long term goals

[Handruin]

I have a very basic question, which might not have a basic answer. I've been asked to outline my goals for the next 5 years at work.

Would anyone else have trouble answering this, or am I the exception? I am able to give them 1-2 years, but 5? Guess I still don't know what I want to do with my life, or maybe this is a sign? :-? Does anyone else ever think of this on their own or because of their job?

 

[Pradeep]

Yeah I was asked this a few months ago. They didn't specifically say 5 years, but what I would like to be doing long-term. I thought about what I was good at, and what I enjoyed, and told the boss. Sure enough a few months later I'm on the way

 

[Fushigi]

Every frickin year... Most of the time I've been quite happy with what I do. And I see my managers always working 10-20 hours/week more than me for what's got to be not that much more $. So why would I move into management? The down side is I'm at somewhat of a peak title-wise. So I've added my security certification and work on other technical education to stay a senior technical staff person. My goal is to continue to advance my technical skills while avoiding the leap into management. I always say that I enjoy what I do and want to keep it that way.

Doug, are there any professional development goals you would like? Certifications? Professional education to enhance your career (could be tangential like project management)? Get a higher level degree? A promotion you'd like? Or a lateral move to do something different?

BTW, there's nothing necessarily wrong with saying you like what you do and wouldn't mind staying in that role. However, most managers have a mistaken sense that you have to grow/change/advance in order to meet some elusive goal. They seem to fail to realize that maintaining the status quo is also a goal.

 

[mubs]

This is the usual BS that is supposed to be asked at interviews and performance reviews. Who the fricking hell really knows? You have to BS back. They know they're BSing, you know you're BSing, and everybody is happy.

For some clarity on issues like this, visit Ask The Headhunter. I've been a subscriber to Nick's email newsletter for about 18 months, and boy, do I wish more people would use his no-nonsense approach. There's a lot of material on the site, but it's absolutely worth every second you spend there.

All the best!

 

[RWIndiana]

You guys may consider me a religious zealot (and you would be right) but this is the answer I stick with to a certain degree when asked that question:

Matthew 6:34
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the
morrow shall take thought for the things of itself.
Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Sort of simplifies things.

 

[Handruin]

All good info, I'll have to address independently:

Yeah I was asked this a few months ago. They didn't specifically say 5 years, but what I would like to be doing long-term. I thought about what I was good at, and what I enjoyed, and told the boss. Sure enough a few months later I'm on the way

I thought about what I was good at, or mostly what interests me and I don't think it fits in with what I do now, nor what my current position can offer. I feel that passing this information along is like shooting myself in the foot.

Every frickin year... Most of the time I've been quite happy with what I do. And I see my managers always working 10-20 hours/week more than me for what's got to be not that much more $. So why would I move into management? The down side is I'm at somewhat of a peak title-wise. So I've added my security certification and work on other technical education to stay a senior technical staff person. My goal is to continue to advance my technical skills while avoiding the leap into management. I always say that I enjoy what I do and want to keep it that way.

Doug, are there any professional development goals you would like? Certifications? Professional education to enhance your career (could be tangential like project management)? Get a higher level degree? A promotion you'd like? Or a lateral move to do something different?

BTW, there's nothing necessarily wrong with saying you like what you do and wouldn't mind staying in that role. However, most managers have a mistaken sense that you have to grow/change/advance in order to meet some elusive goal. They seem to fail to realize that maintaining the status quo is also a goal.

I see the same as you, where my manager will end up working more hours than me, but I have little doubt he is much higher in pay. I'm not, however interested in a management role. I'd much rather be finding a solution to a problem, or troubleshooting an issue than directing people. I'm also not interested in the political agendas that are typically faced by management. I've been taking plenty of classes lately, not all that I want, but some that are beneficial. Most of my technical advancement so far has been self taught by reading from online material. I get frustrated that I'm not learning enough, and not fast enough. Most classes ten to bore me, especially when there is no hands-on labs.

There are definitely professional goals/certifications, and I thank you for reminding me of that. I think this alone will help me out tremendously for filling out my 5 year plan. I would definitely like to become more "computer science" aware. I've already taken a condensed Java programming course from learning tree, which I might add was one of the better classes I've taken in a really long time. I'd like to learn the fundamentals of C++, and eventually assembly. I've missed all of these during my schooling because I wasn't a Computer Science major. As silly as it sounds, I'd like to become a php certified engineer. I don't know if the certification is worth much right now, but I at least enjoy using php. In the past I was interested in the MCSE, but from what I've gathered, it's not worth it. I could probably try for the A+, and maybe something else, but I don't really have a grasp of what is available, or what is beneficial when I don't really know which direction I'm aiming for. :-?

I don't really want to stay where I am, in terms of knowledge and experience. There is so much for me to learn, that I want to move into something new and grow from it. Right now I'm leaning towards programming, but I'm not good at it. Nor am I really sure it's something I'll enjoy if I ever do become efficient at it.

This is the usual BS that is supposed to be asked at interviews and performance reviews. Who the fricking hell really knows? You have to BS back. They know they're BSing, you know you're BSing, and everybody is happy.

For some clarity on issues like this, visit Ask The Headhunter. I've been a subscriber to Nick's email newsletter for about 18 months, and boy, do I wish more people would use his no-nonsense approach. There's a lot of material on the site, but it's absolutely worth every second you spend there.

All the best!

I don't know, and I'm glad to hear others are in the same position! I'm going to read through that site tomorrow when I have more time. Thanks for giving me the link, I'll look through the info.

You guys may consider me a religious zealot (and you would be right) but this is the answer I stick with to a certain degree when asked that question:

Matthew 6:34
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the
morrow shall take thought for the things of itself.
Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Sort of simplifies things.

If I take it at face value, I could literally sit on my couch for the rest of my life waiting for tomorrow to make my goal. I don't really think that was the point, but I'm not going to wait on fate to solve this problem. One could argue that anything I do is the result of fate, but I find that too philosophical to dive into without a little more rest for the brain.

Thanks everyone for the feedback so far.

 

[Mercutio]

I would get up and walk out if someone asked me that question with the expectation of a serious answer.

If someone had asked me five years ago what I would be doing today, the answer would be very, very, very different from reality.

 

[RWIndiana]

If I take it at face value, I could literally sit on my couch for the rest of my life waiting for tomorrow to make my goal.

Hee hee. That you could, if you base your life on a misrepresentation of a single verse. Fact is, we have no idea what is in store. What this verse really means is that we have no need to worry and fret. Doesn't mean we shouldn't work hard. In fact, waiting for tomorrow to bring us work is the same as taking thought for tomorrow, when we should be working today and not waiting until tomorrow.
It also says:

Galations 6:4
But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in
himself alone, and not in another.

1Thess. 4:11
And that ye study to be quiet, and to do
your own business, and to work with your
own hands, as we commanded you;


Now if my life would continue on the current course, I would probably be a plumber and get rich in about 5-10 years. Ha. I love messing with computers and all our neighbors think I can fix any computer problem (they are probably right, if I'm given enough time), but I also can't stand sitting down for long periods of time staring at a computer screen. I like somewhat physically demanding work. I found college to be incredibly boring. One thing that might excite me is being a doctor. My handwriting is appropriate.

 

[RWIndiana]

One could argue that anything I do is the result of fate,

Ooh, that borders on Buddhism. . . don't want to go there. Heh.

 

[Mercutio]

You're right. You do sound like a religious zealot.

 

[i]

What this verse really means is that we have no need to worry and fret.

Umm ... huh? I think you would have been better off saying, "What this verse means to me is that we have no need to worry and fret."

To me, it was nearly nonsensical.

Any decent-sized chunk of literature is subject to interpretation. But some elements of some organized religions try to convince people otherwise when it comes to certain pieces of literature. I find that interesting. So please, don't consider this an attempt to convert today into "give RWIndiana a hard time day".

As you were. 8)

 

[Handruin]

I felt the same way i. I (me) interpreted it differently than RWIndiana, but I (me again) assumed the literature and religious sense was trying to be much deeper than I wanted to read. Like i, I'm not trying to give you a hard time either.

Man your name creates more thought of the use I, i. :mrgrn:

 

[Buck]

Actually, the explanation is in the previous verses. Matthew 6:34 is the conluding verse to a particular thought Jesus was conveying. When read in context and especially with additional scriptures on the same thought, the meaning of Matthew 6:34 becomes clear.

 

[RWIndiana]

You're right, I guess the meaning can seem more obscure when just looking at a single verse. Sorry.

 

[LunarMist]

You guys may consider me a religious zealot (and you would be right) but this is the answer I stick with to a certain degree when asked that question:

Matthew 6:34
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the
morrow shall take thought for the things of itself.
Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Sort of simplifies things.

Are you serious :?: I have received some strange responses when doing performance reviews, but nothing like that. One would not necessarily consider you to be a religious zealot, but that could be construed as an inappropriate, "smart-ass" response.

 

[Fushigi]

I definitely keep religion out of discussions at work. Besides not really belonging in the workplace (unless religion is the nature of the business), it can be misconstrued as another form of harassment. (Another reason, BTW, I don't care for GWB; he forces his religion on those around him at his workplace instead of just letting it provide him with guiding principles.)

I'm not saying it doesn't have it's place. Your beliefs should certainly guide your decisions. But the expression and enacting of those beliefs can easily be achieved without religious overtones.

 

[RWIndiana]

But the expression and enacting of those beliefs can easily be achieved without religious overtones.

Sorry That doesn't compute. lol

Are any of you at all offended by what I wrote? I thought I was just answering a question. :-? I was just quoting a book, which some consider to be Holy (just so happens that I do too). I just don't understand why people think those who ARE religious have to live double lives?
I'm not sure why you think our current president (if that's who you are referring to) forces religion on those he works with. Do you work with him? If so, then I will have to take your word for it.

 

[LunarMist]

Are any of you at all offended by what I wrote? I thought I was just answering a question. :-? I was just quoting a book, which some consider to be Holy (just so happens that I do too).

No, but for sure people in the workplace could be offended. Just because they do not say anything does not mean that they are not hurt. So show some sensitivity towards other cultures and beliefs and keep those opinions to yourself. Work is hard enough as it is and dealing with employees who don't understand the concept is not fun either.

 

[cquinn]

Sorry That doesn't compute. lol

Perhaps that is part of the problem.

I'm not offended by the idea of you quoting scripture any more
than I would be of someone quoting the Bhagavad Gita. the
writings of Confucious, or the seminars of Zig Ziglar or
Tony Robbins. What gets me (as evidenced by this thread)
is the attitude that repeating someone elses statements of
wisdom should be enough in itself to carry your own thoughts,
ideals (and goals) forward.

This is not meant as a flame, but I (imho) would probably be
more receptive to you quoting verse if you followed it up with
as statement of what the verse means to you and your goals,
instead of presenting it as an answer unto itself.

Are any of you at all offended by what I wrote? I thought I was just answering a question. :-? I was just quoting a book, which some consider to be Holy (just so happens that I do too). I just don't understand why people think those who ARE religious have to live double lives?

I'm not sure why you think our current president (if that's who you are referring to) forces religion on those he works with. Do you work with him? If so, then I will have to take your word for it.[/quote]

 

[cquinn]

Sorry about the second part of that reply, I thought I edited that out.

 

[RWIndiana]

Good point cquinn, I will try to remember that. Thanks!

 

[Fushigi]

But the expression and enacting of those beliefs can easily be achieved without religious overtones.

Sorry That doesn't compute. lol

Ridiculous example: Take the 10 Commandments. You don't have to announce to the work that you aren't committing theft, adultery, murder, etc. The mere actions (or inactions as the case may be) demonstrate your living up to the standard.

On a more subtle level, you can live your life by following the principles of the bible. To you, and perhaps to those around you, you are demonstrating and living your faith. Those same principles of honesty, fairness, forgiveness, etc. can guide your life. But you don't have to shout it from the rooftops. The interesting thing about doing this is that most religions are very similar WRT the way their followers should behave. So we could all be happy and productive members of society without even knowing what religion our friends and colleagues are. And since an atheist may have their own code of ethics they subscribe to, they may not behave any differently on a day to day basis either.

You actions will speak far louder than your words. Now, on a forum you are represented by your words. But in this context the words you type represent your actions: reply with thoughtfulness, flame, don't reply at all for various reasons, etc. are all actions that your words represent. I am trying to repond with thoughtfulness right now, for instance (just to be clear as I mean no offense to you or anyone else).

Are any of you at all offended by what I wrote?

Not particularly. But then I will generally just gloss over quoted scripture. The reason I do this is that the bible can be summed up in 2 words. I think they wrote the big book to give preachers something to talk about on Sundays.

The words? "Be nice." A more elongated form is "Be excellent to each other" and comes courtesy of Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure.

I just don't understand why people think those who ARE religious have to live double lives?

Just to be clear: I'm not advocating you separate your professional/on-line persona from your religion. I'm saying that they can coexist in a manner that allows you to demonstrate your adherence to your faith without offending others.

I'm not sure why you think our current president (if that's who you are referring to) forces religion on those he works with. Do you work with him? If so, then I will have to take your word for it.

I have participated in a President's Council on information security. However, GWB was not personally involved. It was part of the (severely underfunded) infosec group within the DHS.

Anyway, in modern America we have an assumption that the government should be neutral WRT religion. (This does differ a little from the founding fathers, but then things are not as they were 200+ years ago.) This neutrality should mean that no religion is favored over another or even over a lack of religion (atheism). Just listen to GWB speak and you will hear him intoning his Christian faith in his political speeches. This is bad. As I mentioned above, the points and beliefs he wants to make can easily be made without mentioning his patron deity and his faith. They way his speeches come out make it sound like Christianity is the state religion & we should all follow it. I, a baptized Christian (were you wondering?), am deeply offended by his pushing his religion on the country. Many of his actions are influenced more by his faith than by what is the best for the country.