Back aches

The JoJo

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So my back has been aching for about 8 months now. Been to a few doctors, and finally found a physiotherapist (how do you write that?) (actually a Othopedic Medical Treatment, www.omt.org, capable fella) who can get me going again.

Since back/neck aches and discomforts are so common with people sitting a lot, how about you? Anyone else here having problems with their back?

Running 10km and training didn't fix my back, seems I really do need some help fixing this....
 

mubs

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Treatments are bandaids unless you address the root cause. Bad posture is often to blame. The Physio will probably teach you exercises that will condition your back to better handle the abuse we put them through - do them religiously. Get up every now and then and stretch. The trick is to listen to your body and back off when it starts complaining.
 

Buck

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Yup, I’ve had back problems for many years. Initially, I injured my upper back when I was a teenager, right under my right shoulder blade. Once in a while (a couple times a year) it would go spastic leaving me in a great deal of pain for a few days. Then, about a year and half ago, I injured my lower back. This was the worst pain I had ever felt, and it pretty much incapacitated me for several days. Since that time, my lower back has been a source of pain, and having a spare tire large enough to fix an earthmover didn’t help. Losing some weight helped, as did some visits to a Chiropractor and Kinesiologist. Recently, the pain has flared up along with additional sciatic pain. Anti-inflammatory medication helps somewhat, but the true helper is proper exercise.

You seem relatively fine in the exercise area, so you will certainly need a professional to check out your spinal cord for any problem areas. Keep in mind, that very specific back exercises cannot be replaced by general cross-training and running. There are some amazing Pilates maneuvers with five-pound weights (some with no weights) that make you stretch and exercise areas of your body you didn’t realize existed. Using all the muscles in your body to hold your balance, plus working one specific spot simultaneously can make you feel like a weakling even though you can run a marathon.

Also, stress and digestive problems cause lower back issues. As mubs mentioned, good posture is critical – sitting for most of the day is an enemy of ours.
 

Howell

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I once gave myslef a rib injury (seperation or fracture) that caused spasms in my mid-back. I tried a few months of ice, heat and anti-inflamatories in addition to some massages from some physical therapist friends. Eventually I had to get a cortisone shot to relax the muscles and then I had no further problems.

More recently I had lower back problems that were the most painful early in the day and a couple hours after a run (typically 10k). During and immediately after a run, while the muscles were still warm, is when it felt the best.

It started in July 03 and I ran on it until Nov 03 trying to get by on ice and ibuprofin. I then stopped and tried ice, ibuprofin and rest until Jan 04. I then went to the chiropractor until Mar 04. When that wasn't helping I stopped.

I meantioned the problem to a runner friend of mine and he showed me some excercises. Specificly the ones labeled "turbulence" and "sky-diver" (without the rolling).

I had had back pain for almost a year and these excersises fixed it in two days. Good luck!
 

jtr1962

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I've never had back pain to the point that it's very painful, but when I notice it starting I'll sleep in my workroom either on the table (wood composite) or on the floor (ceramic tile over concrete) for one night. Usually the table works but if it doesn't the floor certainly will. In both cases I sleep on top of a comforter to offer some minimal amount of cushioning. Sometimes sleeping without a pillow in a regular bed can work as well.

Ultimately, the best idea is to try to get up and walk around on a regular basis, or to change jobs if that isn't possible. A job that forces you to sit for eight hours a day is bad for your health on many levels.
 

Clocker

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Fushigi has the right idea, IMO.

For years my wife and I slept on a $350 queen size bed. It was basic but we were just starting out and it did the job. For a couple years now, my wife has been bugging me...she wanted a king size quality bed. Looking at the prices (well over a grand for a good brand) I thought there was no way it would be worth the money. But, $1,500 later I wake up much more refreshed and ready do go in the morning than I ever have. The difference is truely like night & day. I'm actually excited to crawl in the bed if feels sooooo comfortable. My wife's back problems went away too. Next my wife's wedding ring, it's the best money I ever spent.
 

Handruin

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I was in the same situation. I had a chepo bed and almost every morning my back would hurt when I woke.

We broke down and spent about $1000 on a nice new mattress and frame. Like Clocker, I don't regret spending the money. Plus it has a 15 year warranty, so that made me feel a little better about it.
 

mubs

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We bought a top-of-the-line consumer King mattress (Sealy or Serta) for $1400 ~ 9 years back. You're supposed to flip it frequently, which is a real nightmare to do with a king. They give these grocery-bag sized handles which rip-off in a year or two. Our mattress has a nice big depression where I sleep (my wife is petite and weighs just a little).

If I knew better, I'd have done one of two things:
a) bought 2 x extended fulls = king size. Would have been a piece of cake to flip / move
or
b) better yet, bought the SelectComfort. Unfortunately I didn't know about it then. It makes a whole lot of sense the way it's designed.

My biggest problem is the pillow. While my head is not oversized, it must be pretty dense because any pillow I buy starts to sag in a week. I'm bumbling along with a memory foam pillow that puts up bravely for a half night before giving in. I'm a side sleeper with broad shoulders and if I want my spine straight not crooked, it mandates having a high enough pillow that doesn't sag.
 

Clocker

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Our bed has the 20 year warranty and never needs flipping.

$1,500 seemed like a lot to me but you just have to remind yourself that you're going to spend about 1/3 of your life on it for at least 20 years. When you look at it that way, $1,500 bucks isn't nearly so bad. While we were shopping we saw beds that went as high as about $4,000!
 

Clocker

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BTW, I wasn't trying to brag about our bed or anything...I just want to let it be known that not all beds need to be flipped a lot. Nothing more. :oops:
 

Handruin

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I didn't take it as bragging, it's a good point. My bed came with the same design, no need to flip or rotate. Beds can be bulky and heavy, so not having to flip is a nice feature.

Some of those tempurpedic beds are $2000 and up. The bed we got has a 2 inch piece of that tempurpedic material on top, but the underlying bed is coils.
 

mubs

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Our bed has a 20-year warranty (or had). Back when we bought the bed, we were told (and everybody we know that bought beds) that the warranty was valid only if the bed was flipped at least 2-3 times a month. I guess if we didn't, indentations would result. Either you guys haven't read the fine print, or bed making technology has changed in the last decade, I don't know which.

If anybody is thinking of memory foam stuff, I'd advise proceeding carefully. There's lots of wannabe and me-too stuff that just doesn't have the strength. The key is foam density; most are in the 3-4 lbs range. Not enough, IMO. I believe the Tempurpedics are 5# density. I recently felt one of their pillows in a store, and it had the best support/resilience I've ever seen. Pillow cost was $99! But I guess you get what you pay for.
 

Handruin

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The bed I bought specifically said it does not require flipping. The warranty will cover sags or dents in the bed if they ever occur.

"Though rarely done, most mattresses require rotation or flipping to extend the life and wear evenly. Recognizing the difficulty that most people have in perfoming this mundane and even dangerous chore, King Koil has designed this mattress with exceptionally resilient materials, eliminating the need to ever turn your mattress again (unless you would like to)."

"During the first fifteen years after purchase, if your mattress is found to be defective, it will be repaired or replaced without any deduction for use. Delivery charges may apply towards a new mattress."
 

mubs

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I really wish they made them like this when we bought our bed :(

I did notice yours is a King Koil. I wonder if the usual culprits - Sealy, Serta, SpringAir, which seem to be the most common out here in S. CA, have changed their flip-n-rotate policies as well.
 

Fushigi

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Will - I haven't seen Select Comfort beds at discount so far, but they do offer sales once in a while. They mostly sell through stores in local malls so you can (hopefully) easily try before you buy.

At the time (early 2002), our king size model 4000 bed above cost something like $2700 including box spring, delivery, setup, and IIRC a comforter. So it was definitely not a cheap purchase.

The model 4000 is only one or two steps up from their low end. The higher end models had fancier controls (nice but not needed) and thicker pillowtops. I think a quieter pump was also available. We found the thicker pillowtops actually took away from the feeling of changing firmness; i.e. they detracted from the experience instead of enhancing it. A quieter pump would be nice but we normally make adjustments while awake so in the end it's not that big of a deal.

The box springs are different than you find with 'normal' mattresses. Basically they have to be hard surfaces. You could use a normal box spring and lay a sheet of 1/2" or thicker plywood on it to provide the required rigidness if you want to save the $ their box spring costs. We were moving from queen to king so we needed them anyway. (The box spring itself is really just a plastic box. Just a frame with a hard top & a fabric cover to make it match the mattress.)

The whole king size mattress weighs probably less than 25-30 pounds and can be safely folded while partially deflated to maneuver it around corners and such if need be. The top zips off and can be separately washed (or replaced with a thicker pillowtop or whatever). No flipping, of course.

The warranty is something like 15 or 20 years on the mattress & 5 on the air pump. The pump is external and sits under the bed.

One great thing is that I like a softer mattress than my wife, so our sides are at different firmness levels. And if you've done some unusual exercises lately, you can always adjust the mattress temporarily to provide a softer/firmer surface while you 'recover'. Very flexible.

When I made the purchase, there were other air mattress suppliers who had cheaper offerings. But the warranties generally weren't as good and most used vinyl instead of rubber for the air bladders. SelectComfort seemed to have the best rep and they were the only ones who only made beds. The other manufacturers made air beds in addition to exercise equipment, etc. I've no idea how the market is now.

I've never had a bed that showed up in a few mid-sized boxes before. :)

I'll ditto mubs' comments on memory foam.
 

Howell

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mubs said:
My biggest problem is the pillow. While my head is not oversized, it must be pretty dense because any pillow I buy starts to sag in a week. I'm bumbling along with a memory foam pillow that puts up bravely for a half night before giving in. I'm a side sleeper with broad shoulders and if I want my spine straight not crooked, it mandates having a high enough pillow that doesn't sag.

A couple things you might try:

Rotate through a set of pillows to give the batting time to recover. The batting is similar to that which is in sleeping bags. You are supposed to store sleeping bags unencumbered by a bag.

Also, When you wake up in the morning fluff the pillow. This will also help it recover.

I have difficulty with pillows too. I buy two cheap walmart pillows and rotate them. Then when they are both flat I stack them. This lasts about a year. S'ok though; I think they cost <$5.
 

jtr1962

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Heat might help. I sleep on my side most of the time like mubs, and if I face my back towards an electric heater set on low I find it helps if I'm starting to get any aches. Also, you might try elevating your feet. This seems to help me relax more, and when I'm more relaxed I'm less likely to develop any kind of joint ailments.

I can't say I've tried the expensive beds mentioned here so no comments on those one way or another. I'm sure they work more often than not. The design of my bed is just a mattress over a board. This seems to give a decent amount of rigidity while not being uncomfortable. It suits me but then again I've never really had any chronic back ailments, just occasional bouts when I move the wrong way.

I tend to think that not sleeping properly can exacerbate back problems so it's important to determine if you're totally relaxed while sleeping, and if not, why not. Often people go to sleep on a clock when they're really not tired. Bad idea. I don't go to sleep until I literally can't keep my eyes open so I'm usually pretty relaxed in bed. Sometimes, even when you're dead tired you can't sleep. Often a snack helps since people tend to get sleeply after eating. In fact, after meals is one of my favorite times to lie down. In certain cases nothing helps so it's best to just stay awake rather than tossing in bed. I was like that quite a bit for six months after 9/11. Once I got over it, my sleep habits returned to normal. And BTW, even though I realize that work schedules and such usually don't allow it for most people, I'd rather sleep a few hours at a time several times a day rather than 6 or 7 at once. It's really difficult to coax your body to move after it's been idle for so long. And my hands tend to hurt like hell after a long sleep thanks to my carpal tunnel and my tendency to put weight on them while asleep.
 

time

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mubs said:
My biggest problem is the pillow. While my head is not oversized, it must be pretty dense because any pillow I buy starts to sag in a week. I'm bumbling along with a memory foam pillow that puts up bravely for a half night before giving in. I'm a side sleeper with broad shoulders and if I want my spine straight not crooked, it mandates having a high enough pillow that doesn't sag.

You need a latex pillow. Dunlopillo is probably the leading brand, but they don't seem to have much presence in the US. Here, they sell two different densities and two different heights. There's no chance you could wear one out inside a year or two at least; most people get many years out of them.

On the topic of mattresses, pocketed coils are much better than traditional springing. It's the only sprung design that includes dampers as well as springs, and that can accurately mould to your body. (Of course, foam mattresses don't need damping and airbeds have hardly any inertia anyway).
 

The JoJo

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Doh, too little time to post here.
Anyways, I'm waiting for MRI. Actually, I'm waiting to hear if our companies health insurance will cover it, if not I'll have to pay for it myself. If it's a go, I'll be in the tube within a week. If not, I'll have to wait 6 months to get it through the normal health care system :(.
 

Mercutio

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Just remember: At least you live in a country that HAS a socialized health care system. In the US you'd probably just get a $10,000 bill and your insurance company - not a doctor - would decide whether or not it was necessary and therefore whether or not to pay that bill.
 

The JoJo

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You've got a valid point Merc, won't argue with that.

Hoping to hear tomorrow about the possibility for MRI. Gotta check the price for that also, if it's under 1k I'll probably manage it myself, otherwise I'll just have to wait (painfull option...).
 

The JoJo

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And going on vacation in a week, hopefully my back is better before the 12 hour flight. Can't imagine there being much place to lie down and rest in the plane, if my back starts to ache bigtime because of all the sitting.
 

Buck

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Sorry to hear that you're still in so much pain JoJo. Sitting on a plane will definitely make it worse, unless you can fly first class and lie down for most of the trip with some heavy sedation.
 

The JoJo

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Unfortunately no first class for me with my salary, so I'll just have to work on the heavy sedation part. And of course get my back into as good a shape as possible before the trip.
 
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