Camera suggestions please?

[MaxBurn]

I am looking to move up to a better camera. I currently have a Canon S1 IS which is 3.2MP 10X zoom and has image stabilization. Right now I feel this camera falls short on image quality (has that purple edge around high contrast areas) and of course with 3.2MP it's hard to get nice enlarged prints.

Ideally what I am looking for feature wise is:
6MP (or better)
Around 10X zoom
image stabilization
Has to not be a hassle to use
Takes AA batteries (so I won't be stuck when rechargeables die)
Takes CF (not a must, just have some already)

What I am looking at:
-Konica Minolta DiMAGE 6.0 Model: Z6 - I read a couple reviews and was very hopeful with this camera, unfortunately seems to have a image noise issue. Still pretty much first on my list

-Nikon Coolpix S4: No image stabilization but takes decent pictures according to reviews.

-Fujifilm FinePix S7000 Z or the Fujifilm FinePix S20 Pro: these look like some high quality cameras. 6x zoom and no stabilization but along with a faster F2.8 - F3.1 lens would probablly be just fine.

 

[MaxBurn]

Hmm, if I lower my sights a little bit I wind up with this:

Sony Cyber-shot H1

Considering this is Sony's first foray into the increasingly crowded - and competitive - 5MP 'super zoom', whereas other manufacturers are already into their second or third generation models, the DSC-H1 is a very impressive, very mature product indeed. Handling is excellent, it's very fast and responsive and the results - even shooting in full auto mode with default settings - excellent. There are few cameras I can wholeheartedly recommend to both novice 'snappers' and experienced photographers, but the H1 is that rarest of beasts; a 'compact' camera with handling and control close to a DSLR, yet one that - even in inexperienced hands - can be left in 'idiot-proof' mode and trusted to produce the goods time and time again. And, like the S2 IS, it's capable of high resolution movies. Above all, the H1 is fun and easy to use, which means you will find yourself taking a lot more pictures, which has to be a good thing. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydsch1/page12.asp

With a good idiot mode and my not liking to play with my photos on the computer afterwards that's a big plus for me.


What is considered an adequate resolution for full page 8.5x11 prints? And 11x17?

 

[Santilli]

The first problem is the word "S*ny" :excl: :excl: :excl: :excl: :wink: :mrgrn:

Seriously, I'm thinking I would have loved to have an SLR, or movie camera today, to take pics of the 15 foot surf.

Suggestions?

gs

 

[Stereodude]

Seriously, I'm thinking I would have loved to have an SLR, or movie camera today, to take pics of the 15 foot surf.

Suggestions?

gs

Canon EOS Rebel XT

 

[LunarMist]

Scott,

Presumably you have checked the major review sites, i.e, DPReview, steve's digicams, imaging-resource, etc. I am not happy with any PS cameras and cannot ofer you any specific advice. However, I would not limit the camera to one that uses AA cells. The newer digital cameras are relatively efficient in battery use and make the cameras smaller and lighter. Buy an extra LiIon battery and you will be set.

 

[MaxBurn]

LunarMist: Yes that was something I was pleased to read in most of the reviews lately, some people are getting close to or over 400 pictures out of a couple AA rechargeables. Either my batteries are crap or my S1 IS isn't good at all on four AA rechargeables with maybe say 50 per charge. Will see. Anyway my reasoning is that if I am on a trip and run out anywhere will have alkalines I can pop in, I get you though less of a problem now.

Santilli: You have something against Sony in general, Sony cameras in general or something against this Sony camera specifically?


Anyway if the forum below is searched these guys are turning up with some really good results and more specifically don't feel you have to fight the camera to get them. They also have a coupon for Dell in there so I got the H1, a bag and a Sandisk 512mb for abouit $420, a good number and a good deal when the camera is being sold for $399 most places.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1009

 

[Tannin]

I have never owned a high-end point and shoot, at least not one with image stabilisation and 10x or 12 x zoom, but I have to admit to feeling rather uncomfortable with them. I've used Belinda's Coolpix 5700 a reasonable anmount (old technology now, I grant you) and was distinctly undewhelmed by it.

My feeling is that you just lose too much image quality at the extreme ends of the zoom range. Now that was designed a couple of years ago and the art has moved on since then, but it was a Nikon, and the top model in their range. I haven't been blown away by any of the handful of other recent high-end P&S cameras I've looked at either, though I didn't really get to try them out at all well.

For mine, around about 6X zoom range is the sensible limit. (If you look at the range of SLR lenses on the market, you will see that most have vastly less zoom even than this. There is a reason for this - it's just too hard to make a lens that works properly at such vastly different tasks.)

I don't know about IS on such small cameras. Simply haven't tried it.

I do know that I have been completely blown away by the vast difference in all-round ability my Canon 20D has brought. It is massively more capable. So much so that I now feel the need to buy another one to use for walk-around shots instead of (what I had planned) using one of my three good quality P&S units. (Two Nikons and a Canon.)

I think that you would gain an almost equal improvement with any of several very reasonably priced DSLRs: Canon 350D, one of the Pentax *ist range, the new Konica-Minolta, or whichever Nikon fits into your pice range. There is not going to be a great difference between any of those. Oh, and the Olympus ones have very dedicated fans too, though they can be a bit expensive.

With that said, I have had good experiences with Canon, Nikon, and Fuji P&S cameras. (Don't be put off by your current Canon, it's just asking too much of a little camera to use 10X zoom. My Powershot A95 (a 3X zoom model) doesn't suffer at all from chromatic aberation, and my 4X zoom Nikons had just a tiny touch of it. And both of these, note well, were mainly being operated through my scope, which is a lot of extra glass and a big ask of any camera.

Some P&S ground rules, liberally spiced with lies, distortion, and prejudice. (I'm good at those things, just ask Time.)

1: Don't buy anything with a Kodak badge. Not even if it works properly (which it won't). Kodak are very good at emulsions and photographic paper. Period.

2: If you possibly can, avoid the non-standard el-crappo storage formats: SD, XD, Sony MemorySuck, and all the rest of them. If it's not equipped with Compact Flash, it's a toy.

3: Look for something in the 4X to 8X zoom range. More than that is not going to cut the mustard. If you really want more than that, buy an SLR.

4: Don't expect a big camera to outperform a tiny thing. Given the tidgy sensors modern P&S cameras use, there simply isn't any technical reason to make them much larger than a cigarette pack. These fake SLR style P&S cameras are mostly about looking impressive in the shop. I'll back my tiny A95 to keep up with them for image quality any time.

5: AA batteries are a Good Thing. Not essential, but nice. The A95 goes all day on two sets of batteries - and I'm talking about an 8 hour day here, filling up three 512MB flashcards. (BTW, Canon are particularly good at low power, and at low noise too. (They are the only camera company that makes its own sensors, nearly everyone else buys in 3rd party ones. Oh, sorry, I forgot Sony. But see Rule 2. Also Rule 5.)

 

[Stereodude]

Why do you want a 10x zoom? What are you shooting where you are so far away that a normal 3-4x zoom won't take care of it?

I have 3 digital cameras myself. The first is a Canon Powershot A20 that I don't use any more. It was my first digital camera.

I currently use a combination of a Canon Powershot G6 and a Canon EOS 10D. Depending what I'm doing I use one or the other. The 10D obviously takes better quality images, but the G6 takes surprisingly good shots, has a high degree of control, and it's greatly reduced size and weight compared to a 10D and a camera bad of lenses really comes in handy at times.

 

[MaxBurn]

Stereodude: Mostly I like a big zoom to keep me completely out of digital zoom, don't like that quality reduction at all. I do find myself going into the zoom quite a bit here and there, especially out sailing or stadium seating etc. I was seriously considering a Nikon D50 and recycling my Tamron 28-105 lens and maybe getting another lens and then I realized that the camera is just huge and I never really felt that lens was fast enough being only a F/4-5.6 so then I was looking at a body and a lens or two ($$). Size wise a DSLR is getting into the luggable range for me, and my S1 IS while not a pocket cam is still small enough to be a quick grab away.

Tanin: Some excellent advice there. I would like to think I am moving away from the point and shoot and am going to use the aperture or shutter priority much more now to get a little more out of the camera. On my Canon I feel sometimes that I am just fighting the menus in the manual modes, and that's not fun at all.

IS just doesn't really get used on a P&S with a limited zoom where they can compensate with a fast lens and shutter so I guess that's why you haven't seen it as it's simply not on those cameras. IS on my S1 IS was a really nice benefit when you are on something that is moving though.

CF verses other media: I know CF can be quite quick (with newer high speed) but the module itself is pretty big for what it is compared to MS & others. I was excluding xD specifically as none of my multi readers support it, otherwise I didn't really care. Was there some reason you didn't mention for excluding everything except CF?

 

[Mercutio]

I really liked my Canon G-series cameras as well.

As far as CF, the main issues I see are that it is the best-supported flash format. Innovations and high capacities happen in the CF realm first, then funnel down to all the stupid formats, probably because the of the demands of the pros and semi-pros using CF in their dSLRs and the like.
I'm not convinced any of the other formats have any lifespan to them. They exist more because of some twisted need to have a smaller, cuter media, and they'll only last until someone else makes media that's smaller and cuter yet. Blah.

 

[Fushigi]

Perhaps WRT digicams CF is king, but SD is 'big' in the PDA world. The smaller formfactor is better for designers who are after every bit of volume they can squeeze out of a device. SD is fast and has decent capacity, although CF will probably always be the capacity leader since it simply has more space to cram stuff in to.

Beyond SD & CF, though, everything else is niche.

I think it'd be kinda interesting if a camera maker added a normal USB 2 socket & let you use thumb drives.

I have the original Canon PowerShot G1 from 2001 (I think) and still have yet to be able to convince myself I need an upgrade. Sure, the current crop of cameras have nice features but my picture needs aren't that great. And it'd be tough to get the wife to approve. :roll:

 

[e_dawg]

Yep, night and day between P&S and SLR. P&S are disappointing in so many ways: lens, AF, sensitivity vs noise, and flash performance are the big problems IMO.

Also agree that CF is NOT the only game in town and that SD is the other standard. SD is becoming the standard in compact digicams AND already is the standard in the PDA world. CF is starting to be niched out in digicams except for the bigger P&S and the dSLRs... and that's the way it should be IMO. CF is way too big for what you get. It is nothing more than a waste of space on a compact digicam. The space saved can be very significant -- you can double your battery capacity with it from an engineering design tradeoff standpoint.

Can't stand xD or MemoryStick, though, although I bought a Fuji P&S... only because I deemed it the least of the compact P&S digicam evils wrt AF and low-light ineptitude.

 

[Tannin]

Look, the thing with flash card formats is .....

(Excuse me Tannin. I will handle this one.)

 

[Tea]

Mate, it's like this. If cameras were computers, Hewlett-Crapard would use SD, and Compaq would come up with some stupid non-standard proprietary variation of it with extra low performance.

Oh, I forgot. XD is a stupid proprietary variation.

Basically, it comes down to cool, and the extreme lack of it.

Mate, there are only 14 really, really bad things you can do in this life. To whit:

1: Watch the Eurovision Song Contest all the way through.
2: Play Christmas carols in February. (Or October.) (Or June.) (Or November.) (Or December.)
3: Drive a Ssonyang Musso
4: Wear stripez and spots at the same time. (Unless it's a flag. See #9.)
5: Vote for George W Bush or one of his whimpy extraterritorial bum lickers, especially if said bum licker is named "Howard".
6: Willingly read all about the latest royal/celebrity wedding/divorce/scandal/birth/christining/dress/bathing suit. (Anywhere except in a doctor's waiting room or a fish and chip shop where you have no choice.)
7: Own a Compaq computer.
8: Use cable select to wire up your hard drives.
9: Fly your national flag in your front yard. (Unless you happen to live in a cool country, such as Sweden, Norway, Canada, or Botswana, and possibly not even then.)
10: Wear the red sock on your right (i.e., wrong) foot.
11: Say "Paris, France" and "London, England".
12: Own a Kodak camera.
13: Put sugar in tea.
14: Use any flazh card format that izn't Compact Flazh!

 

[Buck]

13: Put sugar in tea.

What happens when you put sugar in Tea? Does she go bananas?

 

[Mercutio]

Mate, there are only 14 really, really bad things you can do in this life.

I think there are more bad things than that. But of course, that's Tea's list, and Sock Puppets presumably have a very limited idea of "bad", unless they've been spending too much time with DrunkenBastard.

 

[Tea]

I think there are more bad things than that.

Of course there are. But Tannin made me cross out #15.

 

[Tannin]

Quite right. You would only have stirred up more ill-feeling, and insulted those too stupid ... er .. I mean "too differently opinionated" ... to know any better. And you are not to take this present conversation as an excuse to wheedle your former "15th way to be bad" into the conversation!

You hear me?

Disobey at your peril.

 

[Tea]

OK, OK.

I won't.

My lips are sealed.

Not one word.

I won't even think about ATI video cards and how evil they ....

(Tea!)



















(zorry tannin)

 

[LunarMist]

CF is basically dead in compact P/S cameras. Even the cheapo Nikon D50 now uses SD media and one would expect that the next Canon cheapo DSLR will use SD as well. The choices are based on size and compatibility between different cameras and devices the target user owns. Of course the high-end bodies will utilize CF cards for some years to come, since the physical dimensions allow for more capacity than SD and other types of media.

 

[JKKJ]

13: Put sugar in tea.

What happens when you put sugar in Tea? Does she go bananas?

However lousy my day, there's always something around here that makes me smile. Thanks Buck. and Tea.

 

[LunarMist]

12: Own a Kodak camera.

What if it is an old Retina IIa?

 

[e_dawg]

Basically, it comes down to cool, and the extreme lack of it.

Mate, there are only 14 really, really bad things you can do in this life.

<snip>

14: Use any flazh card format that izn't Compact Flazh!

I'm all for cool, but CF is not cool IMO nor is it practical or even advisable from an engineering design standpoint on digicams where compactness is a design goal. Using CF in a compact is like having a 3.0 GHz CPU with 256 MB of RAM, a 40 GB 5400 rpm HD, and integrated video -- completely inappropriate.

 

[LunarMist]

Going from CF to SD is not a good thing, except in the smallest of PS cameras. CF cards are more robust and easier to handle, especially with gloves on. The tiny SD cards get lost very easily when dorpped on the ground.

The lack of high quality PS digital cameras is a major probelm. In the days of film there some really good little cameras that were capable of producing high image quality. Now one must use an obsolote film PS (buying used is a tough option) or generally suffer from poor image quality. Now one must must buy SD cards in addition to the dozens of GB in CF cards any serious photographer owns.

 

[Tannin]

Bahhh .... A Compact Flash card is already so small that making it smaller again (XD size, for example) in order to "make the camera smaller" is a complete crock. Fair dinkum, you have to hold the thing in your hands, right? What you going to do next, take shots holding your P&S camera with tweesers?

Sure, there is a sensible requirement for really tiny storage cards for certain specialised applications (SD for PDA almost makes sense), but so far as everyday cameras go, it just doesn't need to be so small.

I hadn't thought of LM's gloves point, but finding a proper flash card if you drop it or put it down for a moment absentmindedly is a major excercise, finding an SD card would be ridiculous.

 

[e_dawg]

Well, let's think about the fact that many of the CF proponents here are not your typical consumer. Size matters in the consumer world.

I agree that SD is definitely small enough... xD is ridiculous. But CF is not that small when you're talking COMPACT digicams. A CF slot would take up 15-20% of the volume of compact digicams and 30+% of the volume of the tiny digicams. That's just too much wasted space.

Admittedly you don't need to save space on non-compact P&S digicams to make them even smaller, but even if you keep the camera size the same, one of the reasons why I think it is useful to have smaller memory cards is that you can reallocate space towards a larger battery pack, a larger lens, a larger LCD, etc. Space utilization is a HUGE engineering constraint. All of those other components crave space, and by minimizing the parasitic waste of space by the memory card, you can reallocate to other components where space results in significant performance gains.

 

[timwhit]

e_dawg: just tell them that they are too old to understand. Maybe if you had your reading glasses on it wouldn't be so hard to see the memory card, Tannin. :wink:

 

[Buck]

e_dawg: just tell them that they are too old to understand. Maybe if you had your reading glasses on it wouldn't be so hard to see the memory card, Tannin. :wink:

:lol:

As e-dawg mentioned in another thread: "Welcome to the 21st century my friends. Technology marches forward. Don't get trampled underfoot!" I stated that I would try my best, but you can be assured that there will be a measure of defiance. :cursin: :rant: :tounge: :bsmurf:

 

[e_dawg]

Nice emoticons

 

[LunarMist]

As e-dawg mentioned in another thread: "Welcome to the 21st century my friends. Technology marches forward. Don't get trampled underfoot!"

Technology is marching down the toilet in some cases, such as the 1.8" hard drives and SD cards.

Bah, humbug. I'll whomp them with one of my 1Ds MK II bodies in each hand.

 

[e_dawg]

I don't like those slow-ass 1.8" hard drives either. Those X41 tablet PC's are great except for the slow disk I/O.