Browser Innovation

[Mercutio]

I'm sure we've all seen that Marc Andreeson, ex-netscape guy, thinks that there's no more room for browser innovation.

So, let's put the issue before the members here: Are there any areas were web browsing could be a better experience?

 

[honold]

i believe he's saying the opposite - there is tons of room for innovation, but nobody is innovating

 

[Prof.Wizard]

Skins.

 

[honold]

lol

 

[Tannin]

Opera and now Mozilla are doing nice, new things. Pop-up blocking, tabbed browsing, open in background, to name a few. Another little thing they could do would be offer much better editing facilities in forms (like the one I'm typing in at this moment) it would be simple enough to integrate a proper text exitor in such a way that the browser hands control over the text window to EditPlus or an intermnally-coded equivalent while you enter text and then passes the result to the actual browser when you hit "preview" or "submit". Also, it would log your entered text to disc as it goes, so that if you have a crash you don't lose you post, offer "undo", and so on.

 

[Mercutio]

When I read Andreeson's comments, I get the sense that he's very bitter about things. The statement that stands out, though, is

"There hasn't been any innovation on the browser in the last five years. And five years from now there won't be any changes"

I had some thoughts on the subject I posted to slashdot earlier but they came down to a couple of fundamental things:

1. We have fantastically powerful computers and incredibly stupid users. A browser with a little bit of AI for pattern matching might go a REALLY long way to solve the idiot problem. Case in point: Teaching people how to build a PC, I show them five different web sites where parts can be purchased. A half-dozen people literally come back to say "I didn't know how to use the site" - literally, that they couldn't follow the catalog metaphor that most commerce sites use. Even something as simple as finding a "Support" page can be a real trial for some folks.

2. Bandwidth throttling. Why doesn't my browser understand that, if I'm downloading an image at 1kb/sec, that my connection is slow, and perhaps downloading 15 other images, a java crapplet and a .swf is not the best thing that it can do?

Those seem to me like great ways browsing could be improved.

Prof, Moz and IIRC Opera both have skins support. I'm not sure how it helps the browsing experience, but it's there.

 

[Mercutio]

Oh. Support for vi-like key key bindings in editboxes. Man, that would be sweet.

 

[blakerwry]

Oh. Support for vi-like key key bindings in editboxes. Man, that would be sweet.

dang it.. that reminds me, I forgot how to use VI....



anyway, I think the main browsers are great. Perhaps we've reached the limit of HTML and CSS... maybe it's time for a new technology to arrive.

webpages have come to the point where they are becoming less and less like notepad and more and more like the interactive programs that run on our windows desktop. What more can we ask for?

 

[e_dawg]

I would like it if someone combined the best (IMO) features of the available browsers -- URL aliasing, mouse gestures, tabbed browsing, pop-up blocking, image/cookie/form managment, and the IE browsing engine. So far, myIE2 has everything except for Moz's image/cookie/form management system (although it does have a very rudimentary form management system). Flash blocking would be great, too (or is that part of Moz's image management system)?

 

[blakerwry]

One thing Moz offers is the ability for developers to add plugins.. this allows almost infitite possibility for enhancements to the browser.

I guess one that that would be useful is spell check for the forums (heh). I'm a poor speller and I make typos when I am tired or have other things on my mind... spell check for forms would help me out. I guess this ties into Tannin's post about allowing 3rd party editing tools for form text boxes.

 

[Groltz]

It would be cool if this one lives up to the hype, should it ever be released.

 

[jtr1962]

Built-in html editing. Something along the lines where you can see how a page looks in the browser, maybe add a picture or a line of text somewhere directly in the preview, and then the editor adds the appropriate code to the web page. Alternatively, you can edit the pages in text only, and preview the results in the browser(or perhaps have two windows so you can do both at the same time).

 

[blakerwry]

Built-in html editing. Something along the lines where you can see how a page looks in the browser, maybe add a picture or a line of text somewhere directly in the preview, and then the editor adds the appropriate code to the web page. Alternatively, you can edit the pages in text only, and preview the results in the browser(or perhaps have two windows so you can do both at the same time).

I don't think the latest incarnations of WYSIWYG webpage editors are any different fromw hat you describe.. Have you tried frontpage 2k/XP or dreamweaver lately?

 

[Prof.Wizard]

lol

lol what?

 

[Howell]

Built-in html editing. Something along the lines where you can see how a page looks in the browser, maybe add a picture or a line of text somewhere directly in the preview, and then the editor adds the appropriate code to the web page. Alternatively, you can edit the pages in text only, and preview the results in the browser(or perhaps have two windows so you can do both at the same time).

arachnophilia

 

[honold]

It would be cool if this one lives up to the hype, should it ever be released.

i believe slashdot already killed that one, look at their thread on it

 

[honold]

lol

lol what?

skins being considered innovation

 

[Prof.Wizard]

skins being considered innovation

IE6's engine works so fast and smooth for me, the only thing I need right now is to customize its looks to various themes. No current browser I've seen has really many options.

 

[Mercutio]

IE has less features than any contemporary browser I'm aware of.

 

[Will Rickards WT]

I switched to Mozilla a couple of weeks ago from IE6.
It renders faster than IE. Startup is a bit slower, even with the keep in memory thing. I'd suggest everybody that uses IE to at least try Mozilla.

 

[Prof.Wizard]

I switched to Mozilla a couple of weeks ago from IE6.
It renders faster than IE. Startup is a bit slower, even with the keep in memory thing. I'd suggest everybody that uses IE to at least try Mozilla.

Maybe. I've tried IE, NN, and Opera.
IE has been the faster of all. Moreover I find it the most compatible with sites and add-on features like Acrobat's and Norton's toolbars.

I like its looks, its ergonomics, its engine... everything! I haven't tried Mozilla (which is prolly the best) to speak truth, but why should I change a winning recipe?!

 

[Will Rickards WT]

why should I change a winning recipe?

Winning is a matter of opinion.

Microsoft isn't going to fix the real bugs, the standards compliance problems.
And without those fixed you are forcing web developers to use hacks and what not to get their web pages/applications to work correctly.
Standards that have been out for years are still not fully supported.

 

[Prof.Wizard]

add-on features like Acrobat's and Norton's toolbars.

And Google. Forgot about that too. And who knows how many other are out there...

 

[Prof.Wizard]

Microsoft isn't going to fix the real bugs, the standards compliance problems.

This is something that upsets me too.

And without those fixed you are forcing web developers to use hacks and what not to get their web pages/applications to work correctly.
Standards that have been out for years are still not fully supported.

Hmm, isn't this supposed to be the other way around? Or at least, in this case blame web developers who use FrontPage, not MS browsers. I'll be learning DreamWeaver MX this summer because I want compliance and the fancy features Macromedia offers, but if my page is 100% standards compliant and can't be viewed correctly by IE, then it's not my problem.

BTW, could somene link me to pages where it is known IE isn't working? Frankly, I've never been to such a site so far.

 

[Will Rickards WT]

And Google.

I have it setup in mozilla that I just type the search in the address bar and click the search icon to the left and I get the google results. This is built-in to mozilla.

 

[SteveC]

Google Bar for Mozilla/Firebird.
Take a look at Mozdev, for all the extensions that are available. What does the Norton toolbar do, anyway?

 

[Will Rickards WT]

Hmm, isn't this supposed to be the other way around? Or at least, in this case blame web developers who use FrontPage, not MS browsers.

I can certainly blame the industry leader for lack of standards support in their product. Standards support needs to happen from browsers and web developers.

BTW, could somene link me to pages where it is known IE isn't working? Frankly, I've never been to such a site so far.

http://www.webstandards.org/buzz/archive/2003_02.html#a000138

 

[Prof.Wizard]

Thanks for the links guys.

Will, that link used to be also to LiamC's old site. I've seen it again. But still can't find pages where my IE shows them unviewable or erroneous.

 

[e_dawg]

Maybe. I've tried IE, NN, and Opera.
IE has been the faster of all. Moreover I find it the most compatible with sites and add-on features like Acrobat's and Norton's toolbars.

I like its looks, its ergonomics, its engine... everything! I haven't tried Mozilla (which is prolly the best) to speak truth, but why should I change a winning recipe?!

PW, have you tried myIE2? It takes the IE6 browsing engine and adds some of the best features from Mozilla and Opera (pop-up blocking, tabbed browsing, URL aliasing, mouse gestures).

 

[Prof.Wizard]

PW, have you tried myIE2? It takes the IE6 browsing engine and adds some of the best features from Mozilla and Opera (pop-up blocking, tabbed browsing, URL aliasing, mouse gestures).

Thanks.

I'll take a lookie.

 

[e_dawg]

The homepage for myIE2 is very slow (from Korea, I think). Better to download it from WebAttack: http://www.webattack.com/freeware/misctools/fwbrowser.shtml

 

[blakerwry]

I know some of us wish we had a good spell check while typing on forums.. well...

http://www.spellcheck.net/

Ima try this out here and see how it works

 

[SteveC]

Isn't that the same thing as just opening up your favorite word processor, using that to type and spell check, then copy and paste from there?

 

[Buck]

Witch still does knot guarantee proper spelling gamer.

 

[blakerwry]

Isn't that the same thing as just opening up your favorite word processor, using that to type and spell check, then copy and paste from there?

yes, but you can check from any computer word processing package or not...

 

[e_dawg]

Witch still does knot guarantee proper spelling gamer.

did that on porpoise you does?

 

[Mercutio]

Where's Grammar Police when we need him?

 

[Adcadet]

Built-in html editing. Something along the lines where you can see how a page looks in the browser, maybe add a picture or a line of text somewhere directly in the preview, and then the editor adds the appropriate code to the web page. Alternatively, you can edit the pages in text only, and preview the results in the browser(or perhaps have two windows so you can do both at the same time).

arachnophilia

I want to be able to go to my school webpage with my browser, and edt it if I see anything that needs changing using a WYSIWYG interface. After editing it, I want my browser to login and edit the HTML files for me.

 

[blakerwry]

there's a reason it's called a browser. What you want is an editor.. frontpage can do what you want I believe. CuteFTP w/ Cute HTML used to be somewhat of what you wanted...

 

[Will Rickards WT]

http://www.w3.org/Amaya/
Editor and Browser in one