GM Employee Discount for Everyone until July 5th

[Howell]

The one thing I do notice is that out of all the mini-vans from the past, I see more of these ancient MPVs by far than any other mini-van -- usually beat to hell with faded and oxidised metallic paint.

Keep your eyes open for Toyota Previas.

 

[iGary]

Keep your eyes open for Toyota Previas.

I have. And, to just make sure that I know the year of manufacture of the ones that I tend to see around, I just perused a bunch of photos of older Previas. The oldest Previas I see around here are typically 1994/95 models.

I'm quite familiar with a couple that I see occasionally in my area. One is dark blue and fairly badly beat up, though it seems to still be running fine and apparently passing inspections. It's definitely one of the saddest mini-vans that I see rolling around. Almost all its edge trim and chrome insignia are broken and gone -- small dents all over it, stuff loose. Looks like it someone keeps it parked out around centerfield at a little league baseball park.

The other 1994/95 Previa I see around occasionally is a lot more memorable, as it is some half-baked rolling shrine to the Grateful Dead. Otherwise, dents galore and it seems to be squashed suspension springs on one side (i.e. -- permanent lean). I think it was originally dark green, though it's a bit hard to tell with the decayed artwork and bumper stickers that have been applied to the body, and, yes, the years-old layer of road dirt uke-r: .

 

[Clocker]

Asians oversell horsepower


WASHINGTON -- After years of touting ever higher horsepower numbers to win new customers, Toyota Motor Corp., Honda Motor Co. and possibly other automakers are now backtracking on some of those claims.

Strict new tests developed by the industry's top engineering group are prompting the carmakers to roll back horsepower estimates on several key vehicles, including the Toyota Camry, America's best-selling car, and Honda's luxurious Acura RL.

For the 2006 model year, Toyota says its Camry equipped with a 3-liter V-6 engine generates 190 horsepower. In 2005, Toyota said the same car with the same engine had 210 horsepower.

The revised ratings comply with new Society of Automotive Engineers standards designed to eliminate subjective interpretation in establishing horsepower claims.

While Toyota and Honda are retesting their entire vehicle lineups, other automakers generally are retesting only cars and trucks with updated powertrains.

Over time, most automakers are expected to comply with the new guidelines, and horsepower ratings for other vehicles could be revised.

Detroit's automakers say they have been conservative in calculating horsepower and don't expect to have to reduce horsepower ratings on many vehicles. In fact, after retesting, the Big Three have revised horsepower ratings upward on several vehicles.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosin.../A01-283759.htm

 

[Fushigi]

So the question is, since the automakers perpetrated fraud/misrepresentation on thier customers, what remedy do the customers get?

Hyundai did this; they said their 2L 4 cyl had 138HP when it in fact had 132. No big diff, but it did generate a class action lawsuit. Other engines were mentioned as well. Net result: Anyone who joined the suit, had an appropriate vehicle, and agreed the HP numbers was an influence towards their purchase decision got a debit card (amount varied) for use at Hyundai dealerships. $100 or about 4 free oil changes for my wife & her Elantra.

 

[Pradeep]

Personally I'd like to see HP defined as how much power gets sent to the driving wheels. Then we can see how much the slushbox and other running gear has robbed us

6 HP in the Elantra doesn't worry me, I notice that the SULEV version has a few less horspeower than the ULEV. Plus I have free oil changes for life.

 

[LiamC]

Clocker, your link gives a 404. What was the gist of it?

 

[timwhit]

Try that: http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0508/17/A01-283759.htm

 

[LOST6200]

It appears that the fixed dicsount prices for the North American cars are continually being extended. Are the prices really that good or is the purchase process simply less of a hassle? Ae the cars still not selling well?

 

[Mercutio]

I think that the cars are not selling well.

 

[Pradeep]

The cars/trucks are selling well. They have had the biggest months ever I believe.

Problem is that they aren't making much profit on them. And it kills the resale values.