System locking up on occasion

[Handruin]

Seems like everyone needs to share some system discomfort from time to time.

over the last several months my xp2200+ system decides to freeze up after sitting idle for several hours. Usually it's when I wake in the morning and come to use my system. I know it's locked up because the hard drive LED is glowing solid. When I turn the monitor on, the monitor goes into stand-by mode, it never displays anything. This has never happened while I'm using the system, only while sitting idle...either through the night, or while I'm at work. My machine is not configured to go into stand-by mode or hibernation. The only item I have enabled is to power off the monitor after 25 minutes.

So, I've tried the normal troubleshooting techniques, but this one's tough because it happens very sporadically. Usually two to three times a month it occurs.

I've done the following with no positive results, and the problem seems to be getting more frequent over time.

1.) Replaced my power supply from an antec 300 watt to an antec neo 480 watt
2.) Replaced the northbridge fan with a zalman passive heatsink because the fan originally crapped out.
3.) Replaced the spire heat sink for improved HSF and new thermal grease (reduced temperatures by roughly 8-10 degrees C)
4.) Reinstalled the OS and formatted system drive
5.) Transferred the system to a new case (not for troubleshooting purposes but worth mentioning)
6.) Checked the drives for media problems, nothing found
7.) Event log shows no problems at the time of the lockups.
8.) Running prime95 stress test as we speak and no errors found yet. Will let this run for 24 hours or more.
9.) System is connected to UPS

system specs:

Abit NF7-S v1.0
xp2200+ thoroughbred A (never over-clocked)
2x 512 PC2700 crucial
ATI 9500 Pro (not OC'd)
2x WD 80 GB (one connected by PATA->SATA)
1x WD 120 GB PATA
1x Maxtor 300GB SATA
1x Samsung 16x DVD
1x Pioneer 106
1x soundblaster live 5.1 xgamer (problem existed before adding this card, and is using windows drivers)
XP Pro SP2

 

[i]

Tried a memory test? I guess it's a long-shot, but I had a system that would lock up intermittently, but usually some time after the system had been left idle and the screen saver had kicked in. Turned out it was a bad SIMM (that should give you an idea how long ago this was).

 

[Handruin]

I'm running prime95 right now, but it may not be a completly conclusive test. I'll try memtest86 after I get through a full day of prime95. Maybe that will weed out something.

 

[Handruin]

I'm still running memtest86 after 8 hours and no errors...

 

[time]

Gradual deterioration often means caps. I know you've been through this before, but are you sure the cap tops are all concave?

 

[Mercutio]

... I was just about to say the same thing.
Especially since that's an Abit board. Weren't they bad cap central from 1999 to 2002?

Maybe it's time to hook Doug up again...

 

[Handruin]

I stopped memtest86 after 10.5 hours with no errors...

I'll take in-depth pictures of all caps...maybe you guys can give me your expert opinion...be back in 20 minutes with a series of pics.

 

[Handruin]

Pics 56K warning... click each pic for a full sized version (roughly 2MB each)

Yes, I know it's messy...and I need to buy compressed air. I looked through all the capacitors and I couldn't find any showing any signs of bulging...

 

[Mercutio]

It may just be the angle on the picture, but the second cap from the bottom on the right side in this picture doesn't look quite right to me.

 

[Handruin]

I'll try to get a better picture...that was a tough area to photograph...as you may have seen from the 5 similar pics of this area.

 

[Handruin]

I took several new pics of that capacitor. I think this picture (3rd from the left) and this picture (2nd from bottom) have good detail of the suspected cap. From the new pictures, I think it looks fine.

 

[Mercutio]

Yup. Looks better now.
The person who really needs to do cap inspection, however, is jtr.

Also, just because a caps aren't bulging doesn't mean the motherboard is in the clear.

 

[Handruin]

Thanks for the help. Think it could be all the nasty dust?

I'll swap out the board, but what do you recommend for the xp2200+? Should I look at a via/gigabyte solution (I know you dislike nvidia chipsets)?

Newegg still offers the Gigabyte GA-7VT600P-RZ sporting a VIA KT600 chipset. It has everything I need to keep the machine running and is a reasonable price. Epox has a comparable board EP-8KRAIPRO using the VIA KT880. Between the two, I like the gigabyte better, but that's a non-scientific decision.

 

[Mercutio]

Dust reduces the efficiency of your HSF, but generally doesn't present any other problems AFAIK. Your CPU temps are good, right?

The VT600RZ is a marvelous motherboard, but I don't think it's a wise expenditure at this point. Also, your current system is an nforce2; sticking with nvidia will at least be a hassle-free upgrade.

 

[Handruin]

Motherboard monitor is reporting around 50 degrees C with an ambient temp of 83 F in the room. It fluctuates a bit, but usually stays in that area.

Is the new board unwise because I could build an up-to-date system for a little more? I had thought about that, but the xp2200+ is still a good chip and I'd rather not waste her.

 

[Mercutio]

50C is pretty normal for a Tbred, I think. Just checked a Tbred 2000 and I see it's running 48C on a retail HSF.

 

[CougTek]

For the record, the exact same behavior happens to me with my new P4 Prescott-based system. One thing I would try if I were you would be to remove the heatsink from the CPU and see if the thermal paste has completly left the area between the core and the heatsink. This is supposed to happen with thermal paste, but not with thermal pads. If you're unsure, clean the heatsink and CPU from the old grease and re-apply a fresh layer of your favorite thermal material.

I don't think it's the problem since your temperature appears to be normal, but you waste nothing to try except your time.

Your caps look alright to me, I wouldn't worry about it.

Something else : how's the fan (if any) doing on your graphic card? Maybe this is due to an over-heating GPU?

 

[Mercutio]

Doug, I just checked what I have in stock, and there are a couple Soyo SY-KT600s and a couple Asus A7N8XE Deluxe motherboards that I would *dearly* love to get rid of. The Soyo boards are refurb KT600s but they seemed to work when I tested them. The Asus nforce2 boards are new and never even been tested.

Interested?

 

[Handruin]

One thing I did do to troubleshoot this problem was to purchase a new HSF. So in that process, I did exactly as you said and removed my old spire HSF, and installed the new one. In the process I cleaned off all the old thermal grease and applied a thin layer of arctic silver 5. The problem occurred before this, so I'm less inclined to think this is my issue, but I can check again.

I do have a fan on my radeon 9500 pro, and I don't know what the temperatures have been like, but I can attach a thermal probe from my case on it and let it run for a few days to get some readings. The fan is spinning fine, I verified as I'm typing this post. The heatsink is fairly warm, but it's not burning my finger to touch it. I've played hours of gaming with no lockups, and I'd suspect that's when the card is the warmest. I can certainly keep an eye on the temps to see if this is my issue. Maybe something is happening when the system is idle causing it to spike...

 

[Bozo]

By default XP will shut off the monitor after 20 minutes. It can also shut down the hard drive. (these are different settings than hibernate).
Have you check these settings? Could be that your hardware doesn't cooperate.

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[Handruin]

I've checked the HD and system standby are set to never. "Enable hibernation" is also disabled. As far as I can tell, they are all disabled. Only the monitor is set to turn off after 25 minutes. The monitor is turned off in this fashion many times a week.

 

[time]

The suspect capacitor does appear to be bulging slightly in your angled pictures. I notice that two adjacent ones have some sort of substance around the rim at the top; it might be poor finishing, or it might be that the electrolyte is actually seeping around the 'safety valve'.

It's probably not enough for a normal warranty return, but I suggest you check with the 'supplier' of this particular board.

Epox has a comparable board ...

I'm really disappointed that you feel the need to resort to profanity, Doug.