Advanced Diagnosis Needed

[Piyono]

My primary hard drive (Maxtor DMP60 40GB) had been acting up for the past few months; sometimes it would spin down out of the blue, crashing my system; sometimes it would refuse to spin up when I was booting. I had beed putting off buying a replacement but the situation was getting worse so a few days ago I went out and purchased a new, 250GB Maxtor MaxlineII drive, with the intention of swapping it into my external enclosure as a backup drive, while taking the existing backup drive out of the enclosure and putting it into service as my new system drive..

Precisely when I started the switchover is when my DMP60 decided to crap out altogether. I am currently in the throwes of a minor catastrophe and I'm having trouble determining which component(s) is(are) at fault.

Here's what I know so far:

• The DMP60 had two partitions, SYSTEM and DATA1. After several failed attempts to recover the DATA1 using various DOS-based recovery utilities, with DMP60 on IDE0 and MLII on IDE1, I popped DMP60 into my external enclosure and copied the data onto my friend's notebook with XXCOPY on the first try.

• Several times while POSTing, DMP60 was ID'd as a "!!!Maytor!!!" drive, or something like that. I don't know if this is a sign of a failing drive or a failing BIOS.

• The new drive (MLII), when I first plugged it into the computer's power supply, would prevent the computer from even powering up unless I disconnected my other hard drives, but that's changed... Now it completely prevents the computer from powering up even if it is the sole device using a Molex plug. Plugged into my external enclosure the drive works fine.

• I attempted several recoveries using SpinRite 6. My earlier atempts were foiled when SpinRite reported that it was unable to read some critical information or other off the BIOS, and suggested that the BIOS may be 'blocking' the information. More recent attempts to run SpinRite were successful, albeit futile as CHKDSK (which I ran when XP booted for the final time) wiped out anthing that SpinRite might have been able to recover. Interestingly, Spinrite did not find any errors after a level 5 run.

• Other recovery software I ran reported IDE controller tests failed, although I'm not sure what to make of such warnings, primarily because I forget what software issued them.


Wherein lies my problem? Power supply? Motherboard? New hard drive? Without spares of any of the above my testing capabilities are limited. I'm hoping the collective expereince of SR members can help streamline my troubleshooting and help me get back on track.


Heeeellllllpp!
*ahem*



Piyono

 

[MaxBurn]

I would say it's the old drive as you suspect, plus something else that may have killed your old drive.

Try plugging in the power on the new drive with out the ribbon cable attached, do you get into the BIOS and the drive spins up? Yes= motherboard problem. No= look for a power supply issue.



I have one really neat dead WD1000 drive on my shelf somewhere that I keep around because it's failure mode is amusing:

It will detect in the BIOS with a word that looks like a cartoon swearword and then about seven of the ASCII style happy faces! Kid you not....

Your drive detecting as "!!!Maytor!!!" reminded me of that.

 

[mubs]

Your old "failing" drive, and the new one had repetitive problems inside your system, but both worked on the first try in the external enclosure.

That leads me to believe the problem is with your system. It could be the power supply is failing in your system; since the external enclosure is powering the drive, whichever drive is in it works fine. BIOS or disk controller failures are pretty uncommon. It could be that capacitors on the mtherboard have dried out or are leaking (a visual inspection can confirm this; done it yet?). If you can borrow a power supply for a couple of hours at least that component can be verified to be working or not.

 

[Bozo]

I've had weird problems that was fixed with a BIOS upgrade or just re-installing the old version. Might be worth a try....

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[Piyono]

MaxBurn,

Powering up (solely) the MLII with no data cable is precisely what I did. The system blinks on and off in an instant but the power light stays on, leaving me to either unplug the mains or to hold the power switch in for 5 second in order to power down.

Mubs, you make a good point but I don't have another working power supply on hand to test this claim. My motherboard (Gigabyte GA-7N400 Pro2) is barely a year old so *aged* caps wouldn't be likely. Still I did a quick visual inspection and a sniff test and everything seems to be in order.
It's a bit late in the day for me to go power supply shopping but I'll see about getting one first thing in the morning.

I know there exist PCI diagnostic cards but are there any boot-time utilities that are able to give a motherboard a once-over and tell if any components are failing?


Piyono

 

[Piyono]

Also, Mubs, if you'll notice, I have two good reasons to suspect that the DMP60 is failing. First, the wacky BIOS detection names, and second (which I neglected to mention) is the fact that there are two other drives in my system which have been powered, obviously, off the same power supply for as long as the DMP60 and have never presented any issues.
Does it not stand to reason that any devices using the PS's 12V rails would suffer similar fates if the PS was at fault?

Piyono

 

[Piyono]

I've had weird problems that was fixed with a BIOS upgrade or just re-installing the old version. Might be worth a try....

I'll give it a shot.


Piyono

 

[MaxBurn]

MaxBurn,

Powering up (solely) the MLII with no data cable is precisely what I did. The system blinks on and off in an instant but the power light stays on, leaving me to either unplug the mains or to hold the power switch in for 5 second in order to power down.

Mubs, you make a good point but I don't have another working power supply on hand to test this claim. My motherboard (Gigabyte GA-7N400 Pro2) is barely a year old so *aged* caps wouldn't be likely. Still I did a quick visual inspection and a sniff test and everything seems to be in order.
It's a bit late in the day for me to go power supply shopping but I'll see about getting one first thing in the morning.

I know there exist PCI diagnostic cards but are there any boot-time utilities that are able to give a motherboard a once-over and tell if any components are failing?


Piyono

Leaning toward the power supply then.



Failing caps have a slightly domed aperance to their tops from pressures inside, soon to follow is an explosion with confetti or just some leakage. Not to mention causing power problems.

 

[Handruin]

For examples of failed caps...see my pics of my MSI K7T pro2a:

http://www.handruin.com/link_img/pc-death/

 

[Piyono]

Hey, Handy, I'm familiar with the sight of failed caps, but thanks for the refresher.


On with the saga:
With my data safely backed up I went about manually replacing system files until I could boot from DMP60 again as I have some work that was due on Friday and figured it's worth getting this installation up and running again if I can run Illustrator long enough to send off some PDFs. Among the casualties was my SAM file which means my profile is toast.
Illustrator is loading, which is good. Outlook is not, which is bad. I can't access my client database or the email message that contains my latest revision instructions... Wouldn't be a big deal if I could repair or reinstall Office but installation fails quite early on in the process. I'll have to wait till my friend comes over with his lappy so that I can open my PST file.

Anyway, I've been up and running with two hard drives, floppy and DVD and nothing's exploded or beeped very loudly or shut down unexpectedly. Come to think of it, I'd been running a SMART monitor for the last month or two and it never really gave any indication that DMP60 was on the fritz. Aside from the wacky ID names and the scattered random shutoffs (ok, and the recent corrupt system files) there's no REAL indication that DMP60 is ailing. Is there? Where do wacky BIOS IDs come from? The drive or the BIOS?


Piyono

 

[Piyono]

The two newest casualties of my negligence are my current Outlook.pst file and a WD 800JB. The outlook file because it got wiped out in the shuffle and the drive because I just pulled the ribbon cable while the computer was powered on.

I suppose I could be having a worse day, but I cannot imagine how.


Piyono

 

[mubs]

Sorry you're having a bad day, Piyono. Sometimes when it rains it pours. Just hang in there.

Also, Mubs, if you'll notice, I have two good reasons to suspect that the DMP60 is failing. First, the wacky BIOS detection names, and second (which I neglected to mention) is the fact that there are two other drives in my system which have been powered, obviously, off the same power supply for as long as the DMP60 and have never presented any issues.
Does it not stand to reason that any devices using the PS's 12V rails would suffer similar fates if the PS was at fault?

You certainly have a point there. But AFAIK, the 12V rail is used by the drive motors, not electronics, which use the 5V rail. It just may be that the other drives have a more robust design of the controller electronics (more caps, etc.) that allows them to withstand the supposed pwr supply issues better.

 

[Piyono]

OK, Recovered, the Outlook files. Now I'm left with a brain-dead WD800JB. I've spent the last half hour calling every number I could find on the Western Digital website hoping to sweet talk someone into selling me a replacement logic board or issuing me an RMA with the guarantee that my own repaired drive will be shipped back.
No luck yet.

Ontrack will be happy to fix my drive for a paltry US$800. Hmmm... ouch.


]-[

 

[Piyono]

Now, what I am about to tell you (O, internet community at large) I give over in the strictest of confidence, as I could have a hard time living this one down if the details find the wrong ears...

Remember WD800JB? As it turns out it is I, and not he (drives are male, right?) who is "brain-dead". Ok, maybe that's going too far. Clearly I'm brain-alive enough to be typing this, but I appear to be suffering, or did suffer from some sort of lapse of cerebral stability.

I had removed WD800JB from his external housng and installed him in my box during my scramble to secure my data. This involved indicating his heirarchal position on the IDE channel, acheived by shorting two of his jumper pins with a jumper cap.

It was this jumper cap which eluded me early this morning as I was attempting to re-mount WD800JB as an external drive, and which continued to elude me until just a few moments ago, when the novelty of seeing me pitifully hunched over my workbench (read: TV tray) finally wore off, and it stared me right in the eye, saying "hey, you frickin' moron! It's me! ME!"

Thank goodness for sentient jumper caps.
I now claim my title as World's Biggest Schmuck.


Piyono

 

[Bartender]

We have a new WBS champion! A round of drinks on the house and many more for the champion!

 

[Piyono]

We have a new WBS champion! A round of drinks on the house and many more for the champion!

[at BT's prompting Piyono enjoys a quiet chuckle at his own expense]


OK, back to business...

My system may be humming along innocently now, but there remain some answers at large:
• The strange case of Dr. DMP60 and Mr. "!!!Maytor!!! DMQ40!!!!!!!!!" (currently no signs of identity crisis).
• DMP60 mysteriously spinning down mid-service (so far so good, knock on wood-print laminate).
• MxLnII's deathgrip on the +12V rail (presently occupying the role of Secondary Master and coexisting in symbiotic biss).

Piyono

 

[Piyono]

Yup, those are four questions I have up there...
Four questions remain unanswered...
Four... count 'em - four question...



Piyono