I just gambled on a Powerleap upgrade...

Santilli

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Well, the girls computer in the other room, won't play video stuff clearly.
She doesn't do much else with it, and, that's the only problem with it for what she does.

So, I ordered, for 120 bucks, a Powerleap 1.2 ghz T upgrade:

http://www.powerleap.com/PL-iP3T.jsp#

This computer isn't used for much, other then email, and sometimes video stuff.

They provide a bios upgrade for old dells, and, we will see how it goes.

I'm not in the mood to upgrade her computer to the tune of 1200 bucks, like the one I just built...

s
 

Santilli

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Also, if the processor is fast enough, I'll install a NEC 3520A burner...
s
 

Santilli

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OK: Arrived today. Took at least 5 minutes to get it out of the box, install it, and reboot.

Seems to work much faster, and, at least now, the anti-virus software isn't eating the processor. GUI is faster, photoshop is MUCH faster, and all the crap she loads at boot doesn't seem to overwhelm the computer, and booting times are about 1/3. The upgrade is 120 dollars, Powerleap PL-iP3/T Which is a 1.2 ghz Tualatin Celeron processor.

Nice for a Dell, where upgrading the motherboard is not an option...

Provided nothing breaks, this thing should work for the SO for another 5 years...

The main thing I wanted was an upgrade that allowed smooth video play.

So far it's fine in Real Player, which has changed my Windows Media Files to it's format player. This is war...

s
 

Tannin

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So, for about the same money that it would have cost you to put a 3100 Sempron into a real computer, you put a 1200 Celeron into the Dell. Just sums up what I have always said about Dell vomit boxes really.

Still, given that you already had the Dull, it was probably the best option.
 

Santilli

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I know. I was thinking the same thing. However, the Dell is "the girl's computer" in the house, and, it's got a 440BX chipset motherboard, Quantum LM that is going on 5-6 years old, Matrox P 550, it's quiet, my girlfriend REALLY likes it, and, I just realized the Windows 2000 install is about 4 years old as well. I just did a quick repair on it, using the OS disk.

Now it will even run AOL, and all it's crap, and still have a bit of processor power left over, and, it now plays streaming video, without hiccups.

I suspect with a proper burner, like an NEC, I could even play and burn videos on it. Trying to figure out if buying an NEC burner, or just getting a USB 2 card, and using an external burner I have laying around would be the way to go.

Probably the USB 2.0 card, provided Windows 2000 has USB 2.0 support, and drivers. Have to go look and see if I have any pci slots around.

I really need to back her data up...

Here we go shopping, again...

G
 

Santilli

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Runs Windows media player now at about 1/4 processor. Prior, it was 100%.

G
 

Santilli

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I just checked Dell, and I could have picked up a 2.4 ghz entire new machine for 329.00. :wink:

G
 

Santilli

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While I'll never buy another, I don't think, anyway, that BX based Dell has been a really good computer, as it should have for it's 3000 dollar price tag at the time.

Wasn't a bad move the first time, going from macs to PC's, when 98 was the prevalent operating system.

Course it did have two ATA channels that would only work with one device on each channel, a fact that wasn't brought up until about 8 months later, and only found by a Dell tech, after many calls. They learned that one from apple....

s
 

P5-133XL

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I've had good luck with Dell's; I currently have two 3.2 P4 8400's and a 3.2 P4 SC420 and further I have yet to pay more that $500 total for machine and the needed tweaks (like upping the ram to 1GB). However, I think you need to know enough to know what you are getting and what is a good price: Their lower-end products compete with standard vomit boxes and they price-gough on extra components. But their upper-end stuff seem to work well and if you wait for a good sale then the price can't be beat. You may have to buy some components from someone else because Dell happens to price-gough on add-on components and one does have to live with a certain amount of propriety fecal matter, but if the price is right...

Dealing with a Dell Tech, uhggg (projectile vomiting heard in the distance). but the same can be said of virtually all tech-support from all mass computer resellers. There, the art is to get ahold of the telephone number that skips tier-1.

While I know that Power-Leap upgrades generally work, I have a philosophic problem with them however. They cost too much for the performance gain that they produce. You may be improving the CPU, but everything else stays the same (Slow ram, Slow HD, ...). What has happened is that you simply transfer the bottleneck to some other sub-system.

The art of buying cost-effective computers is to having all your components balanced, so that all the bottlenecks are at the same point and you aren't wasting money buying unused performance. Upgrading a computer, generally breaks this cardinal rule; so I'm philosophicly against ugrading as a way of extending the life of a machine.

For cost-effective reasons, I basicly believe that if you need to upgrade then you really should be replacing. If the old machine still has a reasonable lifespan then reuse it or sell it to someone else that can still use it.
 

Fushigi

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I'm still uprgading my Zenith Z-151 I bought back in 1984. No original parts remain, of course. The thing I like about upgrading is that I can eliminate whatever bottleneck I have without having to replace everything else that I'm used to or still works just fine. And unless the uprgrade is relatively major, I mostly don't have to waste 2 days re-installing everything and getting things set up just the way I like them. That used to be fun, but hasn't been for some time.

Parts that are left over as a result of my upgrades are used to upgrade other PCs or build entire new machines for next to no cash up front.

Also, many whole-PC deals lack the components I want. Better video card, larger/faster HD, XP Pro vs. Home, etc. Adding those, when possible, often eliminates a lot of the potential savings.

As to PowerLeap upgrades, I wouldn't do one personally. I agree that if making a major jump in CPU speed, you probably want to replace the mobo & RAM to gain faster bus speeds. In fact, that's why I no longer worry about processor sockets. When I build a machine or do an upgrade, I pretty much never upgrade just the CPU. It's always done in conjunction with a new mobo. So socket ceases to matter; just get the one that mates to the desired CPU.
 

Will Rickards

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I would generally check their prices every once in a while as an option to upgrade my P3 667 slot 1. But everytime I compared the price to a low end amd with motherboard and ram, I just didn't think the upgrade was worth the money. This all came down to Intel's processors being so expensive, especially when they weren't current anymore.

But for Santilli's situation I think it was a decent move.
 

Santilli

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Mark:
The irony of the Dell is it's the SO's, and she loves it. The Quantum LM STILL is one of the faster hard drives around, access time wise, and she loves it, for ATA. Don't remind me about the Dell channels only being able to use one device, per channel...

She's getting used to the two monitors, and the P550 is a good balance for what she does with the machine, and, it plays mpegs and should work well for DVD's, if I either hook up an external drive, or, replace the current CD player. The 440BX chipset motherboard works just fine, and has always been fast.

So, in short, even though the ram maybe a little slow, the processor is way behind the other components, that have already been upgraded. Oh, I forgot the new wireless keyboard, and wireless mouse, both have benefited speedwise, from the cpu upgrade.

My hope is this will make the box work for awhile longer, and, I have a very hard time doing cheap computers. I'm sort of jinxed. After all, how many of you have had Gigabyte boards with bad ATA channels????

My Athlon 3000+, that I could give her, and she thinks is really cool, cost around 1500 dollars by the time I got done. 400 of that was scsi.

I really didn't want to spend over 150 dollars, and, at 120, and being a 1.2 ghz, I hope it will be cool enough to last awhile.

I'll save the old processor.

jtr1962: sorry to hear about your's dieing. I think the weak part in the program is maybe the 1.4 ghz is stretching it, heat wise, and, the fans aren't the best.

I've also got the philosophy that the real weak point in all these 'home desktops' are the hard drives. When the Quantum LM heads south, a cheap LSI scsi 320 card, and anyone of the Cheetahs I've got sitting in a box would be a huge speed boost for that machine. Plus, I can transfer it to another machine, later.

However, emotional attachment is a hard thing to deal with sometimes, and, watching her use the machine can be more painful then watching the speed it moves at. I'm sure that you guys might feel that way watching me poke around with computers, but it's odd how people get a proficency level that suits their needs. Hers are AOL, law documents, and little else, except maybe stuff like cat screen savers, etc. I'm not sure if she's figured out how to use the zip drive to back up documents, or, if she's still using floppies, but, that was a major battle. Anyway, this entire event has made it real clear to me that I better come up with a better backup solution.

I had, in theory, the idea of using my two 146 gig 10k's for backing up her data, but, I use nearly the entire drives, burning movies to the disks, viewing, then deleting. I often burn to one, and watch stuff off the other one, or burn off the other one.

OK, I've got to have a look at a solution for the backup stuff...

Thanks all for your help, ande perspective.

Sincerely

Greg
 

tazwegion

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Hmmmm... I'm impressed with that Powerleap's specs, AS5, copper Heatsink & bb fan, what more could one want? pity about the price though ;)

Dell's are okay (for a vomit box) and quite cheap in the used market, recently used a system box PIII for the basis of a cheap retro-fit/upgrade... the computer room gets more like a PC wreckers every day :roll: :lol:
 

Santilli

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Tannin:
Sempron 3100's cost 90 dollars here. Motherboard is 30 dollars you use with it?

The alternative is

P160 case 120 dollars, still haven't found a cheap box in this area that's quiet.
Gigabyte motherboard I have.
Processor 90
Power Supply 80
Ram 85 dollars
DVD player we have,
switch hard drive over, or another 140 for SCsi card and cables.
I figure I'm at 600, easy, and that's not with the processor I like, which is about 140 Venice core 3000+.
Swiftech cooler and fan 70 dollars.

No, 120 looks much better, and, if the hard drive or something big fails, I can use the Dell for school(nobody will want to steal it) and replace it with the above. However, first I need to get a job. I've been doing nothing but interviewing, all this week.

GS
 

Santilli

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Will: For your machine, it doesnt' make sense, since the upgrade path is only twice your current processor, if you spend 200 bucks.

For me, a Celeron is considerably faster then the P2, and, it's a 3x clock speed increase. You can notice that, and, it was only 120 bucks.

So far, so good.

If SO's job works out, I'll build her something really nice, or trade her the box
I've got built in the other room.

I just don't feel like pulling the 36 gig cheetah I've got in it out, and reloading everything onto an 18 gig.

g
 

Santilli

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Just finished stage two on this setup. I installed an Adaptec 2906, and a Plextor SCSI DVD, along with a Plextor CDwriter/reader.

I can now play a DVD, type on the second monitor, and stay around 48-70% of the processor.

I also installd a USB 2.0 card, Kingwin, two port, 15 dollars, so in a pinch, I can install a DVD external, writer.

It appears you install pci cards from the furthest away slot, towards the processor on this motherboard.

Overall, if nothing breaks, it should be fine for quite awhile...

The hard drive is getting on in years, so backing her data up, in an easy way,
just burning a CD, is a nice solution. If worse comes to worse, I'll pull the USB card, and install a SCSI 320 card, and Cheetah to boot from.

GS
 

Santilli

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Well, the upgrade just froze the computer. Maybe being on too long, too much heat, don't know.

Anyway, pulled a scsi drive out, jacked the voltage up to 1.6 V, per the instructions, and we'll see how it works. Still keeping the old processor around.

Anyone know the max cpu I could run on this BX chipset, with the A11 bios?

GS
 

LiamC

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Santilli said:
Anyone know the max cpu I could run on this BX chipset, with the A11 bios?

GS

The P!!! range was never my strong point, but IIRC, later versions of the range actually set the multiplier on chip, so even if the BIOS was limited to (say) 12X, you could plug in a 15X chip and it would work itself out. The hard bit was the Tualatin chips used a different voltage regulation schema--but the Coppermines should work OK. I run a 733 Coppermine on a generic Slotkit in a BX @ 112-->616MHz just fine
 

mubs

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LiamC said:
I run a 733 Coppermine on a generic Slotkit in a BX @ 112-->616MHz just fine
I didn't know you could run a 133 MHz bus chip on a 100 MHz bus; thought they wouldn't boot or sumtin. I'll be damned! BTW, I've been running dual 800/100 Coppermines on a BX board in Abit slotkets at 112 MHz = 896 MHz since 12/2000.
 

Santilli

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After posting this, I checked with Dell, and didn't find the info, but, did find the computer is now 7 years old.

Since I've got another motherboard in the other room, I may just build her another machine, now that she has a job.

GS
 

Santilli

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The Dell shipped with a 200 watt power supply, and, with the extra cheetah, and scsi card, I think I might have had both powersupply and heat problems.
Pulled it. If and when the hard drive dies, I'll install the Cheetah. Also had to order a DVD ATA burner to load windows, since I can't load windows from a scsi CD burner, or scsi DVD player.

S
 

time

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A Tualatin processor draws bugger all power, Greg. If, apart from the optics, you only have two spindles, the 200W PS should be sufficient.

If you're worried about heat, have you checked the CPU temperature? (It may not be possible on a Powerleap card).
 

Santilli

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"bugger all" is not a term I'm up on. From the rest of your comment, I gather that means "not much?" :mrgrn: :?: :wink:

CPU temp is not possible, but, since jacking to 1.6 volts, it's been stable...

GS
 

Santilli

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It's been running fine. Turn the machine off over night, and, no screen booting. Pull out the Powerleap, and back to the P2 400 and it's fine. Must be the ram, and, I am NOT going to buy new ram for a 7 year old machine.

Think it's too late to return...

Oh well, it was worth a try.

GS
 

Santilli

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I'm right on the warranty return time, so, I'll have a reply soon.

If they give me the money back, I'm going to do what I should have done in the first place, and build her a new box, or, give her my Athlon 3000+ that I use for email, and trade. :cry: :errr: :arge: :cursin: :excl: :eekers: :?:

That of course, might give me an excuse to go for a dual core, second machine, if the Gigabyte motherboard will support it....

GS
 

Stereodude

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Santilli said:
It's been running fine. Turn the machine off over night, and, no screen booting. Pull out the Powerleap, and back to the P2 400 and it's fine. Must be the ram, and, I am NOT going to buy new ram for a 7 year old machine.

Think it's too late to return...

Oh well, it was worth a try.

GS
Sounds like the power supply is way too small for all the stuff you have crammed in there. Why don't you try another PS?
 

Santilli

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I thought of that. If the power supply is too small, why does the P2, which I think, draws more juice then the tualitin, plus fan, run perfectly?

Powerleap is going to test the cpu, and let me know if that's what the problem is.

If it isn't the cpu, it's likely you are correct. I could pull the modem, we don't use it, and, I've already pulled the zip drive, internal.

Still, I can much more easily rationalize letting her use the Athlon 3000+, with Cheetah 36 gig boot drive, and 700XL, along with DVD 3520 and Gigabyte motherboard. It should, with XP tuned down, do what she does with it, forever. Actually, I could switch to the Matrox 550, and still have the 700 XL, and, she'd still have a machine with fantastic graphics, if not games. Other then HD DVD, the G550 is a superb card.

The other excuse is to use that money(from the powerleap upgrade) to buy a 7200 rpm Hitachi, or Seagate, laptop drive, for the Panasonic CF-51, and use that for email.
Otherwise, it's just sitting in the closet, waiting for me to take the bar again...

GS
 

Santilli

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Well, found an excellent solution for this mess. I got rid of the virus software, Mcafee, or rather, turned it off, unless I turn it on, and, I'm running the stock processor. I'm still running the firewall, but do the virus stuff on demand.

I've found Penicillin, from Trendmicro, is the best as far as posting attempted worms, or network alerts, and, they link directly to trendmicro.com on the worm, or virus, and, they then link directly to the
update MSFT has buried that will protect your system against the worm, even if you are running 2000. Seems they seem to work a bit better then
MSFT update...

In other words, the one computer with Penicillin, then has solutions that I can apply to each computer on the network. THAT'S COOL! :excl: :mrgrn: I setup shared folders, download the suitable updates, and, install them on every computer on the network...


Penicillin's constant updates, are however, a major pain in the arse on a slow computer...

GS
 

Santilli

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Santilli said:
Haven't heard from Powerleap... :(

GS
Powerleap refunded the money, just didnt' bother to tell me they had. After I enquired, they gave me a date the transfer was made by email.

s
 
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