Goodbye to the decade of the crank

jtr1962

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 25, 2002
Messages
4,379
Location
Flushing, New York
It seems I'm not the only one to have complained about the growing phenomenom of uneducated "experts".

Some of my favorite lines from the article:

"Over the last ten years, we’ve been inundated by a constantly growing stream of punditry and in a quest to give every view its time in the sun and equal treatment, we’ve managed to empower a contingent of people whose disregard for education, expertise and those with different political beliefs are nothing short of amazing."

"Likewise, with ever growing access to medical and scientific information on the web, there are plenty of those who believe that reading WebMD or looking up a few concepts in physics online give them the knowledge to seriously debate with scientists and experts who dedicate their entire lives to the topics they study."
 

udaman

Wannabe Storage Freak
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
1,209
Hmm, jtr I'm just wipping off the sweat from an exhausting 5 restaurant round up of dim sum, 4+hrs worth of driving...in near 80F weather (might as well be in Oz land down under :p).

I would say easy to look back, but how about prognosticators for the future decade ahead :D.

I expect more of the same, perhaps a dirty bomb in NYC? ...and Los Angeles...now that would make this past decade seem relaxed in comparison.

I would say the 1st decade of the 21st ...er is it the 22nd century now...mind is not working ATM, was the height of the rise and fall of western civilization< oops, didn't someone pen that already ?

Reality shows were a new all time low for TV, and Americans especially, ate it up (not to say the similar shows aren't popular all over the globe...least those parts not in control by the Tailiban :) ). I expect network TV to decline further, cable gets more ad revenue, something's bound to break/fail...and guess who's going to end up paying for it.

California is facing a $21 Billion budget shortfall in the last year of the Govenators term, will the state go bankrupt? How severe can the state tax even more than it already has, with shrinking tax revenue from poor economy that is not about to rebound in an significant way to stave off these near term problems?

Well that's it...what else do you think will happen, doom and gloom :D
 

jtr1962

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 25, 2002
Messages
4,379
Location
Flushing, New York
How is that a goodbye? It will only get worse.
The author is being optimistic that if we actually change how we educate people, we might not continue to have the masses believing every pundit out there. There was actually a time when schools taught kids to think critically. I even vaguely remember one of my teachers talking about how advertisers mislead people. Nowadays if a school did that you would probably get a bunch of major corporations complaining like hell. After all, we need to churn out good little consumers who will buy into every fad the advertisers invent.

I can't say I share the author's optimism, however. It seems the easier it is for people to find information, the dumber people get. The problem I think is because most people can't filter reliable sources of information from BS. For example, they'll consider some political pundit's "reasons" that global warming is a scam to be equivalent to decades of study by scientists who have devoted their lives to this subject. This kind of idiocy filters down to all levels. I often get customers telling me I should use such and such part in something I was asked to design. When asked why, the response is often "I saw it advertised, so it must be a good part". And then I have to waste time explaining to them it may be a good part, but for the project we're making it's not applicable. :bibber: One time when the customer was insisting I use a certain part anyway, I told him since he was so knowledgeable, how about he just do the design himself? That shut him up real quick. There's a reason people go to school for years to be engineers or doctors. You don't pick this stuff up reading wikipedia. I can only imagine what doctors go through with patients who are "knowledgeable" about certain drugs because they saw an ad for them on TV. :rant:

I'm sick and tired of self-appointed "experts".
 

blakerwry

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Oct 12, 2002
Messages
4,203
Location
Kansas City, USA
Website
justblake.com
I think it's great that wikipedia and google are able to make information so accessible to the average person. These are extremely powerful tools because of the knowledge that can be shared.

Some people may scoff if you mention that you "read it on wikipedia", but I feel that most of the articles are just as credible as your average "expert" - Meaning that you can ask 3 doctors (or experts) the same question and get 3 differing opinions or statements. You should think critically about the information regardless of the source, and ideally get multiple opinions on important choices or information to reach a common consensus.

What I do believe is a common thread in the last decade are the fanatics/extremists - in religion, media, and politics. I don't understand the religious fanatics and how to deal with them. Why would someone want to kill thousands of Americans? What's their motivation? I do understand the media, but as long as there is an audience that will continue to drool over Glenn Beck he'll be on the air. Politics has been media driven for a long time, so the good looking candidate that people can relate to will continue to be favored - regardless of his or her indiscretions (including fabricating a war).
 

RWIndiana

Learning Storage Performance
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
335
Location
Nirvana
There's a reason people go to school for years to be engineers or doctors. You don't pick this stuff up reading wikipedia. I can only imagine what doctors go through with patients who are "knowledgeable" about certain drugs because they saw an ad for them on TV. :rant:

I'm sick and tired of self-appointed "experts".


I hope you aren't suggesting we just blindly follow the lead of the so-called "experts" just because they are certified. Some of the biggest idiots and failures I know are engineers and architects, who, frankly, probably couldn't figure out how a ball-point pen works.

Yes there are many stupid people in the world who will fall for the "miracle drug". But elitism is just as dangerous, if not more so. In the same post you suggested that people ought to be taught to think critically. I agree with that (as I do with 95% of your post). One of the biggest banes to this society is the brain-washing that goes on in our school systems. Rather than being taught how to think, we are being taught what to think.

I find some inconsistency with the logic though. Example: shouldn't we then think critically about what the elites tell us about global warming (or "climate change"), rather than blindly accept all the hype? I've long thought that much of the hooplah around it was manufactured or just plain mass panic. I've never entirely discounted it, but I certainly question whether it is caused by man, solar activity, natural cycles, or magical gnomes. We never have known enough about it to make that judgment because we haven't been keeping records that long. Evidence suggests that the earth has been far warmer in the past than it is right now (not just a few degrees), and also far colder. And now a bunch of elitists want to make me use lamps with mercury in them for the good of the world? I think I'd rather choose life.

Just thought I would point out the fact that you seem to be saying two different things in the same post. Otherwise, props!
 

jtr1962

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 25, 2002
Messages
4,379
Location
Flushing, New York
I hope you aren't suggesting we just blindly follow the lead of the so-called "experts" just because they are certified. Some of the biggest idiots and failures I know are engineers and architects, who, frankly, probably couldn't figure out how a ball-point pen works.
You shouldn't blindly follow the lead of anyone, of course, no matter what credentials they have. But that's not my main point. The main point is that unless a person is educated to think critically, then they're really not able to accurately assess who might be right, and who is obviously full of BS. And that's the problem. In a society where the majority can't think for themselves, which sadly seems to be the case right now, you leave room for all sorts of charlatans to be taken seriously. Some of these charlatans end up being elected to public office, and dictating some of the agenda in public schools. IMO, schools should stick to teaching you how to think, and only give you the facts you need in order to do that ( that includes a good background in mathematics, science, and history ). They should leave the proselytizing to others. Instead, they skimp on the basics in order to make their target audience easier to brainwash with whatever agenda they choose ( and this has been done by both sides of the aisle ). Conservatives teaching creationism is as bad as liberals teaching about gay lifestyles. Neither have any value in teaching you to think critically, plus they waste valuable classroom time better spent on more concrete subjects.

I find some inconsistency with the logic though. Example: shouldn't we then think critically about what the elites tell us about global warming (or "climate change"), rather than blindly accept all the hype? I've long thought that much of the hooplah around it was manufactured or just plain mass panic. I've never entirely discounted it, but I certainly question whether it is caused by man, solar activity, natural cycles, or magical gnomes. We never have known enough about it to make that judgment because we haven't been keeping records that long. Evidence suggests that the earth has been far warmer in the past than it is right now (not just a few degrees), and also far colder. And now a bunch of elitists want to make me use lamps with mercury in them for the good of the world? I think I'd rather choose life.
I'll grant that the author's use of global warming is a bad example here. But nevertheless it illustrates the problem. Sure, there is still some room to debate the cause of global warming. Is it totally manmade, or caused by increased solar output, or volcanies, or a combination of other causes? What really isn't up for debate is the fact that global warming exists. And yet those not educated in the methodology of the scientists who study global warming will come out with nonsensical reasons to say it isn't happening, such as snow on the ground in January. That's the problem-not only do many people these days totally misunderstand science, but even worse they feel somehow qualified to debate with those who have studied a subject for years, even decades. Why is this so? In my opinion the reason is because the education system failed. It not only failed to teach these people to think critically, but it also failed to teach them their limitations. An educated person knows their strengths and weaknesses. I won't go head-to-toe in a debate if I have only a cursory knowledge of a subject while the other person has a doctorate. Sorry, but I know I'm not qualified to debate this person. I can ask them how they arrived at their conclusions, and perhaps also ask how I may further study the subject. But to tell them they're wrong when I know little about what they studed is very presumptuous of me. This is why when I see people doing exactly that it annoys the heck out of me.

That brings me to my next point-trust. It's sorely lacking these days. In fact, the amount of skepticism I see on every subject is downright disgusting. We used to trust "experts" because we trusted that the system they went through to become experts weeded out the charlatans. Nowadays that trust is gone. We assume every scientist who says global warming is manmade has an ulterior motive. We assume everyone who tries to get us to use fluorescent lamps wants us to die of mercury poisoning ( don't even get me started on the hysteria the small amount of mercury in flourescents is causing-heck I used to play with BLOBS of the stuff as a kid, and I'm still here ). It just goes on and on and I'm sick of it. The end result is all we're doing is fighting each other and getting nowhere. At some point we have to trust that those who know more about a subject than we do might actually be right. This isn't to say these "experts" should never be questioned or put to the test. However, that's what peer review in many fields generally does. They are evaluated by others best qualified to judge the validity of what they say. The hard fact is a lot of science and engineering and medicine are inherently difficult subjects requiring years to master. There's no way anyone outside the field can meaningfully offer debate. Unfortunately, that's another fact which doesn't seem to be taught in schools these days.

And lastly, we need tolerance. Scientists are human, they will make mistakes. Or often they will discard old theories in favor of new ones as new data become available. This doesn't mean they're stupid or incompetent or being manipulated by someone to change their theories. It simply means that science is a fluid, evolving discipline which changes rapidly as we're able to gather better data. But sadly this fact is also lost on most of the general public.
 
Top