Any decent priced NAS units for home users?

[Handruin]

I've been thinking about what I need to make some decent backups of my system. I was considering using a second PC for backups, but then I thought a NAS solution could be more versatile.

I know linksys has a nifty little NAS solution, but it's on the pricy side going for $467.99 at buy.com and only comes with 80 GB of storage for that price.

For that price I could build/buy a very cheap machine and set it up as a file server and use it for more than a NAS solution, but that is more involved.

Has anyone used a NAS solution such as the linksys one? I'm not looking for enterprise class NAS, just a home unit. I've found a few articles on the web, but I was wondering if anyone has used one.

overview/review

 

[Mercutio]

Beige boxes are pretty much always the cheap route. Still, last time I looked, Snap Servers started at $379 or $400.

Whole servers ($300 for 40GB) or empty enclosures are out there, too. Check ebay.

 

[Handruin]

Maybe I'm looking down the wrong path. I don't have that many machines to fully utilize a NAS solution, but I thought it would be nice to have storage outside my box. If only a 10/100 NIC could be connected directly to a 120 GB drive.

The snap servers look nice but the Snap Server 4100 is a bit out of my range @ $3000. (the 1100 is around $500 new)

Seems like the NAS solution isn't in the price range I'd like. Seems fair for what it is, but I'd like to spend less for it. (wouldn't anyone)

 

[Mercutio]

The other things you have to understand are, most NASes are just low-end Celerons or ARM-based computers running Linux. They're effectively PCs. You're paying extra for a "black box" that's a little harder to upgrade, and with some nice management software.

 

[Handruin]

I know they are cheap PC's in a box with a custom version of linux or something similar. I was hoping the home market was growing and maybe there were more options available.

 

[Mercutio]

Firewire drives can be shared to several machines at a time. Firewire is cool.

Looking around on google, though, I'm really surprised no one is selling an ethernet to IDE bridge. Seems like it could be a really sweet little product.

Wonder is cas would say about it...

 

[Buck]

Now we know who writes some of the viruses we must fight.

 

[Buck]

What the . . . how did this post end up over here?

 

[blakerwry]

lol

 

[blakerwry]

Handruin, why not just use an external HDD? could go from computer to computer very easily and you could probably get a large maxtor d540x for less than $1 per GB if you can find a sale or a rebate.

if you're interested in a NAS type of box I would check out the new features of Ghost 2003 enterprise edition.. it comes with a ghost server that can, at anytime (or on a schedule), remotely perform backups of any computer(s) on your LAN... quite neat.

of course if you just have 1 or 2 computers to backup a simple windows share based NAS would work with the built in winNT backup.

You know you could build one for <$300 + $1/GB for HDD space

 

[Handruin]

My search for cheap NAS isn't finished. A buddy of mine at worked sent me to Ebay to look at a NAS device.

He sent me to look at this unit from gateway. I have no eBay buying experience, but I'm considering buying this unit. It's much cheaper than the linksys unit and it fits in the price range I'm looking to spend. Only downside is that it is used. The current price is US $199.00 plus $35 S&H. It comes with a single 40GB hard drive and is expandable up to 4 x 80 GB drives.

The unit supports:
RAID Level 0
RAID Level 1
RAID Level 5
Hot spare support

Does anyone have experieince with a gateway NAS device, or has anyone read anything about them? This unit will only server 2-3 computers with very light use. I'm not concerned about performance since it will be used for nightly backups and basic file storage. I plan to run it in a mirrored configuration, perhaps with 2 80GB drives.

 

[Mercutio]

First of all, that machine is a rebadged Quantum Snap! server. That's the good news. The other good news is that it's in that sweet little 1U enclosure.

...but, did you look at those warranty terms? I'm not amused by that at all.

Remember that like I said before, you're paying for a PC running linux in a funny shaped box. Up to you whether that's worth $200something.

 

[timwhit]

Just remember 1U rackmount cases cost about $180-300 new. So that's not too bad of a deal. I wonder if you could use the case for something else later on?

 

[blakerwry]

why dont you just get a new mini-ITX barebones system for $200 and install mandrake 9.0 with samba and webmin?

You could probably cram 2 or 3 5400RPM drives in the case... plus the system could be used for other things... you can even hook it to your TV...

 

[Pradeep]

Ughh, a 7 day warranty? No thanks.

 

[Handruin]

Ughh, a 7 day warranty? No thanks.

On top of that, this person is charging $35 Shipping and handling. They claim that they will not refund shipping if the unit does not work, only the amount paid for the item. So if I buy it and it doesn't work, not only do I have to pay return shipping, I'm out $35. Thanks for bringing me back to reality.

 

[honold]

why dont you just get a new mini-ITX barebones system for $200 and install mandrake 9.0 with samba and webmin?

You could probably cram 2 or 3 5400RPM drives in the case... plus the system could be used for other things... you can even hook it to your TV...

it will only hold 1 drive

 

[blakerwry]

why cant you put a drive where one would normally go and then put another hard drive where the CD-ROM would normally fit? that's 2 right there...

 

[honold]

it's a slim (laptop) cdrom only

 

[blakerwry]

and a HDD wont fit? you can't make it?

 

[Howell]

and a HDD wont fit? you can't make it?

You might be able to dremel out the floor of the mounting bay. Even then you'ld propably have to mount the HD upside down. Then the structural integrity of the mount rails would have been compromised. Also the drive would probably physically interfere with the MB. It's hard to appreciate how small these cases are without holding them.

 

[Pradeep]

Did someone say mini-ITX?

http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/kisa444/

 

[blakerwry]

and a HDD wont fit? you can't make it?

You might be able to dremel out the floor of the mounting bay. Even then you'ld propably have to mount the HD upside down. Then the structural integrity of the mount rails would have been compromised. Also the drive would probably physically interfere with the MB. It's hard to appreciate how small these cases are without holding them.

well, looks like i was wrong. I guess it would be possible to use a laptop drive in that space, right?

and use a regular sized LP drive in its normal sposition. But then you really haven't got that great of a NAS...

 

[Handruin]

That's making it too complicated. The nice feature of NAS is that it is self-contained. Flip a switch and storage will be available in a few minutes. No need to hook up a monitor, mouse and keyboard, it's ready to go.

I'd rather build a regular box then mess with the mini-ITX setups. It's a good idea for space saving, but that isn't really my concern. Simplicity was the motivating factor.

 

[blakerwry]

well, once you have it setup there is obviously no need for a monitor, keyboard, etc... turn it on and in a minute you have remote storage.. just like you say.

 

[Handruin]

well, once you have it setup there is obviously no need for a monitor, keyboard, etc... turn it on and in a minute you have remote storage.. just like you say.

True to some degree. Allocating storage and access rights is done through a web based interface for many NAS devices. I would have to setup the mini-ITX box in some fashion that would be similar...but how? I would also like the option of RAID, but can I do this with a mini-ITX?

 

[blakerwry]

you could always install webmin.... great web interface to do about anything...

if you have ssh setup you can telnet to your box and do anything you can do from command line reletively easily.

and if you want to get VNC working you can use X windows.... however, that adds a bit more to fail... and a bit more memory... so probably best to just boot the computer to command line and not start X.

 

[blakerwry]

oh yes.. RAID... linux supports software RAID... infact i think that box on ebay used Linux software RAID on a stanard IDE controller...

I think webmin has the ability to let you setup and control software RAID arrays as well...

 

[honold]

red hat's installation has very simple raid configuration.

 

[Handruin]

red hat's installation has very simple raid configuration.

I've seen the redhat install, but can you create RAID volumes afterwards

 

[honold]

it's inifinitely easier to do it during the install, especially for bootable volumes

 

[Handruin]

Hmm... you got me thinking about them mini-ITX setups. So lets say I get this rig here:
http://www.caseoutlet.com/NWPc/checkercube/checker.html#MB

Which is the Checkercube-1215 for $219. This looks like it will hold two hard drives, and has integrated everything. The only other thing I need is ram, right? Crucial has a decent price of $38.99 for 256MB which should be plenty for a bare bones linux install.

So far the grand total is $258 minus the hard drives. This puts me in the same range as the NAS solution, now I'll look around for potential NAS software packages that could be used.

As I continue to look and read, I'm debating if the EPIA-M9000 is worth the few extra $. Seems like the EPIA-M9000 can even be a useful desktop setup.

 

[blakerwry]

you dont have any PC133 laying around? ..ouch, the price of PC133 has gone up since I last checked...

a friend of mine gave me 128MB or so just for the hell of it not that long ago....


hmm... if you want, you can look at the shuttle barebones systems...

sv25 goes for $189 on mwave.com ... all you need is CPU and RAM... but it can take an Eden, C3, Celeron, Coppermine, or Tualatin.... so it offers a little more upgrade potential if you ever want to use this system for more than NAS.

http://direct.mwave.com/mwave/doSearch.hmx?bop=and&scriteria=SHUTTLE+SV25+&UID=&CID=&Back=&n=1

If you can find an OEM celery they're dirt cheap(mwave sells the retail 1.0a for under $40)... or the VIA processors are sold for ~$30 I think.

 

[honold]

sv24/sv25 are noisy and have terrible, terrible psus that fail as sure as the sun rises.

trust me. i own 16 of them.

 

[blakerwry]

just out of cureousity, how many PSU's have failed? where they Achme branded or something else? Any guess as to why they fail?

 

[honold]

fans die, psu burns up usually.

i'd estimate 80% of them have failed over the course of a year.

the cpu fans aren't much better.