Tesltra Big Pong

Tannin

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Big Pond sucks. Telstra sucks. Ziff-Davis sucks. On-line polling sucks.

Actually, we find Telstra's Internet (dis)service very easy to deal with.

You walk in with your PC under your arm and a problem with your Netconnect account, or your Primus account, or your Optus account, we say "no problem, Sir, we will fix it up for you" and we mess around with your software till it works right, then we hand your machine back and charge you $45 (or whatever seems a fair thing). If you bought the machine from us and the problem is with Netconnect (our preffered supplier), we probably won't even charge at all for it.

You walk in with your PC under your arm and a problem with your Big Pond account, that's even easier. We say, "Sorry Sir, we don't work on Big Pond problems. Get yourself a decent ISP or else fix it for yourself. If you want to waste 25c call Telstra's help line. But if you just want an Internet connection that works, spend that 25c calling Netconnect, Optus, Dingo Blue, Friendly Giant, Primus ... "


Oh, and that URL again.
 

Tannin

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You know if I had the time and the skill-set, if I was a retired lawyer, say - I'd sue Telstra for deceptive trade practices.

They have ads all over TV promising "UNLIMITED INTERNET ACCESS, $29.95 per month". Make a great big deal of it. In the fine print, they say "300MB download limit".

Did you ever work out how much 300MB actually is?

Check my maths:

56k = 56 * 1024 bits = 57,344 bits per second

/8 = 7178 bytes per second

/1024 = 7KB per second

/1024 = 0.006336 MB/second

300MB limit / 0.006336 MB/second = 43,885 seconds of actual use

= 731 minutes

= 12.19048 hours

= 12 hours, 11 minutes, and 26 seconds.

A 30-day month has 720 hours.

Divide that by 12.19048 and multiply by 100 to get the actual percentage of the "unlimited month" they advertise. You get 1.69133%.

Telstra deliver less than 1.7% of the service they promise.

If I was that retired lawyer and I sued them, I reckon I'd stand a chance of winning the case of, oh, roughly around about 98.3 percent.
 

Mercutio

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To anyone thinking of complaining, I'd like to point out that no one else here seems to have a problem connecting to the internet via modem @ 28.8kpbs.
 

time

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I don't, but I know people locally who do.

At least you can sleep at nights knowing you can't get a $1000 excess usage bill in the mail, as many Big Pong customers have.

The stuff I linked is only the tip of the iceberg. The latest is that we (yes, I'm one of the suckers) have to agree to new Terms and Conditions by the 14th. These include the statement that Telstra isn't required to provide any feedback of your usage, or any reporting, but you still have to pay whatever figure they come up with at the end of the month. As their billing is usually two months behind, you may be bankrupted by the time you receive any indication.

To add insult to injury, their metering is notoriously inaccurate (which of course they deny). A former Telstra engineer hooked up a Cisco router to his connection and found he was billed for 400MB more than the logs showed. When I first joined, I received a bill for 800MB in 8 days, even though I had not downloaded any files. At that stage you could demand detailed usage logs (for a fee), which showed that 10 minutes reading one article at THG notched up 28MB ...

After a nine month dispute, they backed down, but their attitude (and contracts) have hardened considerably since then.

They currently claim that I'm using 1GB per month browsing the internet (there are two other part time users, one of whom always views with images disabled). When I downloaded a 500MB Linux image (twice), it soared to 2GB. Does 1GB seem a tad excessive to you?

This is supposed to be an unlimited plan. Then they started evicting people for "unreasonable" usage. Then it was capped at 3GB. Now, to avoid a 30% cost increase, we are supposed to agree to a 1GB limit.

But the excess rates are so outrageous, that only 150MB over would cost us the 30% anyway. Our usage in December was 1.145GB. Do you see a problem?
 

James

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To whom it may concern :

In mid December 2000 I signed up for the Big Pond Broadband ADSL service. At that stage it was 89.95 per month for 512K/128K service and unlimited downloads.

At that time the ADSL service was so poor (availability, throughput) that I lodged an official complaint in mid February. It was dealt with late March and I was given three months free in compensation. There were then a number of outages during the middle of the year, and all ADSL users were given several weeks of free service. The CEO of Telstra also announced at the time that all problems with the ADSL network would be fixed by the end of last year (2001), although outages in both NSW and Victoria in January clearly indicate that the promise has not been kept.

Then the announcement was made that the unlimited downloads would be capped at 3GB per month.

Now, less than three months after this latest change, prices are going up by $6/month and the so-called "loyalty bonus" (to which I have been entitled since the end of my contract in December) of $5/month will be withdrawn as well, making the net change to me $11/month, or a 13% increase, for a service that is significantly less than the one I signed up for only 13 months ago.

Australia is surely unique in the world for being somewhere that Internet access charges are increasing. I am mystified as to why this should be so, given that Telegeography, an international consultancy that tracks bandwidth pricing, announced in December 2001 that trans-Pacific bandwidth costs have fallen by over 50% in the last 12 months. Similar statistics were stated recently by Reach, which after all is your international capacity provider and one that you part own. Other factors against this explanation are that the cost per excess MB has dropped, Telstra has recently negotiated lower wholesale prices for ADSL the service, and the business rates have been dropped in price enormously.

Given therefore that increases in the cost of supply are not the reason for the price increases, another possibility is that product management at Telstra was so incompetant that it was unable to calculate a profitable ADSL price proposition in an environment where bandwidth costs are falling at over 50% a year, and unable to get it right despite two substantial changes of offering in twelve months. As a Telstra shareholder such an enormous failure and waste of shareholder funds would be of great concern to me.

The final possibility, and to my mind the most likely, is that Telstra has seen that it has its users over a barrel and there are few viable competitors - essentially, that it has a monopoly on ADSL service in Australia. Telstra has therefore seen the opportunity to use exploitative pricing on its users. Not only is this ultimately damaging to Telstra - many users are being forced to give up broadband service because of its cost and going back to dialup with Telstra's competitors - but it hurts Australia by slowing the wider takeup of broadband in Australia.

Telstra's contention that "the vast majority of users download far less than 1GB a month" flies in the face of the e-mail posted two weeks ago by Telstra to all ADSL subscribers advising of a one-off rebate of half the excess charges for those that went over the 3GB cap in the first month after the cap was introduced.

Please provide an explanation for the price rise and the contradiction noted above.

Yours sincerely,
 

Pradeep

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The only real option you have is to switch to Optus, and that would entail moving house/apartment if you are not within cable reach. Or moving back to good old dial up :)
 

James

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Yeah, but given that I only bought this house 18 or so months ago, it seems a bit tough to go through all the trouble of selling then buying just to get better Internet access. :)

Besides, I get Optus Vision here, but I have the privilege of being on what must be the only node in Australia that isn't enabled for 'net access. It's especially frustrating since I'm sort of an Optus employee (well, I am, as far as they know). Optus@Home is pretty good, as far as I can tell.
 

James

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Mercutio said:
To anyone thinking of complaining, I'd like to point out that no one else here seems to have a problem connecting to the internet via modem @ 28.8kpbs.
Mercutio, just assume that you have my sympathy at the pitifulness of your Internet connection in perpetuity. It'll probably make things easier.
 

Pradeep

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James said:
Yeah, but given that I only bought this house 18 or so months ago, it seems a bit tough to go through all the trouble of selling then buying just to get better Internet access. :)

Besides, I get Optus Vision here, but I have the privilege of being on what must be the only node in Australia that isn't enabled for 'net access. It's especially frustrating since I'm sort of an Optus employee (well, I am, as far as they know). Optus@Home is pretty good, as far as I can tell.

Maybe some kind of wireless line-of-sight connection straight from the Optus building? :mrgrn:
 

time

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James said:
Optus@Home is pretty good, as far as I can tell.
Yeah, I know a guy with it that phones me every now and then to gloat.

Mercutio, if it's any consolation, unless I reboot my (cable) modem every 2 to 5 days, the performance is nowhere near as good as a 28800 connection. I have a backup ISP (iPrimus) on dialup, and occasionally I use it to depress myself with how responsive it is (and of course when Big Pong doesn't work or works so badly it doesn't count).

So James, what are the "alternatives" like? I assume you've already checked Netspace etc out?
 

time

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My partner here is spouting anagrams of Telstra as she contemplates sleep:

Telstra

startle

sel tart

starlet

ratlets

arslett

staler t

rattles

tel rats

tatlers

arsttel

Okay, enough already. No computer or pen and paper folks. Just idle thoughts with her head on the pillow. 8)

One more: rats tel
 

James

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time said:
So James, what are the "alternatives" like? I assume you've already checked Netspace etc out?
Yeah. My issues are that I know way too much about Internet backbones in Oz and I therefore know that there's only a handful worth considering - Optus, Telstra and AAPT (because they buy it from Optus). UUNet is dreadful, and everyone else is pretty much irrelevant.

Going to Netspace is something I'd definitely do if I was on dialup - they've had great reviews for the last few years. The trouble is that broadband is such a high usage service that I'm concerned that Netspace just isn't geared up to cope with the traffic. Plus they use UUNet. Throughput results posted, especially for international, aren't as good as Telstra.

XiS just seems like a hole-in-the-wall operation - some of the www.ausforum.com posts are a bit scary - and they're basically just in Brisbane. I worry about them being prepared for the bandwidth surge broadband will bring too.

I'm not even considering TPG!

I'm secretly hoping that some contact on the inside at Optus will save me and bring through Optus@Home for me, but I'm probably kidding myself.

Do you have any suggestions? It looks like Telstra is my only option. :(
 

Tannin

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I once bought 200 hours of dial-up with TPG. Used about three hours, had loaded about 10 whole page views in that time (and no, I don't mean graphics-heavy stuff), consigned them to the "never again under any circumstances" list.
 

Mercutio

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Oz does seem to have it bad for internet stuffs. Not only the evil phone company, a villian that's almost an operatic in stature, but a government that has tried very hard to make sure y'all can't look at naughty pictures online, and a single, grouchy person in charge of .com.au domain registrations

Amazing anyone puts up with it.

I heard that sometime last year one of the major transpacific cables connecting Oz to the US got cut, too... something that was designed to be replaced only every 50 years got broken after only four or six years in service. I'm not too keen on verifying this, since James is right here, but I can't imagine that losing any wire someone has taken the time to string from the US all the way down there is a good thing.
 

Tannin

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"... and a single, grouchy person in charge of .com.au domain registrations ... "

Why the hell else do you guys think my business site has been a .net for all these years?

"Oh no, you can't be a company. .com is for commercial operators only. Where is your ACN (Australian Company Number)?"

"I am a sole trader. Sole Traders have BRNs, not ACNs."

"Then you can't have redhill.com.au. .com is only for commercial businesses."

"I am a commercial business.

".com is only for commercial businesses."

"Look, we will do some Basic Business 101, shall we? There are four types of commercial business structure: Family Trust, Company, Partnership, and Sole Trader. I own 100% of Red Hill Technology, therefore I must, by law, be structured as a sole trader. You can not be structured as a company unless there are three or more owners. I am the sole proprietor. "

"Then give me your ACN. .com is only for commercial businesses."

"I am a commercial business!"

"But you have to be a real comercial business."

"I have a staff of seven. We turn over two million fucking dollars a year! How %^$@#!@! commercial do you want my business to get?"

"But .com is only for commercial businesses."

sigh

The guy was a volunteer, did it for thrills, didn't get paid for it. The trouble with volunteers is than no matter how much they deserve it, you can't get the bastards sacked.

It's different now, thank God. I hope he rots in hell.
 

Mercutio

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I don't remember the evil bastard's name, but Aussies have been complaining about him for as long as I've been on the internet - 1993 - which was long enough ago that .com wasn't even the second most common TLD on the internet.

I actually think it would be pretty cool to run .com.au as my own personal fiefdom. A great pain to everyone else, but then, that's what makes it fun. :D
 

Pradeep

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I agree completely Tony. It's absolutely crazy that the designation of certain domain names can be left to a one-man volunteer who seems to be rather scewed in the head as well. Imagine if he'd gone on a 6 month holiday whilst still in control! It just kills confidence by consumers.
 

Tannin

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"Imagine if he'd gone on a 6 month holiday whilst still in control!"

He did!

I don't think it was six months, but he used to just disappear for weeks at a time. Getting www.redhill.net.au registered was a saga that went on for a couple of years. We were actually up and registered as redhill.com.au for some time, a year perhaps, because my ISP just told their domain name server to get on with it and let that idiot sort things out later.

This was back in, oh, about '95.

I guess if I was to attempt to register the .com address now, it would take a couple of hours.
 

James

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Mercutio said:
I heard that sometime last year one of the major transpacific cables connecting Oz to the US got cut, too... something that was designed to be replaced only every 50 years got broken after only four or six years in service. I'm not too keen on verifying this, since James is right here, but I can't imagine that losing any wire someone has taken the time to string from the US all the way down there is a good thing.

The state of international cables into Australia is interesting (err... well anyway, it is if that sort of thing interests you - skip the following if it doesn't).

For a long long time in Internet time, say about 8 years in real time, the only optical cables in and out of Australia were PacRimEast (to NZ, then via Hawaii to the US), and PacRimWest (up past PNG to Guam). Then Optus and Telstra built JASAURUS, a small cable from Port Hedland on the WA northern coast up to Indonesia, where it can link in to APCN, the main Asia cable (Indonesia to Japan, via Singapore, HK, South Korea etc.). Then about three or so years ago SMW3 put in a 2.5Gb/s section from Jakarta to Perth (SMW3 runs from Europe to Japan via Asia, a competitor to FLAG).

For a long while the fastest rate of technological improvement was in microprocessors. Then for a while it was hard disks, but for the last five years it has been in optical transmission such as is used in undersea (and overland) cables. Cables like PacRimEast came from the very first generation of optical cable, with a maximum transmision rate of 2x560Mb/s - which was fine for voice calls but nowhere near enough for the boom in IP data. JASAURUS is four years newer and maxed out at 5Gb/s.

The trouble with laying cable, particularly in south east Asia, is that it is prone to damage from trawlers and ship anchors. The South China Sea and the Straits of Malacca are very shallow and have enormous amounts of shipping go through them, so cables are constantly being broken. The incident to which you allude, Mercutio, was when a ship sectioned SMW3 between Singapore and Indonesia. Since SMW3 doesn't have a diverse path and both JASAURUS and PacRimWest are full, there was nowhere for the data to go. Telstra was one of the main users of that section of cable for its international IP traffic (to the US) and had to reroute everything over PacRimEast, which simply didn't have much capacity to spare. This was the situation for three days until the cable was repaired.

About 14 months ago Southern Cross went in between the US and Australia. At the time it was put in service it was the fastest cable in the world at 120Gb/s, able to be upgraded to 480Gb/s, and with two completely seperate cables for diversity in case one should break. SX improved the RTD (round trip delay) from Australia to the US from 350ms (via SMW3/China-US) or 380ms (via PacRimEast) to about 140ms - a dramtic improvement. SX is 50% owned by Telecom NZ, 40% by Singtel/Optus, and 10% by Worldcom. Telstra isn't an owner and therefore must pay wholesale rates for capacity, which is obviously more expensive than if they owned the cable. Telstra is also somewhat hamstrung since it formed Reach with HKT, most of whose cables run from Hong Kong - the task then becomes how to get the data to Hong Kong and thence to the US, with PacRimWest, JASAURUS and SMW3 all full.

Since then Telstra has put in the AJC cable which goes from Australia to Japan via Guam at 640Gb/s, and presumably will allow it to lower its costs further by abandoning some SX capacity in favour of AJC (they have a nifty website at www.ajcable.com). AJC went into service in December.

Singtel and Optus have announced that they will build a new cable from Perth to Singapore, but it hasn't been started yet and that is probably 12 months or so away from going into operation.

Cable & Wireless has almost completed what will for a short while be the fastest cable in the world - Apollo - from the US to the UK and Europe, with a speed of 1.2Tb/s. It'll be eclipsed in May by i2i, a 8.4Tb/s cable from Singapore to India.
 

time

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The obvious lay question:

So why is my internet access so slow?

<waits for inevitable answer>
 

Pradeep

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And why are mobile call costs going up, when everywhere else in the world they are going down?
 

time

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I've thought for some time that Arslett was trying to emulate BT (British Telecom), but this latest round of manoeuvres elevates them to a league of their own.

When our illustrious government sells its remaining stake, can we expect more government sanctioned illegal advertising promoting the shares to mom and pop investors?

Not that there's any conflicts of interest anywhere here. Heaven forbid.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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I thought BT were bad!

I pay £40 a monthe for 512K ADSL. It works 5x faster than dial up, and 1 outage in 6 months. All I complained about was the price. i realise now how lucky I am.
 

James

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According to my girlfriend, we have another outage at the moment on the DSL service to go with the 7 hour one we had last week. Yay.

Vlad, I see in the news today BT is halving the price of its ADSL service...
 

Sol

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Did anyone else heer that on a reasent poll by ZDnet OZ asking "Is Telstras broadband internet good value" the responses were about 25 to 1 against(surprise) at one stage and about half an hour latter 25 to 200 odd. ZDnet traced the several hundred positive responses back to an IP on Telstras network where a Bot was busy posting them once a second. When confronted with the IP log, Telstra fessed up but said it wasn't sanctioned by managment. Another poll a while latter asking "Should Telstra refund customers for down time" suffered a simmilar fate from the same bot.
 

James

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Another thought - recently there was a survey of bank customers and what they thought of the level of service they were getting. CBA did the best because, according to the report, "CBA's customers have lower service level expectations than customers of other banks."

Perhaps if you keep lowering the bar, people end up becoming happier.
 

Buck

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Sorry, I have no experience with Telstra, but this is a great thread with great knowledge being dispersed.

I'd love to complain about my ISP, but it seems irrelavent after seeing the Oz nightmares.

BR
 

Tannin

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4th post from the top I calculated how many hours Telstra's "unlimited" deal gets. Anyone want to go over that and check my sums? Is my 12 and a half hours figure correct? Or did I misplace a decimal point or something.
 
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