Friends problem PC... magic pixie dust strikes again.

[blakerwry]

Hey all... A friend of mine says that they are increasingly seeing blue screens while using their computer... increasingly having problems even starting their computer (windows freezes).... and now cannot even get windows to load at all....


So, being a kind friend, I take a look at the PC.... I took the Pc from their house and bring it to mine... fully expecting to have to do a backup, reformat, and installation of windows.


Well... I get the computer, home.. hook up a spare keyboard and mouse and turn the computer on.... boots up like normal no problem.... so, I'm like hmm.... no problem yet.... I look at the list of installed programs... hardware(recoding the names/settings for some of the devices)....

I see no problems in device manager... good.... no crap programs installed... good....


I backup all the necessary data(my documents folder... fonts, favorites).... looks like they dont have much on the computer...

I think, well maybe there is a program that is starting up with the comp and causeing problems... so I start msconfig... the list is really short... no suspect programs... good...

and I'm thinking.. where's the problem???


maybe it's a hardware problem... so I install folding at home and prime95.... I run folding at home while doing scandisk and defrag... the comp is perfectly stable...

I run prime95 and folding for 1 hour straight.... perfectly stable.....

I think... well maybe it's a specific program causing all the trouble... so I give the friend a call.. nope... just windows... I decide to go through a typical workload for this computer (surfing, ICQ, word, photoshop)... After an hour it is still stable....

I decide to get rid of adaptec easy CD creator and the adaptec packet writing software because it's not used or needed since nero is installed... other than that I can't find a single thing wrong with this computer....


I've rebooted, cold booted, warm booted.... the case gets pretty warm, but i've had the computer on for almost three hours straight and in a typical day the computer is probably only turned on for 2 or 3 hrs.


What are your guys' suggestions? anything I overlooked? is this just another case of the magic pixie dust that apears when a tech looks at a customer's problem PC?


I'm beginning to think that maybe there is something wrong with my friend's surge protector...



The computer is a Compaq presario 4540 with latest BIOS update.
This PC is a AMD K6 233mHz, 48MB PC66 SDRAM, Seagate ATA IV, S&F 4x4x24 CD-RW, Compaq mobo mased of an intel VX chipset runing win98 se

 

[P5-133XL]

Your friend could have unstable power (Surge protector) - Likely. Check to see if there are other things on the same circuit like a refrigerator/freezer/Washer/Dryer/ect.

Check the location that the machine was previously stored (perhaps it was against a wall preventing air-flow and causing overheating) - Likely.

Does the machine have a telephone/ethernet/serial cable/printer connection that is not being hooked up at your house? Less likely.

Are you using the same monitor running at the same resolution and refresh (perhaps his monitor is causing problems with the video card that yours is not) Unlikely, but possible, because with the crashes, one normally get's reports of screen defects too.

 

[blakerwry]

the case has plenty of airflow where it is ontop of her desk...


This is a different monitor, but i am running @ same color, res, refresh rate...


She uses her modem and I am using the ethernet card connection at the moment.... however, she is not online much... but i will check it out. we have reletively new modem drivers installed (LT winmodem driver v6.00)


and as far as I know her room's outlets are all on one circuit by themselves... this means only her telephone and a desk lamp are on the same outlet... an alarm clock and a radio are on another outlet on the same circuit. I would have to test this to find out.

 

[blakerwry]

oh, i finally figured out how to Blue screen the dang thing....

By running the Nero CD speed benchmark I was able to get reproducable Blue screens during the seek tests.... however these were not hard lockups and I could just press enter to get out of them and return normal operation....


I simply installed Adaptec ASPI drivers and the problem went away....


After over 5 hours of use this thing is looking to be one of the most stable win98 boxes I have had the pleasure of using.

 

[Fushigi]

Open the case & blow out the accumulated dust, which might be causing some fans to not work optimally or can even causes shorts. While you're in the box, re-seat all cables & cards and press on all socketed chips -- they sometimes work loose with thermal expansion/contraction.

Other things I check when placed in front of a mystery machine: Check Windows Update for Critical updates, ensure up-to-date AV software is running, run Ad Aware or something similar, update video drivers.

- Fushigi

 

[blakerwry]

case is dust free... It has terrible ventalation with the only fan being a 60mm case fan... no other mounts are possible.


I will double check all the cable seatings as well as RAM and CPU(if possible)

I am using the default win98 drivers for video as they have been running fine and that should be good enough for the onboard s3 trio64 video.

 

[blakerwry]

oh, and yes, I went to http://housecall.antivirus.com and ran a virus check... clean...


I've been surfing for about 3 and 1/2 hours now.. seems pretty decent for a 28800 connection..... my phone lines are terrbile though... never been able to connect fater here... my friend connects at 48000 or higher just one or 2 miles away.

 

[SteveC]

By any chance, is it directly above a furnace or central air unit? I've seen a PC that had spontaneous reboots be fixed by simply moving it across the room to the side opposite where the furnace was in the basement. It's even still on the same circuit as it was previously, and now runs completely stable.
Also, you could give MemTest a try.

 

[Tea]

Everybody hatez theze onez! At thiz ztage, I think you have two optionz:

(a) Do nothing and hope the problem doez not recur. Rough guezz at your chancez of zuccezz: 33%.

(b) Wipe the entire Windowz inztall and go from zcratch: thiz can often nuke that hidden zoftware glitch that you can't pick up with tazk manager, mzconfig, or anything elze. Rough guzz of your chancez: 50% or better.

The K6-233 iz a notoriouz hot runner. Normally I'd make CPU temperature your firzt port of call. However, if it really iz failing to ztart up, then we can eliminate that pozzibility in the direct zense. It may ztill be the problem in an indirect zense, however. Having made quite zure that the ztarting up problemz are ztarting from cold (if they are reztart problemz - i.e., when zyztem iz hot - go right back to zuzpecting direct CPU temperature problemz), conzider the pozzibillity that the CPU runz too hot but not grozzly too hot. Over time, this rezults in progrezzive damage, to CPU, to the board componentz cloze to the CPU, or to both. Once the CPU and/or board iz cooked, there iz nothing you can do, short of a major hardware replacement - in a vomit box, thiz iz particularly painful, of courze.

Time to rezort to the old-fazhioned CPU temperature meazurement method: finger on the chip: burnt finger = burnt chip. After that, you need to decide if you zhould reinztall from zcratch or not.

 

[time]

I agree with ea. he K6-233 has an excepionally low maximum die emperaure raing. Coupled wih excessive hea dissipaion, i's a flaky combo.

I's probably worh replacing he cooler anyway. Upgrading i o a Socke A/370 class uni is usually a vas improvemen over he insipid weeny hings originally fied. Just make sure ha i will fi ...

 

[Buck]

I’m very curious bout the het dissiption for the het sink nd system too. Insted of burning your hnd, you cn buy temperture guge to mesure the CPU.

 

[blakerwry]

like I said, I ran Prime95's torture test and folding@home.... Not a single problem

the CPU heatsink gets warm when the fan is on... but not hot... If I remove the ducting the heatsink does get hot so I know the heatsink is working...

I've been running memtest86 for the past 3-4 hours and still no errors...

I think I've completely ruled out a hardware problem. If there was flakey hardware involved I think I would have seen some signs.

I tried using a few sticks of PC100 thinking it might work better than the original SDRAM... however the boards max is ONLY 48MB... I put in a 64MB stick and it only counts 32MB of it!!! So I am stuck with the current 48MB.

 

[blakerwry]

about upgrading... it wont be done.. infact too much upgrading has allready been done and will probably be gone to waste....

My friend is probably getting an Apple laptop as a graduation gift.. when that happens this PC is going to grandma.... it's a shame I even put an ata IV and my beloved Smart and Friendly burner in here.

As you can tell, this PC is pretty old.. .proprietary case anyway. There is no way you could put an ATX mobo in here.. maybe you could do a *dirty* job of fitting a micro ATX board... . but it's probably not even worth it because of the proprietary PSU... along with it's placement.... and the non-standard back of the thing, makes it a pain.... A $50 ATX case would be a much better solution than busting my knuckles trying to jerry-rig this case.


I hate to reformat and lose some of the custumizations of the PC... I might just do it though...

 

[Tea]

Oh dear! I zeem to have ztarted an abberant zpelling crase.

Er ... Excuze me, make that: "I zeem o hve zred n bbernt zpelling crze." If his goez much furher, hings re going o get difficult o red!

Blake, thiz iz pozzibly a good time to try one of my favourite tricks: what we call "a spare install". We take a zpare hard drive, wipe it clean, and do a plain vanilla inztall of the appropriate operating zystem. If no problemz zhow up in the workzhop, zometimez we will hand it over to the cuztomer on loan for a while, zee if they can break it. If there are ztill no problemz, then the trouble waz zoftware: problem zolved. If the zame problemz do zhow up, then it haz to be hardware.

 

[blakerwry]

that is a good idea. I have done similar things before...

But unfortunately I am not a computer repair shop and seem to have run out of decent HDD's at the moment.... my best are the 200 and 240MB caviars and my biggest are a ~1 and 1.2 GB conner (I know one of them has bad sectors).

Maybe I could create a ghost backup of the drive to keep handy. That's going to be a pain in this computer... I hope that ghost supports this CD writer....



I'm pretty sure that this is not a hardware problem in the computer as I ran memtest-86 last night for 18 hours straight without error. But that brings us back to the AC power in her room or a possible software problem I have yet to encounter.

 

[blakerwry]

i used the ghost 2003 trialware to burn the image directly to CD... i was impressed to say the least...


that gives me 15 days to reformat and reinstall stuff and see how it works/see if i forgot to backup something >8- )...


I decided to swap HDD's with another computer... I put a 5400RPM ~10 gig unit in here. No perf diff that I can tell from HDTach, but the 5400RPM unit should run a bit cooler and only uses 1 Amp of power according to specs.