Piracy

[Clocker]

I wass very suprised to see Canada at the top of the list. I was also very suprised to see that the US isn't on the list at all with all the music downloading that goes on here.

http://www.dailytech.com/A+Closer+Look+at+World+Copyright+Piracy/article6123.htm

 

[Mercutio]

OK, let's clear something up:

RIAA, BSA, MPAA, ESRB et al are all formal self-regulators for their respective industries that are more or less in the business of maintaining their power and bullying folks who can't afford enough lawyers to fight them, rather than whatever it is they're supposed to do.

Given that, every single thing that they have ever said or done can be categorized as deception or at best half-truth without any further thought.

 

[e_dawg]

Not surprised, given the very high rate of high-speed penetration and the tech culture amongst our teens and 20-30-somethings in Canada.

For music, give us convenient legal methods of purchasing electronically (i.e., mp3 format, DRM-free), and we will gladly pay full price. Otherwise, we might seek out sites like www.allofmp3.com that provide what we are looking for (sadly, it was crippled by the RIAA). iTunes et al. just do not cut it.

For software, give us the programs non-wealthy consumers want for a reasonable price and we'll gladly pay. Sorry, but $270 for Windows, $500 for Office, and $750 for Photoshop isn't reasonable for most, especially students and 20-somethings that comprise the bulk of the offenders. Feel free to charge that amount to corporations that can afford it, but not to the masses.

Canadians are usually nice, reasonable, upstanding people. But blatantly and disrespectfully rip us off and we say screw you. We're resourceful, we'll do it our way.

 

[Sol]

The cost due to piracy, when it's being referred to in an article like the one linked it's a statistic, officially it's an estimate, and on examination it's a number pulled out of somebodies arse...

I've yet to see a study with any reasonable sort of methodology actually conclude that piracy costs anyone anything.

And what's with the complaint about there not being data for the music industries losses in Canada? I was under the impression that there was a tax in Canada which reimbursed the music industry for any perceived losses so isn't there therefore, no piracy of music in Canada by definition? Or at the very least no loss due to it...

 

[CityK]

Its getting pretty bad here. I'm always having to fend off bootleggers trying to peddle me their copies. Seems like just the other day there was none, but now there are like four or five at every corner. Its gotten to the point where I just ignore them. I look right through them -- like they weren't even there. I feel pretty bad about that, and truthfully, I really feel sorry that they've fallen through the cracks of society, and would like to help them out. But Jebus man! - how many copies of MS VISA can one guy own?

In seriousness, Sol's got it right -- there's lies, damn lies and then there's the MPAA:
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1656/159/

This latest hub bub is nothing more then a change in tactics by special interest groups. And they are a lot who are well described by Merc's post.

 

[adriel]

Downloading is a pretty inefficient method for piracy. In Malaysia, all one has to do is take a bus to the mall, and just buy all the full season tv shows or software they want on disc faster than it'd take to search and download. I can't imagine that in a US environment. It would be like a vendor with a store next to the Foot Locker, just selling pirated copies out in the open with no police arresting them.

 

[adriel]

Thailand, so-so. Vendor grabs you on the arm and pulls you into their clothing store. Then a hidden back room opens up to a piracy background operation.

China, I am wondering how and where they do it all. Maybe through organized crime? Hong Kong had real tight enforcement of piracy. I didn't see any out in the open or hidden underneath at all while at the malls. It's just that the DVDs you buy may appear indistinguishable from the real thing, it's just that its not and you have no clue. Real shady.

 

[Bozo]

Actually piracy doesn't "cost" anything. A file sitting on a server can be copied millions of times at no cost (okay, maybe the electric used)

What the scumbag CEOs and organizations are pissed about is all the money they can't stick in their pockets. Period!

Screw them

Bozo :joker:

 

[Clocker]

Right, Bozo. Everything should be free and we should not pay anyone for anything they create.

 

[P5-133XL]

What the scumbag CEOs and organizations are pissed about is all the money they can't stick in their pockets. Period!

Screw them

Bozo :joker:

Let's see where that can go:

Let's not pay for sex ... After all, the only thing the women and their pimps would be pissed about is all the money they can't stick into their pockets.

Let's not pay taxes, After all, the only thing govt. would be pissed about is all the money they can't stick into their pockets.

Why should we pay for clothes at dept. stores... Let's just shoplift. After all, the only thing they would be pissed about, is all the money they can't stick into their pockets.

Why should we pay for anything ... After all, the only thing anyone would be pissed about, is all the money they can't stick into their pockets.

 

[Mercutio]

There's a major difference between not paying for a physical object - you are depriving someone of that object - and a collection of bits, in which case both you and the person who made those bits still have a complete set of ones and zeros.

Furthermore, given the restrictions on the purchase of bits, it makes sense to engage in a certain amount of "try before you buy." Some companies and some industries are better than others about that, but in the end almost every person involved in the creation and sale of digital media has firmly anti-consumer beliefs and practices, as anyone who has tried to put songs from ITMS on their non-Apple MP3 player has found.

 

[Bozo]

Well, take a look at the life styles of the musicians & movie stars; members of the RIAA, MPAA et all, CEOs and directors of the music & movie industry: Seems there are making plenty to me.

Screw them!

Bozo :joker:

 

[Handruin]

You know that it being a collection of bits is the wrong way to look at it. Those collection of bits are the result of someone else doing something you couldn't do for yourself. Or even if you could, you didn't do it because of other reasons. And it is physical. You get a shiny plastic circular object with graphics on it that fits in your CD drive. It may be a copy of the original, but it's not that far off from buying a book. Both had to be produced...one weighs more than the other.

With that said, it's a service. I don't NEED to listen to music on CD/DVD. I don't NEED to use photoshop. Both are a collection of bits. Regardless of how a band, or a company uses their money is none of my business. That doesn't give me the fundamental right to take their work, their time, their ability to do something I cannot do...something they took time to produce and then say...bah they don't need the money, they're rich anyways. They're rich because they were able to do something lots of people want.

Having said that will make me sound hypocritical, though I at least understand the difference that what I do when downloading an MP3 is exactly what it is and not something else.

 

[Mercutio]

Part of my job is to prepare manuals for my students. I know exactly how much work it takes to create something. I'm also a decent-enough musician. However, as a creator of intellectual property, I am most pleased that someone finds my work useful or pleasing and that my work is appreciated. That I get paid for making those manuals winds up being a secondary concern; I still might very well make them, just as I would still sing or play piano. Not getting paid certainly doesn't stop me from trying to help people in SF's tech support forum, for example.

 

[Mercutio]

Also,

YARRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrr!

 

[Handruin]

Part of my job is to prepare manuals for my students. I know exactly how much work it takes to create something. I'm also a decent-enough musician. However, as a creator of intellectual property, I am most pleased that someone finds my work useful or pleasing and that my work is appreciated. That I get paid for making those manuals winds up being a secondary concern; I still might very well make them, just as I would still sing or play piano. Not getting paid certainly doesn't stop me from trying to help people in SF's tech support forum, for example.

That's a little different. I'm not sincerely questioning your ability to do either, but on a larger scale, can you create all the types of music YOU enjoy listening to...and at the same quality level? To do that it would cost money. You as an individual may not mind playing music for someone, but if you had to go on tour and travel the world, you might need some money to cover costs (without even considering profit).

I do agree there is a lot of self satisfaction to know someone else likes something you've created. It's a driving motivation, but when things like this get to a larger scale (like a rock band, orchestra, or Adobe's Photoshop) you are no longer talking about a one person project.

 

[ddrueding]

I think both the Pirates and the *IAA have it wrong. The pirates say "collection of bits" and the *IAA say "every pirated copy is a lost sale".

BS. There are many things that I would not pay money for, but would like to have a look at. By pirating things I wouldn't have otherwise given a chance, and buying things I know I like, I'm rewarding those who do good work without spending tons of money on stuff I don't like.

Of course, this puts power into the hands of the consumer, and we can't have that

 

[Buck]

Down with the man!

 

[sechs]

Let's get something straight. I don't buy software; I license it. Those guys on the top floor won't sell it to me.

So, if you pirate software, you're not stealing it, because it's not for sale.

 

[LiamC]

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37545

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20061110

this one and the next three or four (navigation at the top)
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20061120

f34r the gr347 0ld 1's

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20061109

 

[MaxBurn]

Pricing is insane for many products. If I was pressed to go 100% legit I would find some freeware stuff to replace a lot of things I use just because it is easier this way. Another thought is that with all the focus on pirating that these agencies doing a good deal of bullying is that they are keeping the warez in check nicely here.

The trial thing is big for me too: I "tried out" vista for a while and didn't really see a reason why I should switch from XP. I also "tried out" office 07 for a while and after about 15 seconds looking for the save file as option exploring the big unfamiliar ribbon thing I ran to the uninstaller. Am I ever glad I didn't spend five or six hundred on those.

I am also running a warez version of XP on my game machine at the moment because in testing I can easily hose the OS and have to reinstall and I don't want to be on the phone with MS twice in a week. Further on my prior machine I had x64 legit but had to go down to x86 warez due to driver issues and I don't feel that is stealing at all.

 

[Mercutio]

Oddly enough, as much as I like to pirate stuff, I think I have a license for everything I use. I might be short on legal copies of Nero. That's about it.

 

[ddrueding]

If you factor in my MSDN and Power Pack subscriptions, I think I'm legit as far as Microsoft is concerned. Now Adobe, that is another story But considering I don't profit from my use of their products, I don't feel as bad.

 

[Sol]

I find it very hard to feel bad about pirating Nero. At any one time I probably have only one or two machines in a state ready to burn things. At the same time I probably have 5+ legit copies of Nero express. So your not actually allowed to "combine" licences in any legal sense, but it's better than nothing right...?

 

[sechs]

Now Adobe, that is another story But considering I don't profit from my use of their products, I don't feel as bad.

Are you saying that you don't use them (i.e. profit), or that your moral compass has a magnet next to it?

 

[ddrueding]

I use Photoshop for screwing around with my own photos; it's unlikely that anyone else ever gets to see what I do, it's just for fun. MS products I use for profit, so I consider paying for them more morally significant.

 

[Mercutio]

ddrueding: Paint.NET.
I don't know of any Adobe product that's worth the money.
And that includes the free ones.

 

[sechs]

You're just not in any of the businesses where it really makes a difference.

You'd be amazed in the difference between a 1000+ page manual put together in Framemaker versus Word....

 

[Howell]

I do agree there is a lot of self satisfaction to know someone else likes something you've created. It's a driving motivation, but when things like this get to a larger scale (like a rock band, orchestra, or Adobe's Photoshop) you are no longer talking about a one person project.

And even the people in one person projects have to feed their families. If a person /company is able to produce things that they can afford to give away because they make their primary living in another way more power to them.

Many artists (music, visual, software) primary means of support is that product which is being enjoyed and not paid for.