OK, I give up. (Scriped installs)

[Tea]

OK, I give up.

Now that Kristi has gone to university and I'm the new Queen of the Workshop, there are going to be some changes made. There has got to be an answer out there somewhere, but I can't find it.

I want a script to perform two tasks:

• (a) Configure the Windows desktop the way it should have been configured in the first place. (Turn off desktop eye candy crap, folder view as list, classic start menu for XP, delete useless icons, etc., etc.)
• (b) Install a standard basic set of applications (web browsers, Thunderbird, Ad-Aware, Spybot, a few others) and set appropriate defaults (home pages, default browser, popup blocking on, screen-robbing sidebars off, and so on).

Ghost is not the answer. We regularly use 5 different Windows versions on every imaginable different chipset, with any number of different video cards, sound cards, NICs, and so on.

Microsoft's OEM Preinstallation Kit is not the answer. Apart from the issues mentioned with regard to Ghost above, it is the most user-unfriendly pile of crap I ever saw in my life. The documentation alone would weigh a couple of kilos if you printed it out. (I had another look at it earlier tonight: I would have to be absolutely desperate to want to use it for my tasks.)

Repackaging applications are not the answer. In theory it seems like a smart move to take a snapshot of a bare system, install stuff, take another snapshot, compare the two, and then simply duplicate the changes (files, settings, registry entries, etc.) holus bolus. But it's not reliable. Further, every time you change a single thing (there is a new Thunderbird version out, let's say), you have to re-do the entire snapshot. (Five times for five different Windows versions.)

Some kind of scripting application is the answer. Let's take (b) first, the standard applications installation. For these I can easily have a single, well-defined, non-varying set of keystrokes/mouse clicks, that won't need to vary from one machine to another, not even if they are running different Windows versions on different hardware.

For (a), the Windows interface de-tox, it's different between the different Windows versions, so I'll need at least 4 scripts (XP Pro and XP Home can probably share a script: anything that you have to do differently between the two can just be done manually.) Again, all it needs is something to feed keystrokes/mouse clicks to Windows.

What does it need?

• Ideally, it would run off CD-ROM. But running it off a network share would be OK too. At worst, I wouldn't mind manually installing and uninstalling a single small application, if that would then install all the other applications for me.
• Open source is always nice, freeware is nice too, but I'll cheerfully make Tannin pay for an application that does this if it's good enough and does what I want.
• A sensible level of complexity. Anything that requires the hours and weeks of study and configuration that the brain-dead Microsoft system needs is out. I have better things to do with my evenings than sit here all night buggerising about with computers - especially when it's entirely likely that I'll have to do it over and over again every time new stuff comes out and needs to be included. Life is meant to be easy!
• (Wish list item.) Simian-editable configuration scripts. Suppose that the latest version of Firefox introduces an extra button to click during the install. If I can copy the install.exe over and edit the install script to hand-add that button, life is easy.

 

[Tannin]

Tea, you need some batch files. Bring back DOS!

 

[Tannin]

Or you might try Autoit. Looks like a real possibility to me.

 

[Mercutio]

Make your base hardware config. XPPro and XPstupid.
Take that machine, and install all the possible hardware that might change (nvidia video, s3 video, ATI video, Agere modem, Intel Modem, 3com NIC, Realtek NIC, Promise RAID, Via RAID) etc. This will get all the appropriate drivers on the machine, which is all we really need for our purposes.
Dump every driver you're regularly using in to a \drivers folder, just in case.
Install your software.
Install updates.
Make your default user settings perfect.
Log in as Administrator.
Copy your perfect user's NTUSER.DAT to \documents and settings\all users
Likewise for the desktop, documents etc. if they are different from the baseline.

Run sysprep. Shut down.
Ghost and burn to DVD (or CDs, I guess, but the image will be 1 - 2GB)

You'll need 1 image for Home and Pro, and one image for Via and one for nVidia/SiS chipsets. That's four images. Four DVDs.

The first time you do this, it will take about two hours per image.
Updates take very little time at all unless you're doing something fairly massive (e.g. new XP service pack).

The applications will remain on the machine through the ghost restore, and because you overwrote the NTUSER.DAT, every account that gets created will have proper settings.

The applications I add to my images are:
Adaware, Winzip, Acrobat 7, Nero 6, PowerDVD 5, Spybot, Hijack This, Symantec AV Corporate (licenses are $11 and user's aren't buggered about subscriptions running out, and they don't try to install Norton/Mcaffee like they do when I try to do AVG or something), Ghost 2003 (another $11), Firefox+Adblock/Linky/Magpie/Flash/Java, Thunderbird, DVD Shrink, CDex, IrfanView, and Media Player Classic.

 

[Tea]

Thanks Merc. I really appreciate the trouble you take with explanations like these, and the wealth of knowledge that goes into them. But that wouldn't work for us, we just do too many different types of machines. Wild, off-the-top-of-my-furry-head guess at the OS mix:

* 98SE: 30%
* XP Stupid: 30%
* 2000: 20%
* XP Notquitesostupid: 10%
* 98 Moron Edition: 5%

Something like that anyway. Let's count up. We could forget the ME as it's the least common version (though one of the more time-consuming and annoying to install), and just do a single version of XP Pro (for Nvidia chipsets, i.e., new systems with Sempron or above and stand-alone video cards). That still leaves 7 DVDs we would use regularly (like once a week or more). Then there are the Intel chipsets .....

I just don't think it's workable. Remember that only about one install in 5 is a brand-new system. The others are on all manner of systems, ranging from K6-2/350s through the IBM P-III 450 I'm installing XP Home on right now (goes quite well with a nice little Maxtor 20GB hard drive upgrade and the 256MB of SDRAM I added) to Compaq P4s people bring in to be wiped off and installed properly (minus eye-candy, viruses, masses of spyware, 6 billion useless pre-loaded items in the start-up, most of them branded "Kodak", and 9 different users for a family of three). And so on. They are all different.

Your mention of NTUSER.DAT sounds interesting though. There is something I need to investigate, as I spend ages configuring the damn desktops on these machines.

Back after some Googleing.....

 

[Mercutio]

Tannin, it's stupid NOT to do the sysprep thing if it'll save you bench time. Maybe only one in five installs is new - that's still saving you probably an hours' work every time you have to use it.
Even if you add in a set of disks for P4/Intel (and the SiS/nVidia one might also work with that - I suspect it will, anyway), you're still coming out ahead.

I can build a computer, from parts in boxes to sitting at a Windows desktop, in a hair over 15 minutes if need to.

98 probably isn't worth automating at this point. It's only going to get less common and at this point you can probably install it blindfolded.
But if it's an issue, using msbatch.exe, you can grab the delta of registry settings from a base install (whatever you normally do) and build a self-booting install CD that'll at least make the installing windows part of things painless.

For common apps (say, Winzip, Acrobat, Firefox and Adaware), you might be able to get away with just making a single install .msi using something like WinInstall LE. Dump it on a network share and at least limit the amount of clicking you end up doing.

You're right that no single tool will do everything you need, but every time you automate even part of the job, there's less work for you to do.

 

[Bozo]

Doesn't Bart's have something that would work?

http://www.winfx247.com/247reference/a.aspx?u=http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[Tea]

I hear what you are saying, Merc. But it's also dumb to spend longer automating tasks than you spend doing the tasks themselves. I could very easily wind up doing that if I don't think things through first. Bear it in mind that most of the donkey-work tasks are things I can do in low-priority time (i.e., at the same time as I do three other machines, answer the phones, think about what to have for lunch). The actual load time is a non-issue.

Win 98 isn't going to go away anytime soon, nor is 2000, nor (alas!) is ME. Probably be several years before 98 becomes a non-issue. (Different country, and this is a country town: we sit a couple of years behind the big cities so far as computer habits go. Hell, it's only been in the last 6-12 months that we have (more or less) stopped needing to do Win95 installs. 98 is still the single most common install to need to do. Which is cool, as it's also the quickest and easiest.)

I'm not too fussed about the actual Windows install side of things: it could be improved, of course, but it really doesn't chew up a lot of time: slip the CD in, press a couple of keys, go on with other work while it loads. There is never any shortage of other work. The only really tedious part is keying in the damn XP licence number (with 2000 and lower you can just pick one number to use for everything and memorise it).

And I don't mind loading drivers by hand. In fact, I think I'd prefer to keep this part of the install routine fully manual, as there are all sorts of reasons to use individually selected drivers on particular machines. For example, TNT video cards work better if you don't use the latest Dets, older SiS chipsets require great care with IDE drivers, and so on. For new builds, the latest Gigabyte driver CDs really do provide one-click install for the whole damn lot. Magic! (That's for graphics-on-board systems. Stand-alone video cards need a second CD: no hu-hu.)

Nope, the most tedious part is configuring the damn desktop, turning off all the eye candy, doing what little is possible to improve the horribly broken XP search tool, removing bullshit icons and links, setting the IE start page to Housecall, telling Microsoft that we don't live in the goddam united states! (do you know that you have to do that in seven different places!?), turning off the brain-dead simple netwrecking, all that boring stuff. Sure, I can do it in my sleep, but it bugs me to be cleaning up all that garbage. Especially as (in general) it's the same stuff that everybody else that has a clue does. Why don't M$ have a button labelled "I have a clue, please treat me as an adult person over 7 years of age" that you can click? They have done at least a little of this now with XP - system properties, advanced, performance, optimise for best performance nukes about a dozen stupid eye-candy things with one click. More of that would be nice.

The other time-consuming part is loading apps. I don't mind this so much as it's making a system better, not just cleaning up stupid Microsoft mistakes (like the difference between cooking and washing dishes: you need to do both of them to eat, but which one is more fun?). But it does take a while, and for the majority of them, the keystrokes are always exactly the same. A good automation prospect.

I spent about an hour last night playing with Autoit (link above). Early days yet, but it looks really good, and might just be the perfect answer.

If so, that wil give me:
* Standard Windows install (we already have a great partition and format tool, no need to change that)
* Scripted desktop settings stuff
* Scriprted application install
* Manually load machine-specific apps (Nero, PowerDVD, anti-virus app, Office, etc. For these you need to select the right version on a per-machine basis, so these really need to stay manual.

That's already a big time saver.

I will look further into sysprep, Merc, and investigate other alternatives too. But it will take a while, as the spring tree-planting season is upon us and that means no weekends for the next few months.

Bozo: great link! Thankyou! I haven't quite worked out what I'm going to use Bart's thing for, but something that powerful just has to be useful.

 

[tazwegion]

All that labour intensive side of the workshop actvites shouldn't be a real problem for you Tea, seeing as your primate feet have almost as much dexterity as your hands also would you mind asking Tannin if while he's removing all that eye candy... to disable that annoying messenger service feature in Win 2k->

BTW I'm suprised 98SE is still so popular here :eekers: I though I was the only hick still using it :roll:

15 minutes from scratch to desktop, that's pretty impressive Merc what OS do you install primarily? :-?

 

[mubs]

W98 is worse than a sieve. How do you guys stay secure?

 

[tazwegion]

W98 is worse than a sieve. How do you guys stay secure?

Easy...

#1 Windows 98SE with LITE alterations (95 components) & IE5+ uninstalled, Mozilla & FireFox are wonderful browsers

#2 My LAN utilizes an ICS system with the main system (host) being Win XPpro with various security & AV management packages


AVG - everybodies favourite
PrevX - generic intrusion prevention system
MS AV Beta - Bill's kind gift (courtesy of Giant)
Quickheal AV
plus an assortment of Anti-malware products


BTW I use 10Base2 cabling, how's that for antiquated? :lol: Oh and because I still use dial-up... I can physically 'disconnect' when not using the internet :mrgrn:

 

[Mercutio]

I can install any Windows OS in that amount of time, taz. I sysprep everything and generally use a common set of hardware. OS install time = time to ghost a 2GB image + time to type in user info and a product key. Very fast and very simple.

 

[tazwegion]

Wow many hands make light work, sysrep makes many hands obsolete!

 

[Bozo]

Have a look at NLite [ http://www.nliteos.com/ ]

It allows to to slip stream service packes, drivers, and upgrades to an ISO. It also has the ability to modify the desktop. You can even set it up as an unattended install!
You can also make registry changes, passwords, and delete unwanted "features" of the OS before you install.
Make the NLite ISO, burm the CD and your done!

Bozo
:mrgrn:

 

[Bozo]

Taz: a small favor. Could you pick another colour beside yellow in your post? It's almost imposible to read.

Thanks,
Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[Mercutio]

I thought nlite was really cool, until about the fourth time I tried it, and it didn't work right. Or close to right. Or leave me with a computer that would boot.

 

[Bozo]

I've used a few times. Never had a PC fail to boot when done though.

I use it for unattended installs with service packs already installed. Nothing too fancy.

Bozo :mrgrn: