Mini-review: Sapphire Radeon 9000 VIVO

[Mercutio]

I bought a half-dozen Sapphire Radeon 9000 VIVOs for one of my classrooms. Some high points: $75 for composite video in and out, and Svideo in and out, and a passively cooled Radeon 9000. This card uses the newer MMC 7.7 capture software, with "One Touch Record" and a skinnable interface. Visual quality is at the high standard ATI has set with recent cards, at least for 2D and composite video inputs.

Low points: I had hoped that the Sapphire cards might include a remote, like the slightly-more-expensive Radeon 7500 AIW. Nothin' doin'. Also, the capture software isn't on the install CD. I don't know what kind of communist plot that is, but I had to go all the way to ATI's web site to get the software I needed. You'd think they could at least throw a note in the box to indicate their ommission.

I haven't tested any 3D features yet, nor do I plan to, but I *did* have time to do a side-by-side comparison between the ATI card and an Asus V7700 VIVO (that's a GF2MX), and the difference between the two is just stunning. The Asus card was composite input was blotchy and somehow unfocused, even in a standard 640x480 window, while the ATI-based card retained its original quality even at fullscreen resolutions.

In the end, I just thought I'd say some nice things about a great, no-frills way to do PC video recording.

 

[blakerwry]

That sounds exactly like what I need for my SB51G if i want to make it a HTPC... that and a kick ass sound card.. the TBSC is nice, but a high end Hercules sound card would be better... too bad Hercules sucks.

 

[CityK]

Asus V7700 VIVO (that's a GF2MX)

7700 series uses the GF2 GTS or Ultra...the 7100 line uses the GF2MX...I suspect a typo because:

The Asus card was composite input was blotchy and somehow unfocused, even in a standard 640x480 window

And that sounds an aweful lot like my Asus 7100 DC's in/out capabilities

[as a side note, the 7100 DC is a cheap A-I-W alternative, and it does indeed function very well in its TV-tuner/capture role - despite utilizing an older Philips 7113H chipset...better than the likes of BT8** IMO]

CK

 

[Mercutio]

Mighta been. Have to admit that I don't particularly care. The capture software locked up XP every time I tried to install it (yes, I had the XP version of the software) - had to do comparison testing in 98, and of course the thing had the usual GF2 2D blurriness.

 

[Yash]

... that and a kick ass sound card...

you might want to check out the M-Audio Revolution 7.1....stunning sound quality at a low price

 

[Jan Kivar]

That sounds exactly like what I need for my SB51G if i want to make it a HTPC... that and a kick ass sound card.. the TBSC is nice, but a high end Hercules sound card would be better... too bad Hercules sucks.

Hmm, is there any difference in sound between any card if You're using sound card that has SPDIF out?

Jan

 

[James]

Please Lord, don't let the "bits are bits/bits ain't bits" discussion start here.

Jan, probably best to go to www.avsforum.com site and search the archives for the HTPC forum. There are pages and pages on this debate, the conclusion of which seems to answer your question as "not necessarily."

 

[Yash]

or check out 3dsoundsurge forums at www.3dss.com

 

[Mercutio]

The problem James is referring to is something called "jitter", which is essentially related to the fact that any two AC electrical devices are on very slightly different electrical phases, creating VERY tiny errors in data transmitted on a digital cable. The anal-retentive dislike of digital audio stems from the fact that there really isn't a way to achieve utterly perfect transmision, even if it IS all ones and zeros. Someone with a more pragmatic outlook just says "It's all ones and zeroes." And thus holy wars are born.

 

[Buck]

What would be better for a business system (maybe a minor game like AOE) in the ATI arena:

Radeon 9000 64MB DDR
Sapphire Radeon 9100 64MB DDR

How would either of these two cards compare with a GeForce4 MX440-T 64MB DDR Memory?

The pricing structure for me is very similar between the two, within a few dollars. I'm thinking of trying higher end ATI products as the Rage XL and Rage 128 have served me well (they work flawlessly with Windows XP). NO, this is not a debate of nVidia or ATI, only a question within the ATI realm (I still sell nVidia video cards).

 

[blakerwry]

i'd say either.

2D Clarity should be similar.

I believe all these cards use a unified type drver (catalyst vs detonator)... so drivers are easy...

If i had the choice between two comparable cads...an ATi made card for the same price as a no-name nVidia, then i'd probably go for the ATi...

 

[e_dawg]

Merc, does this card have TV tuner capabilities? I am thinking of adding TIVO capabilities to my computer, but the price of the AIW solutions are downright scary. I guess I could take a VIVO card or add-on (Pinnacle) and capture TV stuff I recorded on the VCR first using a Sapphire Radeon 9k.

 

[blakerwry]

e_dawg... i thought i needed a TV tuner, so i got the ATi TVwonder.... I have never had to use the TV tuner in it once....

I use a digital cable box and a VCR.. and sometimes a playstation... with it. Who needs coax when you can use composite or S-Video?

If you're like me and just want video input vs the tuning capabilites, then I'd get the VIVO model.

 

[Buck]

blakerboy, I usually sell MSI GeForce cards. I haven't had a failure yet, and they work well with the KT266A and KT400 boards that I use (usually those are Soltek and Gigabyte). But, I would like to try something from ATI. I've used a couple Radeon 7000 cards, but they're not very special (as is to be expected).

 

[Buck]

By the way, the non-Sapphire one is the cheaper card.

 

[Buck]

Thanks for your input, I just went ahead and purchsed two of each and we'll see how it goes.

 

[Mercutio]

ATI-ish VIVO cards have Svideo in and out, and composite in and out. ATI's tuners suck in ways you cannot imagine, at least from an antenna source (don't have cable). The difference between a VIVO and an AIW is the antenna input, which frankly leaves me limp.

I hook my VIVO cards up to a VCR that has a much better (antenna) tuner through its svideo out, and things work beautifully.

TV Wonder VE is an OK solution. The driver install for that thing is nightmarish on 2000 or XP - it take a LOT for me to say that, and it only caps MPEG2, which I wouldn't exactly call a plus.

 

[Buck]

ATI-ish VIVO cards have Svideo in and out, and composite in and out. ATI's tuners suck in ways you cannot imagine, at least from an antenna source (don't have cable). The difference between a VIVO and an AIW is the antenna input, which frankly leaves me limp.

I hook my VIVO cards up to a VCR that has a much better (antenna) tuner through its svideo out, and things work beautifully.

TV Wonder VE is an OK solution. The driver install for that thing is nightmarish on 2000 or XP - it take a LOT for me to say that, and it only caps MPEG2, which I wouldn't exactly call a plus.

Merc, does this translate into any worries for the two cards I just purchased? They will only be used for nice business systems - you know, AMD XP 2100+ and up.

 

[blakerwry]

ATI-ish VIVO cards have Svideo in and out, and composite in and out. ATI's tuners suck in ways you cannot imagine, at least from an antenna source (don't have cable). The difference between a VIVO and an AIW is the antenna input, which frankly leaves me limp.

I hook my VIVO cards up to a VCR that has a much better (antenna) tuner through its svideo out, and things work beautifully.

TV Wonder VE is an OK solution. The driver install for that thing is nightmarish on 2000 or XP - it take a LOT for me to say that, and it only caps MPEG2, which I wouldn't exactly call a plus.

actually, I was thinking the TV wonder can only capture in software or possibly hardware mpg1.... but not hardware AVI or MPG2... (mpg2 has always been a sore spot for this card)

however, through the MMC software you can cap to windows media, AVI, mpg1, or mpg2... I think mpg2 capture might be problematic though...

Or alternatively, you can use software like virtual dub, atv2000, or dscaler to capture in AVI.

 

[e_dawg]

Merc, how do you do timer recordings, then?

 

[Mercutio]

I've installed a couple of TV Wonders. Haven't seen one in awhile but I'll swear up and down it's MPEG-2 only.

I do timer recordings and such with the MMC software. I can use a VCR's timer to turn on if I need to, but if I'm recording off the VCR, I'm almost always going to be putting a tape in, so timing isn't a really big deal.

Buck, the 9000 and 9100 are both good-quality cards, and nothing I said about VIVO or the TV Wonder applies to those cards (unless you bought VIVO models).

 

[blakerwry]

I've installed a couple of TV Wonders. Haven't seen one in awhile but I'll swear up and down it's MPEG-2 only.

I have the 2-3 year old box right here... lol....

                            TV Wonder VE   TV Wonder PCI

Stereo TV tuner                 -               X
win98 Compatible                X               X
Video capture                   X               X
Real-Time video Compression  ATI VCR-1       MPEG-1, ATI VCR-1
Digital VCR                     X               X
Video Magazine                  X               X
Closed Captioning               X               X
Zoom In                         X               X
Sched. Viewing                  X               X
Video Desktop                   X               X
Channel Preview                 X               X
S-Video Input                   -               X

* ATI VCR-1 is a codec for compressing AVI video streams.

i dont believe these cards capture mpg2 correctly with the MMC (resolution is funky.. like 640x240)..