud car stereo drive by" scenario - what Fq do you hear first and last ? ..... why the low booming bass frequencies of course.

CK

 

[e_dawg]

Less interference, but not range...signal power attenuation is greater for higher Fq over distance

Hmm, you're right, attenuation varies with frequency... I thought that the reason why you could use those 2.4 GHz phones down the street from your house was due to the high frequency. I guess not.

 

[Pradeep]

Well I ordered a combo 802.11a/b PC Card. Should be good in airports.

http://www.multicap.be/uk/Orinoco_ComboCard.shtml

 

[Adcadet]

my best friend just got me the linksys 802.11b wireless router w/ 4-port switch, and I added Linksys's PCMCIA nic. The router is located in the second floor bedroom, and I can get a "low" signal (two bars out of 5 in WinXP) in the basment and very good (4 bars) in most rooms on the first floor. Since I'm unlikely to ever have more than one or two wireless devices hooked up at a time (two laptops seems a bit much for me and my fiance for the next couple of years), I'm not worried about the 11 mbps max. I also don't do much filesharing. Do I really need to be able to surf at >1mbps? Seems most websites can't really keep up anyway.

I'm pretty happy with the wireless thang. Setup was a bit of trial and error (daisy chaining the new one off of my old 4-port router), but it seems to work great now. No drops at all.

It helps that my university is adding 802.11b WAPs all over the place. My public health student lounge has one, as will the medical school lounge and all classrooms I'll be in next year.

 

[Adcadet]

I still need to setup some sort of security on my wireless network. Perhaps I should turn 64 or 128 bit WEP on. Last time I did that my laptop couldn't get out on the net despite it showing a connection to the WAP. Anybody have experience with Linksys/WinXP stuff?

 

[Mercutio]

WEP is a trivial hack. You should be looking at IPsec instead.

 

[Pradeep]

I noticed that the Orinoco supports 802.1x security, including EAP with MD5. Sounds like they finally sorted out security problems? Anyone have experience with it?

 

[Mercutio]

EAP = external source for authentication, besides that which is built into your data link protocol. It's not a replacement for VPN-anything, but rather an enhancement for making sure you are who you say you are.

 

[Adcadet]

WEP is a trivial hack. You should be looking at IPsec instead.

what is IPSec? How do I turn it on? Do you have a link?

 

[Mercutio]

Turn it on in Network Connection whatever > Properties > TCP/IP Properties > Advanced > IP Security > IP Security Policy > Secure Server, in Windows 2000 or XP.

 

[Adcadet]

hey Merc - I don't have anything like IP Security. I have IP Settings, but nothing under that tab looks like "security policy." Is that left out of WinXP Home Edition, which I'm running?

 

[SteveC]

hey Merc - I don't have anything like IP Security. I have IP Settings, but nothing under that tab looks like "security policy." Is that left out of WinXP Home Edition, which I'm running?

Yes, IPSec isn't in XP Home.

 

[Pradeep]

I have a spare legal copy of XP Pro that's not for resale. Would it be against some MS law to send this to Adcadet for no charge?

 

[Mercutio]

Pradeep: Probably, yes. License transfers depend on the specifics of the license in question, but the local Not for Resale copies I've got (from Purdue and Indiana U) indicate that the license simply CANNOT be transferred to a 3rd party.

Adcadet: Wow. XP Home is eXtra-Puketacular. 5 network connections, can't upgrade 2000 Pro, can't join a domain, and now it doesn't do IPsec? Doesn't your school have a technology agreement with MS like the rest of the Big 10? Been to a campus bookstore lately?

Does XP Home do VPNs at all?

 

[Pradeep]

The software in consideration is the $50 XP Pro collectors edition with baseball bullC#### that a lot of us obtained. Never been used since I got my lubbly Action Pack sub.

 

[Adcadet]

I believe I can run third party VPN software. The U of Minnesota uses Cisco's stuff, and it at least installed OK.

And yes, we do have an agreement with MS, though I think this may only be for MS Office. I checked their webiste a bit, and can't find anything about MS Windows.

 

[Pradeep]

Well I got my Orinicoc comobo card today, I'll get to try it out at LAX in acoupled of weeks with T-mobile hotspot 802.11b connectivity.

 

[Mercutio]

The terms of UM's agreement are identical to that of Purdue's. You should be able to buy VERY cheap upgrade copies of XP Pro from your bookstore.

 

[Adcadet]

really Merc? Cool. I'll look into that.

 

[blakerwry]

The terms of UM's agreement are identical to that of Purdue's. You should be able to buy VERY cheap upgrade copies of XP Pro from your bookstore.

how much is cheap?

I havent been to the college bookstore to look at software since... since... I was in highschool.. lol...

 

[Mercutio]

The local campuses of both IU and Purdue charge $5 for copies of software.

At IU, the requirements are strict: A student may purchase a single copy of any microsoft business product, but must show school ID and other picture form, sign two documents agreeing to the license and is not allowed to purchase that software again. However, students and employees may purchase copies of full versions of products.

At Purdue, the requirements are different: A student may purchase multiple copies of a selection of software, but only upgrade versions. The one exception is that Purdue employees (I am a Purdue employee, if only the partliest of part-time) can purchase nontransferrable server CALs in unlimited numbers.

Purdue's license says that software is licensed it perpetuity to students. Employees of Purdue or IU, or students at IU, have time-limited licesnes that have to be refreshed annually.

 

[e_dawg]

Just an FYI... Here is an interesting product for 802.11b networks -- a signal strength booster to address that annoying signal drop-off:

http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=33&scid=38&prid=478

Perhaps they will have something for .g soon.