The Welfare State, Patronage and its Consequences

JSF

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Here is an article I received by email. I apologize for its length but It registers for me. I hope it registers for most of the members of this web-site, but I have my doubts. Joe.


Two amazing things about the events in New Orleans this past week were 1) why would people in such misery just sit there and wait for help - why didn't they do anything to help themselves; and 2) not so much how long it took to get help to them, but how massive the help was when it got there. Can you imagine what all goes into an operation that size, moving troops, choppers, buses, food, water, medevac units, ice, etc., in just 4 days. The following is rather long, but the last three paragraphs directly answer the first question.


An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the Welfare State
by Robert Tracinski

It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there. The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are confronting a natural disaster.

If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists, natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.

Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.

The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has gotten the story wrong.

The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.

The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave in an emergency--indeed, they were not behaving as they have behaved in other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even what we expect from a Third World country.

When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion. They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).

So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?

To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a description from a Washington Times story:

"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.

"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....

"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill orders.

" 'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,' she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will.' "

The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.

What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?

Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?

My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located in the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. "The projects," as they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and irremediable squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)

What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels--gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails--so they just let many of them loose. There is no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa.

There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.

No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact, some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on American "individualism." But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism.

What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting.

Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005
 

Mercutio

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Yeah. OK. Blame poor people for being poor. Call them criminals. Fine. Do that, too.
Very helpful and enlightening.

This message provides quotes from the Washington Times and Fox News, two organization with editorial dictates that align with the right, and both seem to generalize the events as the personal failing of everyone who stayed in New Orleans.

The people who were stuck in New Orleans weren't stuck because they were waiting for government handouts. Many of them were too poor to afford a car or bus (note to the Objectivists among us: some people can't afford cars). Others deemed something else in their life important enough to supercede their need for survival. I'm sure there are criminals. I'm also sure that a lot of behavior that is being called criminal is the result of the huge fucking shock of seeing a whole city - a whole American city destroyed.

Really, if I saw rescue boats and helicopters passing me by while I sat up on my roof, above deepening flood waters, after a couple days, I'd be pissed enough to shoot at them, too. If I saw cops breaking into ATM machines, I'd start to think it's OK to go snag myself a new TV.

Are there criminals? Sure! It's New Orleans. My father has had his car stolen every time he's visited that city (three times, all told. It's a joke in the family at this point). New Orleans was a cesspool before the flood. Is that the fault of the welfare state, too? Or should we maybe look at what human conditions have led to near lawlessness before the breakdown of civil authority? The bullshit I'm reading here seems to find fault with the very idea of being less than middle class. This isn't about values or individualism! This is about fucking people who don't have any money or any good way to get any!

But apparently, if you ask whomever wrote this, or Fox News or the Washington Times, being poor and desperate is its own problem.
 

mubs

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JSF: in all fairness, I didn't fully read your post, just skimmed through it. But something to know: fully 1/3 of the population was below poverty line. Fully 1/2 of the children were below the poverty line. Those are pretty grim statistics. Granted, there are always no-gooders in every sample of the population anywhere in the world who try to live by sponging. But the majority do want to lead good, comfortable lives. They either don't know how, or don't have the chance to do so. This downturn has caught many flat-footed. There are very highly qualified people (PhDs etc.) that are making a fraction of what they were making before. Painting everybody that is in unfortunate circumstances with broad brush strokes is simply ignoring the truth and reality. I don't condone the violence and anarchy in NO, but this is pent up frustration and anger coming out. The same thing that brought Louis the IV down.

The middle class is disappearing at an alarming rate in this country. It is the size of the middle class that tells you how well-off the country is. This nation is fast becoming one of haves and have-nots. And that does not bode well for the future, in more than one sense. More people are below the poverty line this year compared to the last. The only ones whose incomes improved are the top 5%.
 

i

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I can summarize this article:

Problem: The free-loading criminals, poor, and elderly are stealing my money!

Solution:

Hmm ... wait a minute ... the solution is missing! Oh wait, that's right, the solution is always missing in articles that "address" this problem.

Gimps.

You're a bunch of flaccid, gimpy, sissies. You whine, complain, and stomp your feet about how it's not fair that your tax dollars are being used to support people who aren't fitting in with your picture of society. But that's all you do. Whining about the problem is easy, and it makes you feel so smart when you write about it!

But a solution? Well, you're not responsible for that. You'll badmouth an entire class of people -- or people you think should be branded as part of a particular class -- but finding a solution? Oh, you can't be responsible for outlining such a thing! You've taxed your poor little brain enough just revealing this shocking truth. It is soooo original, after all.

I am sick and tired of the sissies who wave their hands in the air, moaning about how there's a massive problem out there that everyone else is blind too -- and how it's all really quite simple -- but then run away like the gimps they are when it comes time to proposing a solution and taking it to heart themselves.

What the hell happened to the America of the 1950s? You know ... the one in which people would get off their collective asses and actually try and fix problems, instead of just whining about them? The one in which people took this sort of thing to be a challenge. Back when this country didn't shy away from challenges, because god dammit this is America, and we don't just sit there babbling when faced with a challenge.

What happened to my country?

How the hell did we wind up with such an immature bunch of complainers roaming the streets, vandalizing our nation's image, and stealing my time that could have been bettered used helping them implement their solution -- if they'd bothered to come up with one -- rather than wasting my time reading their slop and posting a reply?

Robert Tracinski: put up or shut up, you jackass.
 

Tannin

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What Mercutio said.

What i said. Very rough and blunt, but true enough. It really is a terrible thing to hear the so-called "leaders" of a once-proud nation complaining so bitterly about the direct result of their own policies and blaming someone else for it.

You get useful, honest, productive citizens by engaging them in mutual dreams, by embracing them with mutual values, by sharing mutual goals and mutual rewards for mutual labours.

You lock them out of your armed-guard rich-whire-boy enclaves, lock them out of any ability to earn a decent income or any aspiration to a decent lifestyle, make damn sure that you cut their wages to the point where it isn't worth going to work anymnore even if they can get a job in the first place, and then you are surprised that they shoot at you?

America is getting exactly what its leaders asked for.

So, what is the difference between the streets of NO and the streets of Bagdad? In what way is it better to be a poor black American than a poor Iraqi?
 

i

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Yah, sorry. Lousy week at work. And someone has stolen the details for one of the debit/check cards I use. According to another discussion site, I'm not the only one though. I guess some credit card processor had a network break-in back in July. Be on the lookout for unexpected $9.95 charges.
 

jtr1962

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I thought this was interesting about Norway:

There is remarkably little difference between the amount of money a factory worker or bus driver takes home and the pay cheque of a medical doctor.

Both earn just over £2,000 a month.
Now where exactly is the incentive to do all the years of schooling and sacrifice it takes to be a doctor if you end up earning what a factory worker does? Maybe I'm missing something here. Also, in a country where many necessities are practically handed to you, why bother working at all? That's exactly the problem I have with socialism.

I'm not saying I agree with what we have in America, either. In the case of New Orleans, the welfare system was purposely designed to keep the people dependent upon it so as to maintain a voting bloc for the local politicians. Poor schools pretty much negated any chance of breaking the cycle of poverty, but here again I'm sure that was intentional. A similar situation existed in NYC until Guiliani reformed welfare. We went from 1.6 million on the dole, or nearly 1 in 5 New Yorkers at the time, to the present 400,000 or so. It can be done there as well. The last hurdle to be overcome here is the poor schools. Once that's done, everyone who wants to advance themselves can. So long as society gives everyone, including the poorest of the poor, the tools to better themselves it has done its part. It's not responsible if someone chooses not to use those tools.

I'm also somewhat familiar with the mentality of the poor in New Orleans. I'm very ashamed to admit that I grew up poor. We lived in a NYC housing project with other poor people. However, at least until the early 1970s most of the people there who were of working age worked even though they didn't earn enough to live in market rate housing. Nevertheless, the place was fairly safe and clean. In fact, me and my siblings didn't even know what a roach looked like. Starting in the early 1970s the project started letting in welfare recipients. Immediately we noticed a sea change in attitude. Vandalism increased, there was always urine and feces in the elevator and stairwells, my mother and sister got lewd stares whenever they walked by the benches. We got roaches from the welfare family underneath us. I even woke up with one under my pillow. :eek: My mother had it up to the eyeballs, went back to work, and did whatever she needed to do to get out of there. In 1978 we were able to buy a house. Now I'll grant that we would not have wanted to stay in the projects forever, but the influx of welfare recipients basically forced the working class out. Once the working class left, things just got worse and worse. I'm sure some of the readers here remember the news stories about drug dealers literally running some housing projects, with even the police afraid to come in. The moral of the story here is that when you don't earn what you have, you place no value on anything, whether property, animal life, or even human life. This is the mentality of 25% of the New Orleans population. Whether or not it's their fault that they ended up this way is irrelevant. Fact is that they're probably lost to society for good, but the government should do what it can to see that their children don't follow the same path. That in my opinion is where America is failing.
 

bahngeist

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jtr1962 said:
I thought this was interesting about Norway:

Now where exactly is the incentive to do all the years of schooling and sacrifice it takes to be a doctor if you end up earning what a factory worker does? Maybe I'm missing something here. Also, in a country where many necessities are practically handed to you, why bother working at all? That's exactly the problem I have with socialism.
Perhaps because they may feel that having the opportunity to do what they love to do, to providing a service to their fellows, and gaining the corresponding sastisfaction constitutes a reward in itself. It is not uncommon for physicians outside of economies where free-market capitalism reigns supreme to earn comparatively low incomes. And which physician would you rather have treat you: one who has been drawn to it because they feel it is their calling; or one who was attracted to the profession primarily because of the potential of a high income? And who knows, when disparities in income aren't nearly as great as they are in the U.S., perhaps this relative commonality helps to inculcate a sense of belonging within a community, and a sense of social responsibilty. The latter would be a natural inducement to working and contributing to the common good.
 

jtr1962

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I agree with some of what you're saying bahngeist but I have yet to meet anyone who would go through all that being a doctor requires solely for job satisfaction, helping their fellow man, etc. There has to be some perk, perhaps not necessarily monetary, in order to go through all that. Don't forget that in many non-capitalist countries professions like doctor, engineer, and teacher may not pay more, but often carry special privileges not given to factory workers. Sometimes this is better housing, permission to marry whom you chose, permission to own a car, or permission to drive as fast as you want. Also there are other things like maybe bypassing the food lines, or even having the authorities look the other way if you commit certain minor crimes. In capitalist countries all of these perks cost money, and some, such as driving at your own pace, can't be had at any price. In short, in a non-capitalist economy the perks to be a doctor are given to you. In a capitalist economy you're paid enough to purchase them, or most of them anyway.

What is puzzling to me is that as far as I know Norway has the rule of law, meaning that no citizen is given special privileges because of position or class. Doctors then get no special treatment, and no extra pay to buy any perks. Their only reward is the job satisfaction you mentioned. I find it hard to believe that enough people would willingly choose more difficult professions under such a system. Indeed, I find it amazing that more people simply choose not to work at all given that they're entitled to the basics by law, and working doesn't seem to buy them much beyond that given the high tax rates and high prices of goods and services. I do like though that extreme wealth is frowned upon. I personally don't see why anyone would need more than, say, $10 million, adjusted for inflation, and maybe that's a big failure of capitalism. The wealth goes to people who really don't need it, and often on the backs of underpaid workers.
 

bahngeist

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jtr1962 said:
... I find it hard to believe that enough people would willingly choose more difficult professions under such a system. Indeed, I find it amazing that more people simply choose not to work at all given that they're entitled to the basics by law, and working doesn't seem to buy them much beyond that given the high tax rates and high prices of goods and services. ...
There are also other intrinsic rewards such as social standing, implicit authority, and relative workplace autonomy that may also may make working as a professional rewarding. In comparison, a factory worker generally has little say in what they do. The report also didn't mention whether or not the factory workers they were referring to were highly skilled tradespeople or unskilled labour. As you are probably well aware, the income of master tradespeople such a tool and die makers are often comparable to that of a general practitioner here in North America. As far as the incentive to work: it is probable that the Norwegians are well aware that if too few of them work, their comfortable social democratic lifestyle would likely crumble. Besides, the attitude to do only as much as necessary and nothing else that often holds true here may not be as common in Norway. As was mentioned earlier, values such as a strong work ethic, the value of community, etc. have been eroding here in America; that may not hold true in Norway, which for a long time was a relatively poor compared to other western European countries.
 

Tannin

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JTR, you have been living in New York for much too long. Get out of there, see the real world for a change. Making money is not what life is all about. In civilised places (such as Norway) everybody knows this.
 

jtr1962

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I never said money is what it's all about, but it's about the only thing that is going to get me or most other people to give up the ten years or more of our life that being a doctor might require. The last time I was idealistic enough to think otherwise I was in high school. No matter how much you might love something as a hobby, it's bound to get boring doing it on a daily basis which is why you would want decent compensation. With decent compensation and some financial planning you can retire at 35 or 40 when you're still young enough to have your whole life ahead to do whatever you want when you want. I would never want to live in a place where you're dependent on the government for just about everything, and you can't earn enough to retire early should you get tired of your job, or for whatever other reason. Sure, capitalism in its purest form sucks, but then so does socialism.

Degrees and careers aren't all they're cut out to be. Given the apparent earning power, or rather lack of it, that a four-year college degree has I'm sorry I even went to college. I'm serious. I could have saved four years of my life and lots of money for all the good it's done me. What the hell good is education if there are no opportunities to get paid decently using it, or in many cases even to just use it?

Travel out of NYC? Nice idea but not possible on the $5K or so a year I make, or the lack of free time I have, or my boycott of the airlines for a bunch of reasons I'm sure everyone already knows. I hate traveling of the hotel/luggage/sleep away from home kind anyway. To give an idea of my current situation I've just spent a good 1000 hours working on a project which looks like I'm not even going to get paid a dime for. That seems to be the norm the last few years-working for nothing with an odd job thrown in where I actually get paid. Still, I suppose it's still better than my last regular full-time paid job. Not counting the 8 months after I had gotten a raise, I made $280 a week before taxes, $215 after taxes but before union dues and health plan deductions of about $65. Add in my $25 carfare each week and I took home a big $125 a week assuming I didn't buy lunch for a job that took 55 hours of my time each week once you counted the travel. Do the math-that's $2.27/hour net in the year 1989. And to add insult to injury the company I worked for acted like they were giving me gold, and this job plus the one before gave me carpal tunnel syndrome so working full time on just about any job is no longer possible for me. Now you can see why I get really pissed when I hear Britney Spears makes tens of millions a year for doing essentially nothing of worth to society.

More to life than making money? Sure there is once you have enough money to have the time to do what you want when you want, but without any money your choices in life are very limited. I guess when things get really bad in the US we can all immigrate to Norway and ask for handouts. :mrgrn:
 

Tannin

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Mate, I didn't mean travel. I meant move! Up stakes, pack your cycle in a box and go somewhere better to live. I can hear a terrible grim resignation in your posts (and this was before I read about your work situation), a bleak and bitter tone — and I don't for one moment blame you for it, I'd be exactly the same or worse in your shoes.

Move where? I don't know that. Is the whole US the same now, or are there still better places to live?

Think of it this way. In Norway, you would be earning quite a lot more, you'd have better working conditions, and you'd be living in a society where it isn't every man for himself and to hell with everyone else.

Your crazy minimum wage laws are a large part of what makes the USA what it is today: reduce the earning capacity and the living standards of the less well-off in society far enough, and you destroy any sense of loyalty and common purpose that your citizens have. It's selfishness gone wild, gone to the point where it is actually counter-productive. You wind up spending so much of the national dollar on welfare and crime control and barbed wire security that you (you the wealthy man) are actually worse off than you would have been in a civilised country like Norway.

And then something like Katrina or Rodney King strikes, and you suddenly realise what deep shit you are in ....
 

Santilli

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Tannin said:
Mate, I didn't mean travel. I meant move! Up stakes, pack your cycle in a box and go somewhere better to live. I can hear a terrible grim resignation in your posts (and this was before I read about your work situation), a bleak and bitter tone — and I don't for one moment blame you for it, I'd be exactly the same or worse in your shoes.

Move where? I don't know that. Is the whole US the same now, or are there still better places to live?

Think of it this way. In Norway, you would be earning quite a lot more, you'd have better working conditions, and you'd be living in a society where it isn't every man for himself and to hell with everyone else.

Your crazy minimum wage laws are a large part of what makes the USA what it is today: reduce the earning capacity and the living standards of the less well-off in society far enough, and you destroy any sense of loyalty and common purpose that your citizens have. It's selfishness gone wild, gone to the point where it is actually counter-productive. You wind up spending so much of the national dollar on welfare and crime control and barbed wire security that you (you the wealthy man) are actually worse off than you would have been in a civilised country like Norway.

And then something like Katrina or Rodney King strikes, and you suddenly realise what deep shit you are in ....

WOW :excl: :excl:

Despite your other posts, you just really nailed it. The problem with democracy is it destroys the middle class, and this leads to an oligarchy suppressing a poor minority, and, when given the chance, they create a 'mini-revolution' like Rodney King, or NO.

As I'm sure you know, we first became a colony of Japan, shipping them raw product, and having it come back finished, much as what the Brits did with colonies.

Next, we will be a colony of China, shipping them raw product, and having them process it, and bring it back.

When I call MSFT to activate Windows, I'm talking to India. More profit for MSFT, and less work for american citizens. In other words, it's become viable for businesses to use other countries cheap labor to make more money, but, it's leading to the destruction of the Silicon Valley, and the loss of thousands, and thousands, of local jobs.

The greed kings, making in the millions of dollars, have to maximize profits so they can keep their cushy jobs, and one way is to get rid of middle class...

gs
 

jtr1962

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Tannin said:
Move where? I don't know that. Is the whole US the same now, or are there still better places to live?
Even assuming that I'm willing to uproot my entire life and move, most places I'd be willing to live in are far worse than NYC, jobwise and amenity-wise. At least in NYC I don't have to provide my own transportation, plus I get physically ill from car travel of more than a few minutes anyway. That basically leaves out relocating anywhere I'd have to drive to get around (and with the price of gas rising such a move would be silly anyway). And you can leave out any place where it's warm all the time because I hate warm weather with a passion. What places are left then in the USA besides NYC? Chicago is about it. Last I checked Chicago has more problems than NYC. The relocation picture is pretty bleak. They used to just outsource factory jobs. Now they're outsourcing engineering and support. Soon with telepresence they'll even outsource doctors. All so some filthy rich people can get yet more money they don't even need.

Long term I'm seriously considering relocating to China if they have me but I'd have to do it with someone (i.e. a girlfriend or wife). I couldn't be in a strange county completely by myself.

As for the USA, I seriously think in my lifetime the eroding middle class and poor will get together and rebel against the disgustingly rich. I'd personally institute a wealth tax if it were up to me (100% of all wealth above $10 million). That might generate enough revenue to just invest it all and then run the country on the investment returns (i.e. no other taxes needed, ever). You think I'm fed up? Well, look for me times 250 million soon. Oh, and as for the national debt it should be interesting to see what happens when the USA falls and US bonds are worthless. That will throw most of the world, including Norway, into a depression.
 

jtr1962

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I actually read the whole article, mubs. As much as the doctors are emerging as heroes now, the public is fickle. In a few weeks it will all be forgotten and they'll be back to the usual celebrity worship. It's a shame that the public can't appreciate those who sacrifice to have a career which benefits society far more than any compensation they receive. Doctors, engineers, good teachers are but some examples of this. They should be the ones getting the big salaries, not the lawyers, athletes or actors. Now some may say a job well done is its own reward, and I might even with that most of the time, but the fact is that it won't feed your family. Doctors get paid so little in relation to what it costs them to go to school that I heard they don't break even until they're about 40. When you count the hours they put in and the cost of malpractice insurance, I highly doubt you have anyone going into medicine, even in a capitalist country, unless they love the field.

I read something in the papers today that in a survey done on various professions, doctors and scientists ranked 1 and 2 for the most admired. Stockbrokers were dead last. Also near the bottom were real estate agents, lawyers, and politicians (no suprises there).
 
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