My new toy

[Clocker]

OK, it's not really new. My dad bought it for me in the 1980's and I finally got it out of storage and claimed it as mine. Anybody like to shoot?

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~kharper/ta90_markings.jpg

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~kharper/ta90_rh_open.jpg

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~kharper/ta90_rh.jpg

 

[Pradeep]

Tanfoglio make some nice guns. A friend of mine has one in 9mm, with double stack magazines. Not bad for IPSC Standard division. Personally I like a nice .45 for the slow recoil.

 

[Santilli]

Looks like a CZ 9mm to me.

Any specs on that gun?

I've just converted all my 45's to 45 Super, thanks to a great pistol smith.

OH, I mean, I'm loving life.

gs

 

[e_dawg]

Well, I certainly know where to come if I need a personal security detail... add the gun lovers from SR, and you guys would make a SWAT team nervous

 

[Howell]

Well, I certainly know where to come if I need a personal security detail... add the gun lovers from SR, and you guys would make a SWAT team nervous

My Remington 700 with bull-barrel and bipod was purchased from the SWAT team at a state auction.

Nice looking piece Clocker. Tanfoglio sounds familiar to me. Seems like my dad has an old .22 pistol from them. I prefer a Glock over the 1911-style grip angle.

 

[Santilli]

"glocks=tactical tupperware" :mrgrn:

gs

 

[Pradeep]

"glocks=tactical tupperware" :mrgrn:

gs

LOL, the plastic-fantastic. I don't really like the balance on the Glocks, no weight in the frame at all, everything is in the slide. And the trigger....*shudders*

 

[Clocker]

Good call Greg.

It is a clone of the CZ 75 made by Tanfoglio. The thing is 18 years old now....still looks good!

C

 

[blakerwry]

I've never owned a pistol. But I have a small collection of mostly bolt action rifles. Even my shotgun is bolt action.... just a personal preference. I also own a pump .22 remington from the early 1900's.

 

[Clocker]

Hey Greg...you wanted specs and I forgot. Here are some:

[*]9mm Luger/Parabellum
[*]Double Action
[*]15 Shot Magazine
[*]Satin Chrome Finish

C

 

[Santilli]

Clocker:
Hate to say this, but I hate 9mm because I could never find one that shot as well as a Sig Sauer, BDA 45, or, a Detonics, or any, really good, 1911.

Roomer has it that Sig 210's used to shoot, and the CZ 75 is supposed to be a great value, and accurate.

I'd rather save for a Freedom Arms myself.

gs

 

[Clocker]

Greg-
I've read some really good stuff about the accuracy of the CZ75 when using 124g bullets. There's a good read about how the 124g 9mm is significantly better than the 115g when used in the CZ75 (and clones) because of the higher spin rate afforded by the (revolutionary at the time) 6 groove rifling the CZ75 barrel had. A higher than optimal spin rate can actually cause a degradation in accuracy...the heavier 124g bullet has a higher rotational moment of inertia resulting in a spin rate that is closer to optimal than the 115g bullet would have.

Good info here:

http://pub105.ezboard.com/fczechpistols82792frm25.showMessage?topicID=120.topic

C

 

[blakerwry]

wow, talk about getting fancy with the ammo

 

[Santilli]

Clocker:
The truth is, as cheap as 9mm is, it isn't worth reloading, and, when reloading, the damn bullets are too small for my big, fat fingers to easily seat.

I might buy a Sig, or CZ 9mm, but just don't see a reason. I like big bullets, and 45 Super is my minimum caliber, other then 22lr.

I like 230 grain bullets, at 1100 fps, and, I've found a fantastic pistolsmith, that used to work at colt, that has tuned my 1911's to race gun specs, keeping the chambers locked longer, so higher pressures can be used, slightly, without fear of blowing up cases.

My other pistol caliber is 45 colt/454 Casull, and, 22lr. I'm much more intrested in a marvel conversion for my 1911 Kimber, with an Ed brown trigger, then any 9mm.

Why buy another caliber, when I can have a 22lr that drives tacks, using the same trigger as my favorite SD gun, for less money?

I like to keep my guns to as few calibers as possible, and just get REAL good with the calibers, and guns I have.

By the way, I spent about 5 years shooting the equal to 45 super out of a Detonics, and, I haven't lost much of that motor skill, and hours upon hour of practice...

s

 

[Santilli]

Clocker:
I reloaded, in the 80's, for a number of VERY good shooters.

One had a brand new sig 9mm. I remember loading the 115 hps at well over max book specs, trying to give the guy a real handful.

Turns out, the rounds didn't even CYCLE his gun. I had to eat the entire batch, replace the bullets with max weight for caliber, I think it was 130 grain bullets, and they did function, but not by much.

The only light bullet caliber gun I would own is a class 3, ingram 380.

It was light, had a very high rate of fire, and, the combined weight of the bullets would likely be fatal to the target. Plus, it was fairly concealable.

I had plenty of 9mm, and 380s, and the detonics Mark VI made them all
obselete.

gs

 

[Clocker]

Interesting stuff, greg, although it never was my intention to try to convince you to switch to 9mm.

 

[Santilli]

It's weird, Clocker, that it's so hard to find a really accurate 9mm.

The major problem is usually trigger pull. Brownings are famous for being difficult to get a target trigger.

Don't know about CZ's, but what I like about 1911's is so many parts are made for them, that if you need something, it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

I'd like to find a nice 1911 9mm, one of these days. Maybe that would work.

gs

 

[Santilli]

Good article. Rifling parameters have always been rather clear as far as twist for caliber, and bullet length. Only our government had problems with that, and they wanted a bullet to be unstable, so on entry, it would tumble, causing more damage then a regular non-expanding bullet.

I like longer bullets. Tend to stay on line, and penetrate better, and be more accurate.

I will testify to the accuracy of CZ rifles. They DRIVE tacks. One hole with their 22 long rifle and smaller guns is not unusual, and, the bigger guns all shoot very well, some cloverleafs, and some under 1 inch, depending on caliber and luck.

They are mass produced but, despite that, they still manage to turn out very accurate guns.

gs

 

[Pradeep]

I don't think you are going to get tack driving accuracy out of a .22 conversion kit for a 1911.

Tho it does remind me of the time when one of our older members (80+) pulled out a 1911 in the Air Pistol hall, we thought he'd lost his marbles until out came a pffft, he had an air conversion kit in it!

Problem with 9mm Luger is that you really cannot get much speed out of it, the higher power .38 Supers are better for loading to the max. Or perhaps try a .357 Sig barrel, it's a .40S&W necked down to 9mm. Equivalent to a .357 Magnum revolver, but in auto form with plenty of mag capacity.

 

[Santilli]

http://www.marvelprecision.com/beauty.htm

A NOTE ABOUT OUR TESTING PROCEDURES

Marvel test-fires each and every unit before it is shipped, and we test-fire them a lot. Every single one shipped will shoot under 1” at 50 yards. Now, when we say a Unit will shoot under 1”, we don’t mean once. We don’t mean twice. We mean consistently, time and time again. (Theoretically and mathamatically, any gun is capable of shooting a sub-one-inch group once.) And the target we ship with that unit is not the smallest one it shot - it is an average group from that individual Unit.

While I haven't used one, the Kimber 22lr conversion is supposed to be accurate, as well.

S

 

[Santilli]

http://www.gunblast.com/Paco.htm

Just started playing with the above. See how it works.
I have a .224 barreled Colt Trooper, that is currently being gripped, and reworked by a master smith. This tool makes sure the bullets fit.
The pistol shot thumbnail at 10 yards with high vel ammo. Hopefully,
I can get it to one hole at that range.

http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_Kimber-1911A22.htm

This is another alternative.

But I'd really rather save for one of these:

http://www.gunblast.com/Freedom_97-22.htm

n conclusion, I can state without hesitation that this Freedom Arms Model 97 is the most accurate handgun that I have ever touched to this date.

GS

 

[Pradeep]

Very nice gun. A friend has one in .454 Casull, beautiful quality. Certainly one to get if you can afford it.

 

[Pradeep]

Hmm, I'd take this one over the .22.

http://www.gunblast.com/Freedom_97-32.htm

I had a S&W Mod 16 revolver chambered in .32 H&R Magnum, I used it with .32 S&W Long for Centre Fire match. Fantastic accuracy, out of a 6" barrel, .5" groups at 25m was no probs. I stupidly sold it one day, I still curse myself. The Freedom Arms looks like my salvation.

 

[Clocker]

How about the new model 500 from S&W:

It has the muzzle energy of a 12Ga shotgun slug (about 2600 ft.-lb). Good article in Popular Mechanics if you have it. A good hunting gun in nothing else.

The muzzle energy of 2600 ft.-lb. is more than five times that of a .357 Magnum (500 ft.-lb.) and nearly three times as great as a .44 Magnum (900 ft.-lb.).

 

[Santilli]

Well, the S&W 500 looks more like a 45-70 opened up to .500, to me.

That gun weighs 72 oz, or three pounds more then most handguns.

I think that may just be too big for a handgun. 40 oz is a very heavy big gun to carry around.

I'm not sure the extra 30 oz, and size, is worth the benefits of the cartridge. The 500 Linebaugh is real close in ballistics to the S&W. Good news is the S&W will become cheaper then the 500 Linebaugh, once the gun becomes mainstream. Also a custom Ruger cost at least twice what the S&W does.

For me, a 454, 480, or 500 Linebaugh, or 500 JRH on a freedom arms is plenty, and it comes in a very packable package.

I'm waiting to see if they come out with a smaller gun for this cartridge.

I've heard the muzzle brake on this gun isn't worth much, just reduces muzzle flip.

Well, just had a bad day at the range. Used the accurizer tool on some 22 bullets, but, I changed the scope, and spent most of the day trying to get the rifle to shoot to poa, but, since I didn't have my reading glasses,
I couldn't remember which know did which function, and which one went which way. Result was it was terrible at 50, and finally moved to 25.
At 25 it's centered but about 5 inches high.

I did have fun with the 45 Super. Boy, with 230 grain bullets at 1100
fps it feels a lot like a 44 mag, and, with my really light trigger it doubled once on me. Still, very accurate at 25 yards.Double taps, fast fire, about 12" circle, and a few in the 10 ring, slow fire. That's very good for any 45 acp, at that range, I think.

375 still rips hard. Only fired 6 shots, since for some reason, I just could not hold the rifle on target. Maybe too much coffee, or, more likely the
3+ hours of full court basketball just wore me out, yesterday.

gs

 

[Clocker]

Well, the S&W 500 looks more like a 45-70 opened up to .500, to me.

Hardley...I highly recommend reading the whole article. Especially how they basically had to re-do the double action design and frame to accept the massive loads of the S&W 500 cartridge. Here is the PM article.




Some interesting quotes....

You don't just casually pick up a Model 500. You have to lift it.

Fire even one of those big cartridges and you'll appreciate why the weight and mass are there.

Despite the power of the cartridge, the 500 S&W Magnum is surprisingly controllable. Due largely to the sheer mass of the revolver (combined with the muzzle-heavy balance and an excellent muzzle brake), the violent wrist-wrenching muzzle whip associated with single-action revolvers firing such powerful loads as the .454 Casull and the .475 Linebaugh has been tamed considerably.
In those guns, muzzle rise on recoil can reach 90° and present a hazard to the shooter. With even the heaviest 500 Magnum load tested, muzzle rise was confined to the 50° range and there was never any concern about the shooter wearing an imprint of the front sight in his forehead.

 

[Santilli]

Guys always kid me about my desire for large caliber guns.

I like 45 super, which is close to 44 mag.

I also know exactly what they are talking about as far as the 454/ 45 colt
ripping up, with heavy loads. I'm having my grips redesigned to take the recoil a bit better then a plow handle.

Don't sell the 45-70 short. As you can see here:

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#4570

muzzle energy for the 45-70 is WAY above the S&W 500, by nearly 1000 ft pounds or more.

Also, keep in mind that with the bullets in question, I don't think muzzle energy is of much value. You are not going to get hydrodynamic shock on deer or bigger game, so what you have is a punch press.

I really think bigger bullets are required for large game. My pistolsmith advocates 480-525 grain bullets in his 500 JRH, since the lighter bullets tend not to be real stable on big game. Also, bullet weight is vital to penetration with these size rounds. 500 caliber requires a very heavy bullet to overcome the frontal area on solids, much less hollow points.

Speaking of pistolsmiths, he should be done with dinner...

gs

 

[Clocker]

When your not looking for custom loads etc. where is a good place to get ammo online that is inexpensive? I don't reload (and am not interesting in spending time doing it). Just looking for good inexpensive ammo to have some fun with.

I'm picking up some CCI Blazer 124gr 9mm shells at about $7 a box but would like to find a better deal if possible. I found it cheaper at natchez.com but they are out of stock right now..

Thanks,
C

 

[Santilli]

http://pub105.ezboard.com/fczechpistols82792frm9.showMessage?topicID=436.topic

this thread gives leads to the better deals around.

I usually buy locally. It's because I like to support local business in Kalifornia, because they get screwed by our government, read state, and federal new "hazard" material shipping charges...

gs

 

[Clocker]

Heh heh .

Been there. Done that. :wink:

Any other leads? :?:

THanks,
C

 

[Santilli]

see your email.
s