Space Shuttle Columbia Lost During Reentry

[jtr1962]

I turned on the TV today and was astonished at the news:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...&u=/nm/20030201/ts_nm/space_shuttle_debris_dc

Too early to speculate on the causes. It is not yet known if there are any survivors. A full scale search for debris is currently under way in Texas.

 

[jtr1962]

Looks like me and SteveC started a thread on this at the same time.

 

[Clocker]

I don't think there is a possibility for anything other than an accident here (no terrorist acts).

Let's keep the families involved in our thoughts....

C

 

[SteveC]

The crew.

 

[Mercutio]

Ilan Ramon is a national hero in Israel. I just listened to a report about him on the radio last night.

How totally tragic.

 

[Pradeep]

I guess with shuttle launches and landings being an almost monthly occurence, people tend to forget how dangerous the whole operation is.

Apparently during launch a piece of foam dislodged and hit one of the wings of the shuttle, possibly leading to this disaster. It could be any one of a million different parts gone bad. And apparently a hyrdraulic faliure is also a candidate.

 

[Handruin]

I just got online and this was one of the most depressing things to read. :blue:

 

[CityK]

First thing I saw this morning...very sad to see.

Turned the TV off after a short while - was getting sick of the explanations that it wasn't a collision or missile.

I wonder if NASA or USAF had any tracking aircraft close enough at the time - perhaps in time we will be given a better perspective of the unfortunate event/s that lead to this tragedy.

 

[CougTek]

Learned it about an half-hour ago since I don't watch TV very often (saw it on Ars Technica). This is the second time I learn such a tragedy online (Sep. 11th was the first).

My only wish is that it will make the NASA move its ass to switch to less drastic ways to send a vehicule in space. The shuttle's principle is and should have been obsolete long ago. Something like the X31 with a more horizontal line to cross the atmosphere would be both less risky (no more big fuel tanks) and less wasteful in term of energy expense.

 

[P5-133XL]

I saw it on TV this morning. I found it interesting that all the networks and CNN HLN were talking about the shuttle, but CNN proper was not - Still showing their scheduled broadcast about Iraq.


Just as a sidelite - I watched a documentry "on shifting sands" on the previous set of Iraq weapons inspections - upthrough 1998. It was very informative - a little bit biased, but still very good. It gave a good perspective on what is going on now and why.

 

[Mercutio]

I learned about 9/11 from slashdot, and this from this thread, here.
Slashdot had 600 posts about it, 20 minutes after they posted their headline about it.

I turned on Telemundo, the channel I get with clearest reception, and of course I saw the video, over and over and over. It didn't matter what was being said.

It's a goddamn shock. That's all. I shut the video off and went to lay in bed.

Since then I've had some fairly callous thoughts: "At least now we'll have a headline that doesn't involve Iraq or warmongering." and "I wonder if NASA will be able to continue as an organization, or if its funding will be cut to nothing."

Of course I also have to think of the tremendous loss to the world. Not just the work that the shuttles have done, but astronauts are the best of the best. Those men and women are PhDs, people with the will to succeed. I've met a few, Jerry Ross (who is from the town where my parents live, and visited my high school regularly), Neil Armstrong and Gene Cernan, both of whom are Purdue Alumnus, who regularly attended fundraisers for the school. Each man possessed a charisma and an intelligence that went beyond anything I could describe. Whatever program NASA uses to select its astronaut seems to truly bring forward great men. I have to think that these people who were on-board the Columbia were just as great.

In the end, I just think that I should tune out of it all. I *don't* want to hear about it. Something important was lost, and at this point, I've had enough of loss.

 

[Pradeep]

Well the great leader was just on and said space exploration will continue, so at least he won't be disbanding NASA.

 

[blakerwry]

That just sucks.

 

[Mercutio]

I *do* hope the use of the appellation "great" was some form of sarcasm, Pradeep.

 

[CougTek]

Thinking about it, our Gary must have had a pretty busy and awful day.

 

[Handruin]

Learned it about an half-hour ago since I don't watch TV very often (saw it on Ars Technica). This is the second time I learn such a tragedy online (Sep. 11th was the first).

My only wish is that it will make the NASA move its ass to switch to less drastic ways to send a vehicule in space. The shuttle's principle is and should have been obsolete long ago. Something like the X31 with a more horizontal line to cross the atmosphere would be both less risky (no more big fuel tanks) and less wasteful in term of energy expense.

I learned of such tragedies as you had. I learned about both events online. During the sept. 11th event, a coworker and I were visiting the news sites in Ireland since the major news websites in the US were denied due to traffic. (He’s originally from Ireland so he knew all the places to go)

I also learned so time ago that NASA is the only organization to use a level 5 quality assurance. I forget what the actual rating is, but NASA is the only organization to use it. Unfortunately in this tragic event, the high level of QA & QC didn't make any bit of difference.

 

[Buck]

From what the Nasa Director stated (I think that was him during the press conference), the shuttle was at 200,000 feet above sea-level and traveling at Mach 18 doing scrub turns (helps the shuttle lose momentum and slows its speed) when the problems began.

 

[blakerwry]

god that would be scary if they new there was a problem. I can only hope that they pretty much instantly desintegrated at that speed and felt no pain.

It's really unfortunate that they were just ~20 minutes from landing and being able to see their families.

 

[Pradeep]

I *do* hope the use of the appellation "great" was some form of sarcasm, Pradeep.

Sure was.

 

[Mercutio]

It's really unfortunate that they were just ~20 minutes from landing and being able to see their families

... only slightly more morbid, the investigation into the Challenger disaster revealed that several of the astronauts in that case SURVIVED and were still conscious up to the point where their cockpit hit the atlantic ocean.

Like the 9/11 passengers, I have to think that those who know their fate are the ones who suffered most...

This is just too morbid.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I don't think these guys were alive for very long after the problems started.

I have just seen the crash footage all of the way through. The first thing that you notice is two small white specks that fly off of the main vapour trail. I reckon that was a structural failure. Either one of the control surfaces failed or a wing root. The Shuttle was, as has been said 'scrub turning' at the time. Moments later, there are small undulations in the trail. These are indicative of turbulence; probably as the Orbiter started to sway as it became unbalanced in the slipstream. Moments after this, the trail splits as the shuttle breaks up. The total time looks to have been about 5-10 seconds. I don't think they knew what hit them.....

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I just found this release of the mission control data.

At 0853, there is a loss of temperature sensors in hydraulics systems in the trailing edge of the left wing.

At 0856, sensors in the left main gear tyre-wheel well report a temperature increase.

At 0858, three temperature sensors on the left side of the vehicle stop working. At this stage, Columbia is at an altitude of nearly 40 miles; its speed is in excess of Mach 18 (18 times the speed of sound - 13,200 mph). It is still 1,400 miles from the Kennedy runway. Columbia is in a left-bank, with its wings angled about 57degrees to the horizontal.

At 0859, sensors monitoring tyre temperatures and pressures report no data. Mission control contacts the shuttle: "Columbia, Houston. We see your tyre-pressure messages. We did not copy your last."

There is a very short delay before the shuttle comes back: "Roger... erm..." The line is lost.

That looks to me like a heat sheild failure on the wing, leading to a wing structural failure. It was the left wing that got hit by that piece of foam on launch. Oh crap.......

 

[CougTek]

... only slightly more morbid, the investigation into the Challenger disaster revealed that several of the astronauts in that case SURVIVED and were still conscious up to the point where their cockpit hit the atlantic ocean.

This contradict everything I read and heard on the subject. I saw the images over and over back in 1986 and again today and I don't see how anything could have survived inside the shuttle Challenger when it blew up.

 

[jtr1962]

About all the mission control data tells us so far is that it was a sudden, catastrophic failure of some kind. An educated guess would be that some tiles came slightly unbonded during launch, and the stresses encountered during reentry caused them to fall off. It only takes a few tiles in a key structural area to destroy the vehicle. Another possibility is that the angle of attack was slightly off. This would cause the shuttle to burn like a cinder if too steep, or skip back into space if too shallow. Hopefully they'll be able to pick the debris apart and come up with a more definitive analysis.

I still have no words for this terrible loss. These people represented the best of the best. I can only imagine what their families are going through. This tragedy just underscores that no matter how routine it's gotten, space travel remains an inherently risky business not for the faint of heart. Every astronaut admits to feeling apprehensive, especially at launch. They all say the same thing-you're basically sitting atop a bomb with the yield of a small nuclear device, and if you're not at least a little afraid you're either insane or dead.

 

[SteveC]

... only slightly more morbid, the investigation into the Challenger disaster revealed that several of the astronauts in that case SURVIVED and were still conscious up to the point where their cockpit hit the atlantic ocean.

This contradict everything I read and heard on the subject. I saw the images over and over back in 1986 and again today and I don't see how anything could have survived inside the shuttle Challenger when it blew up.

Unfortunately, some of them did survive the explosion. When they reviewed the video and radar, a piece believed to contain the crew was seen hitting the water about 3 minutes after the explosion. From the wreckage that was recovered, they could tell that some of them had used their emergency oxygen supply.

 

[SteveC]

The final report on the fate of the Challenger crew.

 

[Prof.Wizard]

The final report on the fate of the Challenger crew.

That's... so awful...

I hope the report for the Columbia to show a more rapid and unagonized death to the crew.

 

[Tannin]

It's a sad day for America, for India, for Israel, and the world. Just the same, I am pleased to see that President Bush has already said the space program will go on. That shows spirit. Good people died in the course of developing a way to cross the oceans, and this made America as we know it possible. Good people died making aircraft practical too. But no-one stopped because of that.

All humanity benefits from the space program. Good for you America.

 

[CougTek]

Now, that's low

Saw this in Tom's Hardware news section :

Just hours after the NASA space shuttle Columbia exploded and all seven crew members were reported lost, the national news indicated the likely path of debris from the doomed shuttle and asked citizens to report debris that was found and not to move or touch it. Shortly after the crash, items reported to be from the Columbia began to appear in great numbers on eBay's auction site. By late Saturday evening, a search for "Columbia shuttle" items on eBay was reported to indicate 1,011 items for sale, with more than 900 reportedly having been listed after the fatal accident occurred. One item for sale was said described as "Columbia Space Shuttle Debris with a minimum bid of $10,000 US. To eBay's credit, this listing was pulled and the item was listed as an "invalid item." As to Columbia items listed on eBay prior to the crash that were still available on Saturday, bids for these "collectibles" went through the roof. A sheet of Columbia shuttle stickers sold for $168, a Columbia beer mug sold for $185, and a $5 commemorative coin sold for $1,951, just to name a few examples.

While it is understandable that these items are obviously more valuable now that the Columbia is gone, the lack of respect displayed by such eager sellers and buyers of Columbia memorabilia as 'merchandise' is a sad tribute to human greed and exploitation of such a tragic event.

Wow, Jason must have been busy collecting stuff in his neighborhood ;-) In revenge, I think about the bunch of sore idiots who collected shuttle's debris and didn't know they might have been toxic and/or radioactive. I wish them a little cancer to congratulate them for their greed.

 

[Prof.Wizard]

I doubt they are ALL toxic and to that extend, Coug. I believe it was more of a goverment-idea to steer away unwanted attention (and stealing of high-tech know how, yes, even from debris!) and to be able to reconstruct the last minutes before the accident. And that needs obviously all the "pieces of the puzzle".

Actually, the idea of a completely unethical Texan in Nogaboches (what the hell of a name is this anyway?) to go out to his yard, take a piece of the shuttle, and immediately bid it to $10000 is quite interesting. Even if, as I said, UNBELIEVABLY UNETHICAL.

 

[timwhit]

I doubt they are ALL toxic and to that extend, Coug. I believe it was more of a goverment-idea to steer away unwanted attention (and stealing of high-tech know how, yes, even from debris!) and to be able to reconstruct the last minutes before the accident. And that needs obviously all the "pieces of the puzzle".

Actually, the idea of a completely unethical Texan in Nogaboches (what the hell of a name is this anyway?) to go out to his yard, take a piece of the shuttle, and immediately bid it to $10000 is quite interesting. Even if, as I said, UNBELIEVABLY UNETHICAL.

Actually there were several reports of people that found debris before they were told what it was and were injured by chemical burns and the like. So it isn't completely made up that the debris is dangerous.

 

[Prof.Wizard]

It depends the debris. And if they touched it before the announcement, it would have probably been also very hot by the re-entry.

 

[timwhit]

It depends the debris. And if they touched it before the announcement, it would have probably been also very hot by the re-entry.

I don't think it was a case of it being hot, but more like dangerous chemicals that were present.

 

[Prof.Wizard]

You're probably right. You said chemical burns. Do you have links to the incidents? I wanna take a closer look.

 

[SteveC]

You're probably right. You said chemical burns. Do you have links to the incidents? I wanna take a closer look.

70 people went to the hospital after coming in contact with debris seeking more information, but there were no injuries reported from them.

There is a real danger though. Here is what the chemicals can do to a person.

Both forms of hydrazine are clear, flammable liquids. They can irritate the eyes, skin and respiratory system and cause vomiting, diarrhea, tremors, convulsions and permanent damage to internal organs. They are considered "immediately dangerous to life" at a concentration of 50 parts per million.

 

[Prof.Wizard]

70 people went to the hospital after coming in contact with debris seeking more information, but there were no injuries reported from them.

Those went to the hospital for controls. Not complains. Fortunately.

 

[James]

Not to be callous or insensitive or anything (always a good opening) but the day before outside Sydney there was a train derailment which killed 7 people. Then the shuttle thing comes along and the train disaster can't even get a short paragraph at the bottom of page one.

It is a tragedy, obviously, but it seems to me that these astronauts signed up for a job they knew was dangerous (this blowing up thing has happened before, after all). The same number of commuters killed on a Sydney train are just civilians taking public transport - plus the larger issue of public safety on our rail system (almost a million people use the train system in Sydney each working day) to be is much more important. But just like 11/9 unfortunately everything gets swept under the carpet because of something that happened in the US.

The local media really sucks, I'm particularly disappointed in the Sydney Morning Herald's handling of this - you expect them to have a bit more integrity than the others.

 

[time]

The shuttle cost more than the train.

 

[Handruin]

Don't support your media if you truly hate reading & hearing about the US. I doubt the shuttle costing more than a train makes a difference in this situation, money grows on trees here.

 

[Tannin]

Amen to that, Time. But you know what really bugs me? It's the $15 million dollars worth of wasted PR bullshit in my letter box, when the money could have been spent doing something relatively useful, like putting new carpet in the Parliament House Bar, or (more to the point) upgrading some NSW permanent way. That just makes me so angry that I could throttle Johnny Lickspittle with my bare hands and not even need to ask Tea's help.