iPhone syndrome

[Handruin]

It will certainly be entertaining to watch all the Apple Fanboys do a u-turn. For several years they've sworn multitasking was irrelevant. :rant: Now they're suddenly going to welcome it with open arms recognizing it's importance. :cheers:

From the other perspective, it's entertaining to see iPhone haters think they're saying "I told you so", when the iPhone was made a great phone even without multitasking. Other phones had to use multitasking as a marketing advantage because they lacked a good solid and smooth UI and touch screen system. Many UIs were an afterthought (win mobile) and the new-comers really had (and still have) their work cut out for them.

There is no u-turn. I knew full-well that buying an iPhone that it didn't have your beloved multitasking, but I also wasn't missing it on a daily basis. Pandora is really the only app I can think of where the option would have been nice from the start. Maybe there will be other noticeable apps that make use of it so time will tell.

 

[time]

'One billion' ads to swamp iPhone users

 

[Handruin]

I'm not sure if you are aware, but developers have been funding their free apps with ads for as long as I can remember. Since I only have apps that are free, several of them (including NPR) use ads to help support them.

 

[time]

Several times you can see the reviewer going back to repress a button because it either didn't receive the signal or the phone is very slow at loading menus.

In some places Symbian still wants a double-click (less and less as it's refined on an ongoing basis). Or it could be as I said, you need to actually press the screen like a real button; it's something you get used to. From what I could see of your video, the represses happened at the start of the demo but disappeared as the user acclimatized.

The sliding of menus also looks to be a pain because you have to reach for a scroll bar.

That was fixed in a firmware update early this year. It now works as you hoped.

The reviewer claims the pictures menu loads quickly, but honestly it looks slow to me in comparison to what I'm use to. I have hundreds of pictures on my phone and they don't have to render and load when you go to view them.

That's purely because your thumbnails have been cached, just like on a Windows box. Once the Nokia has scanned the files, it's much faster to load.

Also, what's with having to use a stylus in 2010?

Okay, let's try this again:

Nokia input methods = naked finger or fingernail or glove or plectrum or stylus.

iPhone input methods = naked finger.

The far greater versatility of the Nokia touchscreen allows you to draw Asian language symbols (eg Asian language) or graphics, record handwritten notes, or use handwriting recognition to launch apps etc. In other words, Nokia deliberately chose this type of touchscreen in order to be able to offer more features.

Trade-offs in current touchscreen technology

 

[Handruin]

In some places Symbian still wants a double-click (less and less as it's refined on an ongoing basis). Or it could be as I said, you need to actually press the screen like a real button; it's something you get used to. From what I could see of your video, the represses happened at the start of the demo but disappeared as the user acclimatized.


That was fixed in a firmware update early this year. It now works as you hoped.


That's purely because your thumbnails have been cached, just like on a Windows box. Once the Nokia has scanned the files, it's much faster to load.


Okay, let's try this again:

Nokia input methods = naked finger or fingernail or glove or plectrum or stylus.

iPhone input methods = naked finger.

The far greater versatility of the Nokia touchscreen allows you to draw Asian language symbols (eg Asian language) or graphics, record handwritten notes, or use handwriting recognition to launch apps etc. In other words, Nokia deliberately chose this type of touchscreen in order to be able to offer more features.

Trade-offs in current touchscreen technology

That's good to hear they've improved the UI from the video I watched. I'll look for more recent reviews.

I'm still not sold on needing a stylus. I can see its use for what you described, but I can't see how that really fits a US market very well or even my own needs. I've never had a desire to draw or write handwritten notes on my phone and I've yet to be in a situation where I would need that. Sure, it's a neat feature that's been around for a while, but seems to have limited use.

Using your phone while having your gloves on seems like a great feature, but after using the smooth touch of an iPhone, I wouldn't want to go to a pressure sensitive phone like that Nokia unless my location demanded it (such as living in the brittle cold of alaska or Canada). One could simply use a bluetooth headset and not even need to reach for the phone if a phone call was so pressing that you had to answer it in the freezing cold and you were too scared to remove a glove. It never bothers me, but I also rarely wear gloves even here in the New England climate. The trade-off between a smooth scrolling light touch UI vs a pressure touch and less smooth, I'd choose the former.

I'd sill like to know why you think this phone smashes the iPhone to pieces. I can see it being a very functional phone, but nothing really screams out to me that is so much better. The price is close ($260 vs $299), so there is no huge win there either. With the newer iPhone OS announcement, there will be even more functionality and updates available to us Apple users.

 

[Howell]

The far greater versatility of the Nokia touchscreen allows you to draw Asian language symbols (eg Asian language) or graphics, record handwritten notes, or use handwriting recognition to launch apps etc. In other words, Nokia deliberately chose this type of touchscreen in order to be able to offer more features.

You do not need a stylus to draw; so I'm not sure we were supposed to take that argument seriously. All the iPhone would need to enable handwriting recognition today is the software; this is not an inherent limitation in the screen technology. It does voice recognition fine; with a single one second press I can call any one of my contacts. I do wish the voice recognition was at the OS level so I could dictate emails but I realize this is a tall order.

I find the need to wear gloves in a sterile environment a far more compelling reason to need to use a stylus than the cold. Medical practice is supposed to be "the big market" for iPads. In that case, use this. One of my coworkers uses his nose when its cold outside. I'm gonna have to start calling him Mavin Johnson.

One of the main problems I have found with UIs designed with a stylus in mind is that the UI is designed too small to operate effectively with a finger. It's like they know people have access to a stylus so they cram the screen so full of hot spots that you can't use it with something larger than a stylus. I had that problem with my old Winmoble.

Apple has managed to capture 16.6% of the market share (and increasing year over year for the previous two) with what amounts to one phone model (with regards to UI) and one carrier and without shipping with a stylus. And they don't even have becoming market leader as a goal.

 

[DrunkenBastard]

"One of my coworkers uses his nose when its cold outside. "

Clearly that UI has yet to be fully developed. Multiouch with the tongue? Hope it is indeed a sterile environment.Patent pending?

 

[Handruin]

There is an iPhone 4.0 hands-on demo here.

 

[Sol]

Thanks, I will have to check into this. Do you know off the top of your head if that does turn by turn directions or is it more like the google maps implementation?



Actually no incoming calls might be great. :bglaugh:

It does have turn by turn, although I can't really tell you how good it is (It doesn't work very well when you are indoors and not moving...). I don't really use turn by turn because I don't have a car... Perhaps ironically it's only checking that it works for you that caused me to discover that you can tell it you're walking (Definitely have to try that as it's the most annoying thing about most GPS systems I've used). The search seems to be pretty crap when you're not on line unfortunately. Addresses it can do, names of places less so. I'd hope it'd do better on line but when I'm on line I have Google maps and I doubt it'll do that well... But if you plan ahead, find the place you want to go before you leave home and mark it on the map then it'll help you get there.

I've played with an iPhone a couple of times, I found the UI to be pretty cool, some minor annoyances but nothing I don't think I'd get used to in short order.
Multitasking would mainly be useful for communication apps (VOIP, IM) and music apps. But it's a mobile communications device/music player so I guess those aren't really that important...
I don't really listen to music and I only really use my phone for VOIP and IM and occasionally looking things up so the iPhone actually wouldn't be that useful for me. Plus most of what I'd want to do would need 3rd party apps and I just couldn't trust Apple enough not to back track and effectively kill functionality I need, turning a half paid for 500+ quid phone in to a music player I don't listen to that can make calls on a network I don't use.

I think the iPhone is a pretty good phone... But I don't think it's worth the control you have to give Apple to get it. It's like Benjamin Franklin said, but not enough like to quote him here...

 

[Howell]

Plus most of what I'd want to do would need 3rd party apps and I just couldn't trust Apple enough not to back track and effectively kill functionality I need, turning a half paid for 500+ quid phone in to a music player I don't listen to that can make calls on a network I don't use.

From what I could research Apple doesn't have the ability to remove apps from your phone even if they are removed from the iStore or whatever its called. Once you've bought them they are yours.

 

[MaxBurn]

I think the iPhone is a pretty good phone... But I don't think it's worth the control you have to give Apple to get it. It's like Benjamin Franklin said, but not enough like to quote him here...

If it wasn't for their practices I would have gotten one years ago.

 

[time]

You do not need a stylus to draw

Finger painting? I didn't think you could produce fine detail or usable Asian language characters with your thumbs ...

You need a special stylus with a huge, soft tip that doesn't work very well - most people prefer their finger.

Look, I actually think the capacitive screens are more user-friendly for most people - I was the one that pointed that out earlier - but it's stupid to deny the technical realities of the different technologies. I suggest you read up on it.

 

[time]

From what I could research Apple doesn't have the ability to remove apps from your phone even if they are removed from the iStore or whatever its called. Once you've bought them they are yours.

Guess again.

 

[Howell]

Finger painting? I didn't think you could produce fine detail or usable Asian language characters with your thumbs ...

You need a special stylus with a huge, soft tip that doesn't work very well - most people prefer their finger.

:roll::wink:

You don't have to use your thumbs, I think most people do use their finger.
I can certainly envision a system that would allow work just fine for hanzi and pinyin.

Look, I actually think the capacitive screens are more user-friendly for most people - I was the one that pointed that out earlier - but it's stupid to deny the technical realities of the different technologies.

Pardon me, I didn't know that's what you meant by "it smashes iPhones into little pieces of apple". :tounge:

I've referred to that article several times in years that is has been around. My point is that technical capabilities are one thing; implementation is another. As always its not how big it is; its how you use it.

When something better comes out I will use it. Otherwise, I'll stay right where I am.

 

[Howell]

Guess again.

That is disconcerting.

 

[Handruin]

Much to my amazement the Opera mini browser was approved in the Apple store.

 

[Pradeep]

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=18111

No external memory expansion for Windows Mobile 7.

"Microsoft's Todd Brix says that denying users access to replaceable memory makers for a "simpler" and "more satisfying" user experience."

Thanks Todd. I know I just don't understand what a memory card is, after all it's not like digital cameras and many other digital devices have them, or that phone devices that you are not even yet competing with until perhaps October currently come with 16GB MicroSD cards bundled (Droid).

 

[mubs]

Jackasses. First they disable cut/cop & paste "because it makes for a better user experience" (just how, idiots?). Then, no multi-tasking. Hey, didn't the guys you're trying so hard to catch up with just announce that they're going to support multi-tasking in a few months? And didn't that same company start out with no copy-paste but add it in a later OS rev? Whatever they're smoking in redmond, it's bad stuff.

Android is looking more and more attractive. There was a report in the business press here today that HTC has made an explicit comment that they're seriously exploring having their on sw platform (Palm WebOS?).

 

[Pradeep]

Jackasses. First they disable cut/cop & paste "because it makes for a better user experience" (just how, idiots?). Then, no multi-tasking. Hey, didn't the guys you're trying so hard to catch up with just announce that they're going to support multi-tasking in a few months? And didn't that same company start out with no copy-paste but add it in a later OS rev? Whatever they're smoking in redmond, it's bad stuff.

Android is looking more and more attractive. There was a report in the business press here today that HTC has made an explicit comment that they're seriously exploring having their on sw platform (Palm WebOS?).

Apparently they are smoking the remnants what Jobs toked on 3 years ago.

HTC looks well positioned in the Android space, after dipping their toe in the water with the G1 on T-mobile, they have the Magic, Tatoo, Hero, Desire, and Legend, in addition to the Nexus One:

Given that they were almost completely Windows 6.5 previously, and apparently also OEM for many other companies Windows phones, they've had a remarkable turn around. In the US, they have HTC branding commercials on TV.

30 sec spot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lUkF1vVudA

60 sec spot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-QhxjJFl7E

I could well imagine them doing their own stuff on top of 2.1 etc.

 

[time]

The price is close ($260 vs $299)

Out of curiosity, where did you get $299 from? To buy an iPhone outright (no contract, unlocked) is $499 or $599 - isn't it?

In Oz, the Nokia 5800 is 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of an iPhone. The cheapest Virgin Mobile 2-year plan for the Nokia is AU$19/month (inc tax) whereas the cheapest iPhone (8GB) plan is $49/month.

 

[Handruin]

I would never have bought the iPhone without the contract discount. There is no other carrier to support it here in the US other than AT&T so why bother? I get 30 days to try the phone with AT&T so if I had found their service was terrible, I would have been able to cancel the phone without penalty.

The discounted price of $299 + an early termination fee if needed ($175) is cheaper than the full price ($499 or $599). I bought the 3GS 16GB model for $299, so that's what I was comparing to. I'm guessing that the people who buy the iPhone outright are far and few between.

I don't know what the mobile industry is like in AU. Do you often switch carriers and buy phones without contract? Is there an option to buy the Nokia 5800 at a discount with a contract?

If you want to compare outright purchase price, yes your Nokia is far cheaper. If I had the option to buy the Nokia at a reduced contract price I would also have chosen that as an option. It's hard to compare cheapest plan prices without known what is included. If you're on a budget and only need the basics, the Nokia + Virgin @ $19/month sounds like a great deal. Do you get any data service for that cost?

 

[time]

When the iPhone 3GS came out late last year, commentators seemed to think it wasn't much different, so I didn't take any notice. Now that Handruin has objected to me belittling his pride and joy, I realize that in fact the 3GS (or possibly OS 3.0?) is a very big step up.

The Nokia 5800 was released in late 2008 and is now end-of-life. Consequently, it's very cheap and quite a bargain. As requested, here's the advantages that I know of:

1. Autofocus camera. I don't care about the 3 vs 2MP, but autofocus means it's actually useful closer than 6m/20ft away. Also has a decent macro function, for taking pics of bugs etc. * fixed on the 3GS
2. Video camera. Pretty basic feature. * fixed on the 3GS
3. Camera flash.
4. Second (facing) camera for video calls.
5. Can actually do video calls. * fixed on the 3GS
6. Voice recording. * fixed on the 3GS - I think?
7 Voice dialing. * fixed on the 3GS
8. Stereo speakers. Not as good as the amazing old Motorola E1000, which was like a mini boombox, but still way better than most phones.
9. AD2P stereo Bluetooth. * fixed on the 3GS
10. Bluetooth file sharing.
11. FM Radio. Stupid omission by Apple.
12. Micro-SD slot, comes with 8GB and accepts up to 32GB (16GB officially). * Now that the 3GS comes with 16GB as minimum, I think this has become less important. Indeed, Nokia's thinner successor has 16 or 32G hard-wired
13. 50% higher screen resolution (although the screen is slightly smaller).
14. Narrower body (51.7 vs 62.1mm) makes it much more suitable for women.
15. Lighter weight (109 vs 133g).
16. Removable battery. * At least in the 3GS, the battery is no longer soldered in! Still bad on a SmartPhone in particular
17. Miscellaneous functions such as Cut and paste, Saving email attachments, Message forwarding, Multiple SMS deletion, Sending SMS to multiple recipients and Multimedia messages (MMS 1.3). * at least some of these are fixed on the 3GS
18. Multi-tasking. Bit of a no-brainer, this one. Our only current phone that lacks this is a $25 Samsung.
19. It's not an Apple product. If you need it fixed, you can take it to a Nokia service center. Google returns 156,000 matches for "Nokia service sucks", 3,110,000 for "iPhone service sucks" and 4,950,000 for "Apple service sucks".

I mentioned the drawbacks earlier in this thread.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have one myself - although it's certainly tempting at the current pricing - but it does highlight how little you get for your money when you buy Apple.

 

[time]

Is there any phone that has GPS that is usable without a service contract?

Nokia 5800 unlocked for $260.

So what you're saying is that it's a big heavy $260 brick? That sounds useful.

Etc, etc, etc ...

 

[Pradeep]

It appears that iphone OS 4 aka multi tasking will only be supported on the 3rd gen of iphone (3GS).

The previous models don't have the hardware grunt to support multitasking according to Apple.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/multitasking-comes-to-iphone-os-4-0/

"Here's a big "lose some" -- only the iPhone 3GS and 3rd generation (late 2009) iPod touch will support multitasking. The iPhone 3G and below won't -- Steve says the hardware doesn't support it. Sad face."

Android on the other hand doesn't even need a task manager, the task scheduler working in a proper fashion and killing off bits as needed, a more granular version of Linux 2.6:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=622666

 

[Handruin]

When the iPhone 3GS came out late last year, commentators seemed to think it wasn't much different, so I didn't take any notice. Now that Handruin has objected to me belittling his pride and joy, I realize that in fact the 3GS (or possibly OS 3.0?) is a very big step up.

Thanks for taking the time to validate your claims. Many here who bitch about the iPhone never do, so it's nice to see some data. I do enjoy my iPhone but I'm not a die hard loyalist. If I find a phone that I like better, I'll be all over it.

The Nokia 5800 was released in late 2008 and is now end-of-life. Consequently, it's very cheap and quite a bargain. As requested, here's the advantages that I know of:

1. Autofocus camera. I don't care about the 3 vs 2MP, but autofocus means it's actually useful closer than 6m/20ft away. Also has a decent macro function, for taking pics of bugs etc. * fixed on the 3GS
2. Video camera. Pretty basic feature. * fixed on the 3GS

3. Camera flash.

Really? My old samsung had what they called a flash which was nothing more than a really bright LED. Is that what the Nokia 5800 has? If so...is it even useful?

4. Second (facing) camera for video calls.
5. Can actually do video calls. * fixed on the 3GS
6. Voice recording. * fixed on the 3GS - I think?

I can record voice on my 3GS. Is there a specific situation, or just in general like voice memos? I think I'm also able to record phone call conversations.

7 Voice dialing. * fixed on the 3GS
8. Stereo speakers. Not as good as the amazing old Motorola E1000, which was like a mini boombox, but still way better than most phones.
9. AD2P stereo Bluetooth. * fixed on the 3GS
10. Bluetooth file sharing.

There are 3rd party apps for bluetooth file sharing (Bump is the first that comes to mind) on the iPhone that are free to download. This feature isn't native from what I've seen in the 3.0 OS.

11. FM Radio. Stupid omission by Apple.
12. Micro-SD slot, comes with 8GB and accepts up to 32GB (16GB officially). * Now that the 3GS comes with 16GB as minimum, I think this has become less important. Indeed, Nokia's thinner successor has 16 or 32G hard-wired
13. 50% higher screen resolution (although the screen is slightly smaller).
14. Narrower body (51.7 vs 62.1mm) makes it much more suitable for women.

The Nokia is 15.5 mm thick where as the 3GS is 12.3 mm thick. That would bother me more than width since I keep my phone in my pocket. That's a personal preference though.

15. Lighter weight (109 vs 133g).
16. Removable battery. * At least in the 3GS, the battery is no longer soldered in! Still bad on a SmartPhone in particular
17. Miscellaneous functions such as Cut and paste, Saving email attachments, Message forwarding, Multiple SMS deletion, Sending SMS to multiple recipients and Multimedia messages (MMS 1.3). * at least some of these are fixed on the 3GS

Regarding item 17, all those features are available on the 3GS with some limitations to the email attachments. I don't know which version of MMS the iPhone uses so I can't say, but the feature works for video and image MMS.

18. Multi-tasking. Bit of a no-brainer, this one. Our only current phone that lacks this is a $25 Samsung.

Since this seems to be a big deal to many, Apple has addressed it in the 4.0 software update and the 3GS gains multi-tasking ability. That is estimated to be available by the summer time in the US (june, July).

19. It's not an Apple product. If you need it fixed, you can take it to a Nokia service center. Google returns 156,000 matches for "Nokia service sucks", 3,110,000 for "iPhone service sucks" and 4,950,000 for "Apple service sucks".

I mentioned the drawbacks earlier in this thread.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have one myself - although it's certainly tempting at the current pricing - but it does highlight how little you get for your money when you buy Apple.

I'll be using the Apple service eventually. I cracked the back of my case and when I went in to ask them about it, they said they would swap the entire phone at no charge. All I needed was to use the backup feature in iTunes which is a pretty simple process. I'll let you know how the experience is once I've done this.

Your google search for proving service sucks is hardly a measure with any credit. Perhaps the reason there are more hits for iPhone are because there are more of them out in service? I'd base first hand experience over a google search return. I'm also capable of telling you the truth if the apple support experience sucks, I won't hide that. Have you had any first hand with Nokia?

No one ever seems to notice the nice feature of being on a phone call and also being able to use the internet. Much like stereodude's comment about how iPhone users will enjoy multi-tasking once it has been delivered, I think you'll find that once all the other phone carriers get simultaneous voice and data, you'll find you're using it more than you think. I was just on the phone with my parents last night and we're trying to plan a trip. Part of the discussion involved me talking with them while looking at my online calendar and also the weather related to that area and time. That was a very nice feature to put to use.

Overall from your list I see small bits here and there that have a feature advantage, but certainly nothing that wows me. I still can't see how the phone smashes the iPhone to pieces.

 

[timwhit]

Steve just decided a couple days before Adobe Creative Suite CS5 was released that in order to write code for the iPhone it has to be written in C, C++, or Objective-C. I don't care how great the iPhone is, this is just ridiculous.

 

[time]

I don't know what the mobile industry is like in AU. Do you often switch carriers and buy phones without contract? Is there an option to buy the Nokia 5800 at a discount with a contract?

We have 3 (down from 4) carriers, as well as bunch of telcos that resell that capacity. All three networks are national, i.e. they compete against each other across most of this wide brown land (where you can actually get reception, that is).

People use either prepaid or postpaid (account) plans, the latter usually being 24-month contracts that continue on a month-to-month basis. You can buy a phone bundled with either, or use an existing phone - which you may have bought outright.

Prepaid phones are locked to a carrier and always involve a (modest) up-front cost. They're usually easy to unlock: two of our current phones were bought as cheap prepaid bundles and promptly unlocked so they could be used with any carrier. We switched telcos twice with them, it's just a matter of getting a different SIM card and buying credit with the relevant telco/provider. Phone numbers are portable.

Postpaid bundles (contracts) usually don't have an up-front fee; since 24-months became the norm, it's been apportioned across the period of the contract. Consequently, breaking the contract can be prohibitively expensive.

Do you get any data service for that cost?

Very good question. Most plans have truly horrific data charges, however Virgin Mobile isn't too bad, offering 300MB for an extra $6 over the $19 I mentioned. That's also the quota offered on the $49 iPhone plan. An extra gigabyte will cost you $15. If you exceed that, the per gigabyte rate is an absolutely terrifying $2000/gigabyte. ale:

 

[Handruin]

The industry sounds very similar to the US except that we might have more telcos. The major ones I can think of are Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, Virgin Mobile and a large list of others I'm not familiar with.

We also have the 12 or 24 month contracts, but in most cases the 24 month is pushed with higher discounts on equipment.

Your data rates are very expensive! For the $29.99 (- 20% discount = ~$24) I pay (with, they give the marketing offering of unlimited but with the fine print reading 5GB/month. I'm looking at my usage and since October 2009 I've done 169MB sent and 1.2GB received in data usage.

Wow, $2000/gig is horrific.

 

[time]

Really? My old samsung had what they called a flash which was nothing more than a really bright LED. Is that what the Nokia 5800 has? If so...is it even useful?

Dual LEDs, not as bright as a Xenon flash, but good for a couple of meters.

Perhaps the reason there are more hits for iPhone are because there are more of them out in service?

That's pretty funny. According to Gartner, in 3rd quarter 2009 Apple had 17.1% of the (worldwide) SmartPhone market, Nokia had 39.3%. Over the full year, Apple sold almost 25 million phones, Nokia sold 441 million.

In the last year or so, I've had first hand experience with Samsung, S*ny Ericsson and Nokia service.

Samsung was pretty good.

S*ny was absolute sh*t - two phones, multiple problems, eventually I just gave up. Fortunately, the older models we still have are bulletproof.

Nokia had by far the fastest service, less than 24hr turnaround for an older phone under warranty. However, telephone support for the 5800 was less than inspiring, albeit honest. When I complained about intermittent problems with the included MicroSD card, they admitted they would only format the card and see what happened. I also couldn't book it in over the phone. In the end I just bought a new card, it was far too cheap to fight a battle over.

 

[Handruin]

That's pretty funny. According to Gartner, in 3rd quarter 2009 Apple had 17.1% of the (worldwide) SmartPhone market, Nokia had 39.3%. Over the full year, Apple sold almost 25 million phones, Nokia sold 441 million.

Sorry for the confusion, I meant iPhone compared to Nokia 5800, not all of Apple vs all of Nokia. I guess the 5800 could have sold more units, but I don't know specific models sold.

 

[Chewy509]

that in order to write code for the iPhone it has to be written in C, C++, or Objective-C. I don't care how great the iPhone is, this is just ridiculous.

Not really. Apple don't allow JVMs, CLRs or interpreted code of any sort to run on the phone, so that rules out .NET, Java, Perl, Python, etc. That only leaves C/C++/ObjC as major languages that don't fit in the above restrictions. Making that mandated seems like a normal thing for Apple based products. (If that decision leads to a better platform for the end user, then I'll all for it).

I can only guess that the JVM/CLR/interpreted restriction is due to perceived performance issues with languages that are compiled or interpreted at run time. But recent developments in the Sun Java 1.6u10+ JVM with HotSpot compiler have shown that Java can execute faster than the same code written in C/C++/ObjC, so the performance point of view is IMHO dead in the water. And most other phones have JVMs in them. (My current SE mobile has Java 1.6 ME installed, and the Java apps run very well).

Otherwise it's due to licensing costs with those other technologies? eg Java, .NET, etc.

The one comment that strikes me at multi-tasking and what phones will get the updated OS? Is the iPhoneOS that resource heavy (or poorly structured) and selection of a barely capable CPU the reason for that, as I've seen 1MHz 6502 CPUs and 4.77MHz 8086 CPUs multi-task quite happily.

 

[Chewy509]

S*ny was absolute sh*t - two phones, multiple problems, eventually I just gave up. Fortunately, the older models we still have are bulletproof.

Out of interest what models of Sony?

My old K800i and my wifes K610i were rock solid from day 1, and their replacements (which we got this past xmas) a W705 has also been rock solid (once we did the firmware update on both of them).

 

[Chewy509]

Your data rates are very expensive!

That's how our telco's make their money. They prey that you go over the spend cap, and then they can rake in the excess charges. (Certain ISPs in Oz use the same tactic, you get ADSL 2+ for $10 mth, but with only 500MB download. Anything over 500MB is charged heavily).

Telstra does offers upfront 'data packs', or pay as you go (which is $2 per MB).

The $29 data pack gives you 300MB and 25c /MB there after.
The $59 data pack gives you 1GB and 25c /MB there after.
and the $119 data pack gives you 9GB and 25c/MB there after.

3 Mobile, Optus and Virgin Mobile are similar in the above regard. So are still expensive compared to the US.

 

[Chewy509]

We have 3 (down from 4) carriers, as well as bunch of telcos that resell that capacity. All three networks are national, i.e. they compete against each other across most of this wide brown land (where you can actually get reception, that is).

And if you live or work anyway outside the capitals, you only have 1 real choice...

 

[timwhit]

Not really. Apple don't allow JVMs, CLRs or interpreted code of any sort to run on the phone, so that rules out .NET, Java, Perl, Python, etc. That only leaves C/C++/ObjC as major languages that don't fit in the above restrictions. Making that mandated seems like a normal thing for Apple based products. (If that decision leads to a better platform for the end user, then I'll all for it).

I can only guess that the JVM/CLR/interpreted restriction is due to perceived performance issues with languages that are compiled or interpreted at run time. But recent developments in the Sun Java 1.6u10+ JVM with HotSpot compiler have shown that Java can execute faster than the same code written in C/C++/ObjC, so the performance point of view is IMHO dead in the water. And most other phones have JVMs in them. (My current SE mobile has Java 1.6 ME installed, and the Java apps run very well).

Otherwise it's due to licensing costs with those other technologies? eg Java, .NET, etc.

The one comment that strikes me at multi-tasking and what phones will get the updated OS? Is the iPhoneOS that resource heavy (or poorly structured) and selection of a barely capable CPU the reason for that, as I've seen 1MHz 6502 CPUs and 4.77MHz 8086 CPUs multi-task quite happily.

This isn't about running JVMs or interpreted code, there are various products that will actually generate iPhone compatible binaries. See: Flash CS5 and Unity3D.

Notice that this announcement was made one day before Adobe was to release CS5. It reeks of anti-competitiveness to me.

 

[timwhit]

I'm also hoping that Apple's change of developer terms doesn't affect PhoneGap, which looks like it could be a nice tool for cross-platform development.

 

[Chewy509]

Notice that this announcement was made one day before Adobe was to release CS5. It reeks of anti-competitiveness to me.

I agree, it does have an odd smell...

 

[MaxBurn]

I read somewhere that they can't even write it in another language and use a translator to change to one of the approved languages, now that I thought was complete BS. I can think of a couple reasons for that but really it all comes down to the quality of the translator and the quality of the coding on the original language, baring that why should they care?

Oh and on the opra thing, that was fast:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/14/opera-mini-now-the-number-one-free-download-in-all-22-app-stores/

 

[Handruin]

You guys might like this HAL reference.

 

[Chewy509]

You guys might like this HAL reference.

Very amusing.