Disclosing info to Paypal

[mubs]

I might be making my first transaction (purchase) on fleabay. I already have a Paypal account, and am wondering if it is safe to disclose my bank account info to Paypal to put funds into my Paypal account. The only option Paypal shows me is to transfer from a bank account, which is supposed to take 3-4 business days. Most sellers don't take credit card.

I've read horror stories of Paypal dipping into people's bank accounts whenever they felt like it, and of bank accounts getting wiped out because of security breaches. Maybe I don't have my facts straight.

Or should I open a new bank account and put just enough money in it that I want to transfer to Paypal and use that account instead?

 

[Mercutio]

The Paypal horror stories tend to involve Paypal freezing money left in the account. Paypal will do this at times for as little as a single complaint.

I use Paypal on both a home and a business bank account, and I can't say it's been a problem for me. But other people really do have valid complaints.

 

[Buck]

I'm in the same boat as Mercutio.

 

[sechs]

The Paypal horror stories tend to involve Paypal freezing money left in the account. Paypal will do this at times for as little as a single complaint.

Actually, a complaint is not necessry. I had PayPal freeze my account for "being suspicious." Right.

Basically, as long as you pay with a credit card (and have a good credit card), it will protect you from most malfesance related to PayPal. Never associate a bank account with PayPal. Never accept money with PayPal. Never keep money in a PayPal account.

 

[mubs]

That doesn't seem very realistic, Sechs. Most small sellers don't take credit cards. If I'm going to sell off some surplus things, I'm not going to sign up with a CC processor either.

I have a Paypal account because 2 years ago I bought something from a small business that only took Paypal. That transaction had nothing at all to do with fleabay.

I'm going to open a new bank account that will be used solely for paypal transactions, and keep very little money in it - just whatever I want to xfr into my Paypal account.

 

[Mercutio]

For a while I was using a credit processor that had essentially come into existance to process signups for porn sites on the internet. It was great - the fees were very reasonable as long as there weren't chargebacks (kind of a problem for porn sites).
But two years ago, Visa and Mastercard got REALLY strict about internet credit processing, and that option was taken away from me. I guess I could pay for a full-blown merchant account someplace, but honestly I don't have enough volume to justify anything like that.

 

[Tannin]

Any bank should be only too happy to set you up with a merchant account, Merc. Why should you have to pay for it? It's not like this isn't how those bastards gouge most of their money out of small businesses. The banks should be fighting over you and offering to out-deal each other.

 

[Santilli]

I have a Paypal account, but I emptied it, ASAP, and use it only for sold items being paid into the account. Too many times I've had fake emails that are so real, it's hard to tell if they are for real or not.

Don't trust it. I would also setup an account just to transfer funds in, our, use a credit card.

Haven't had any trouble, other then I don't think they like zero balance accounts, and want to charge you fees....

s

 

[Pradeep]

I might be making my first transaction (purchase) on fleabay. I already have a Paypal account, and am wondering if it is safe to disclose my bank account info to Paypal to put funds into my Paypal account. The only option Paypal shows me is to transfer from a bank account, which is supposed to take 3-4 business days. Most sellers don't take credit card.

Actually ebay policy has changed recently, sellers that accept Paypal as a payment method for an ebay transaction MUST accept credit card payments (basically if they have a Personal account, and are paid via credit card, they must upgrade to a business account). So you should be able to pay, without linking a bank account.

 

[mubs]

I don't know, Pradeep, maybe Ebay isn't enforcing it. I've seen numerous listings that say "Paypal or money orders only". The Paypal logo, though, depicts MasterCard, Visa, Amex, Discover, and CHECK, whatever that is.

Since this will be my first Ebay trans, I'm not really sure if I can demand payment by CC. I asked the seller some questions about the product, and haven't got a response yet.

 

[sechs]

Using the PayPal logo in an auction but not accepting credit cards has always been considered keyword spamming. If you win an auction with the PayPal logo in it, the seller must accept payment via PayPal with credit card; otherwise, they are a non-performing seller.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/paypal-payments.html?ssPageName=CMDV:AB

 

[MaxBurn]

I have used paypal for a couple years without complaint. I am only an ocasional user but it adds up:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=maxburn

I have my accounts linked and the only advice I have is to not hold more than a couple hundred in paypal, keep it low as possible if you are worried about it.

 

[DrunkenBastard]

Since this will be my first Ebay trans, I'm not really sure if I can demand payment by CC. I asked the seller some questions about the product, and haven't got a response yet.

It's not that you are demanding anything. Once you win the item, use the ebay checkout, pay with credit card via Paypal, and you are done. Anyone selling and taking payment via Paypal should have a business account. If for some reason they have just begun selling for example, they will not be able to access the funds you sent them until they upgrade to a business account.

 

[Howell]

I don't know, Pradeep, maybe Ebay isn't enforcing it. I've seen numerous listings that say "Paypal or money orders only". The Paypal logo, though, depicts MasterCard, Visa, Amex, Discover, and CHECK, whatever that is.

Since this will be my first Ebay trans, I'm not really sure if I can demand payment by CC. I asked the seller some questions about the product, and haven't got a response yet.

As far as the seller is concerned you will pay by Paypal. The CC transaction between you and Paypal will be invisible to the seller.

 

[mubs]

Thanks everybody, for the clarifications. Love ya all!

 

[mubs]

So if the seller says "I accept money orders or paypal only." that probably means all forms of Paypal, including credit cards. I find the world of Ebay weird; so many listings for "Brand New, unused" and deep in the listing body they say it's a refurbished item that's never been opened. Sheer misrepresentation. New <> Refurb.

 

[e_dawg]

Interesting. Last year I was buying a lot from ebay and just stayed away from merchants who only accepted a money order or PayPal via a bank account. It is good to know that they are requiring merchants to allow any PayPal transaction.

I thought that merchants didn't like CC-sourced PayPal funds because they took more of a commission and left the seller with less $.

 

[Pradeep]

I thought that merchants didn't like CC-sourced PayPal funds because they took more of a commission and left the seller with less $.

What happens is that a personal paypal account has no fees for payments received. Once they move to a business account - which a seller must have), they are charged a percentage for all payments (whether funded from a bank account or via credit card). This is generally 2.9% plus a flat fee of 0.30 cents per transaction.

 

[sechs]

More reasons that entrenched does not always equal good....

 

[mubs]

What happens is that a personal paypal account has no fees for payments received. Once they move to a business account - which a seller must have), they are charged a percentage for all payments (whether funded from a bank account or via credit card). This is generally 2.9% plus a flat fee of 0.30 cents per transaction. Emphasis mine.

So as soon as I sell something, I need to have a business account? Then where does the "a personal paypal account has no fees for payments received" fit in; typically I would receive payments only for selling. I'm confused. Pray elucidate.

 

[e_dawg]

More reasons that entrenched does not always equal good....

Well, I do like that PayPal was at one point the universal standard. Then they had competing payment services like BidPay and some sellers would refuse PayPal and only accept BidPay, which was annoying if you didn't want to set up multiple accounts with different payment services.

 

[Fushigi]

While I personally haven't had problems, many people have. I stopped using it a long time ago as I don't really do anything with eBay. eBay, BTW, owns PayPal.

From what I'v read PP is not responsive when you have problems, like if a buyer reverses charges even though you sent the goods. No phone number; just email and folks basically report inadequate results - form letter replies, no action on their part, etc. As such I would only use them if the transtaction amounts were small. For large transactions I'd definitely want cashier's check, money order, or regular credit card.

 

[Tannin]

The other thing about taking normal credit cards, from a retailer's point of view, is that pretty much everybody that has any disposable income worth talking about has a credit card. People who don't have credit cards tend to fall into three groups:

* People who don't trust plastic money and newfangled inventions generally. These are most unlikely to deal with you over the web anyway. They can make great customers, but you'll need to deal with them on a personal, face-to-face basis - which means that they can pay cash or write you a personal cheque. (They are, in general, good people to take cheques from too. Old-fashioned about money.)
* People who can't get a credit card because their payment history is so bad, or for some similar reason. 90% of them are real low-life types and can be relied upon to chisel every last cent out of the deal, and then expect you to provide free lifetime 24X7 support. On average, every time one of them gives you $10, it costs you $25 in time, bullshit, and general aggrivation.
* Kids.

So, essentially, the only ones you are mising out on is the kids, and if they want to buy enough they can always get Dad to use his credit card on their behalf.

Pay Pal .... who needs it? You are probably better off without it.

 

[Pradeep]

[quote="mubs]So as soon as I sell something, I need to have a business account? Then where does the "a personal paypal account has no fees for payments received" fit in; typically I would receive payments only for selling. I'm confused. Pray elucidate.[/quote]

Personal account is handy for anything other than buying/selling on ebay. i.e. grandma wants to send you cash for a birthday, I want to pay sechs for a private sale hard drive etc

 

[sechs]

Are you kidding me? You can pull the same schtick with a funded transaction as you can with a credit card backed one -- just no chargebacks.

It only works if you trust the person at the other end of the transaction. At which point, you might as well use a check.

 

[mubs]

NOTE: I only accept Paypal Cash or eCheck Payment. Please don't submit Paypal Credit Card Payment.

This is the first line in the description of a listing, in big, bold letters in red. Clear violation of PP policy, then.

And if I want to sell just one item on ebay in my whole life, and will take PP, then I have to accept CC if that's how the buyer wants to pay for it. That sucks.

 

[Mercutio]

Er, you could just take checks and no paypal.
Checks just take too damned long to clear.

I won't buy anything off ebay unless I can pay with paypal. I hate futzing around with other payment systems. Checks and the like are a problem for me.

 

[e_dawg]

Checks are definitely a PITA. Aren't people using e-mail money transfer (EMT) down in the US now? The tech savvy are starting to use it in Canada for things like:

• You owe a friend $20 from dinner a couple nights ago, but you won't see him for another few weeks
• You buy something from a friend and he (obviously) doesn't take credit card
• You and the other party hate writing and cashing checks
• e-Bay transactions (in Canada)

Check it out:
http://www.certapay.com/en/

Also along the lines of electronic payment, there is another type of e-payment designed for B2C e-commerce: online debit (also called Interac Online or online direct payment). It is essentially a substitute for paying by credit cards online for smaller purchases. It fits in with Canada's retail model where most Canadians pay by debit for smaller purchases at point of sale (e.g., groceries) and credit card for larger purchases (e.g., electronics).

http://www.interaconline.com/consumers_about.php

BTW, yours truly was involved in the online debit project with one of the Big 5 banks... those demo screens look familiar

 

[sechs]

I won't buy anything off ebay unless I can pay with paypal.

This is why PayPal can bludgeon sellers with all of these requirements, fees, etc.

 

[Mercutio]

Yes. Paypal fees are a terrible and onerous burden. Roughly in line with my state sales tax.

 

[sechs]

While PayPal does have a hopeless bureauacracy, does it build roads and schools?

 

[Mercutio]

Nope. But it also doesn't make me gather up the paperwork for every cent I've spent in the preceding three months, either. I don't live in fear of a paypal auditor, and most importantly, money that goes to paypal isn't going to the hillbilly sisterfuckers who run the state of Indiana. In this case I think I'm going with the pragmatic answer, and that's paypal.

On the other hand, I drive 12 miles out of my way to get gas and groceries in Illinois...

 

[sechs]

Consider moving to Nevada, Texas, or Alaska.

And how do you know that those "hillbilly sisterfuckers" don't get your PayPal money? PayPal is for everyone!

 

[CityK]

So I was looking at setting up a Paypal account the other day, and then I saw what mubs was talking about --> the disclosure of info stuff. So I thought about it - do I really want to disclose credit card info to them? Hmmm. I think not.

I'm not at all impressed with them and their continuing problems (very recent double billing).

For a largely unregulated company that already holds the dubious distinction of being unresponsive/uncooperative, I think it would be rather silly of me to insert the problem of an international boundry between me and recourse. As Tannin said earlier on:

Pay Pal .... who needs it? You are probably better off without it.

 

[Handruin]

I gave them a temp credit card through MBNA shopsafe. It has a max limit I can impose, and it can be canceled at any time. Worth considering for situations like these, and vendors you care not to leave with your valuable numbers...Even for my associated paypal checking account, I create an entirely separate account to remove its association with my primary checking. I done my best to limit any damages they could do.

 

[CityK]

A card dedicated to tasks like this, with a small credit balance, is indeed something I was thinking of as an alternative ... definitely something to look into for future considerations.

I do remember you mentioned, in the credit card thread that ran a while back, that you use something akin to a virtual card number. Is that the "shopsafe feauture" to which you refer? It sounds pretty good.

 

[Handruin]

Yes, the virtual credit cards are a feature known as ShopSafe through MBNA. If it's something you become interested in and you contact them about a card, make sure you ask if the card you want offers this feature. I'm not sure all MBNA cards offer this. It was surprisingly difficult to find information on this feature.

This feature allows you to create any size credit card with any expiration date (with some limitations). If you are done using a virtual credit card, you can close it out at any time without affecting your real card.

 

[timwhit]

I think you can do this with AMEX blue cards as well.