Trouble Shooting Advice

[Clocker]

Hey guys-
I'm a bit stumped. I've been swapping some components around in different systems. In my one system (Shuttle AN35N Ultra), I pulled out a T-Bred B and replaced it with a Barton. Now the system won't boot at all, I get no video either. Drives power up and fans are going but I can't get any type of video.

Just before the upgrade was performed, I noted the the system had mysteriously shut down. At first it would not restart but after waiting a while, it finially got going again. Since I shut it down for the upgrade, the system won't start again (other than to spin the fans and drives).

I've pulled all the PCI cards and unplugged all the drives to no avail. I've also tried a different PSU with no joy. Any suggestions? I don't have another processor available to try although I don't believe I mishandled the processor during the swap (anything is possible though).

Any ideas? No video and my removal of the PC speaker about 2 years ago makes this a tough one to trouble shoot. It is sounding like a bad M/B to me....

Thanks,
CLocker

 

[Clocker]

FOrgot to mention I tried a different video card too....

THanks,
C

 

[P5-133XL]

A speaker would definately be valuable. First check your monitor and cabling Make sure that it isn't something dumb like it isn't plugged in. Then, without beep codes you really can only replace components till the problem is solved unless you happen to have a diagnostic board handy. It could be virtually anything.

 

[CityK]

A few suggestions:

- look for bad caps

- look at the CPU socket or the bottom of the CPU for broken pins

- is it possible you cracked the Barton core when installing?

- put the Tbred back in and try, if it works, any BIOS upgrade to recognize Barton chips.....okay, having just looked at the Shuttle page for this board, that doesn't seem to be a possiblitiy....however, I do note that one older BIO Release lists "Fixed system sometime can't boot." ... So possibly just a BIOS issue still

- maybe its related to the 133 -> 166 jump. Are your BIOS settings default or did you swap out with the FSB or multiplier way out of whack for what the Barton should be at?

 

[Clocker]

CK-

Great suggestions I'll check into when I get home tonight!

The M/B has no jumpers other than Clear CMOS which I already did. BUt, I will look for bad caps and check the socket area. I think the chip core is fine (no issues installing the cooler) but I'll double check.

Would no CPU (or a bad CPU) cause my no video symptom?

That BIOS history is a great find. I'm pretty sure this BIOS has not been updated since around the time where the "sometimes won't boot" issue was fixed.

Thanks again,
C

 

[P5-133XL]

Yes, no CPU or a bad CPU will cause no video output.

 

[Howell]

Are you getting any BIOS beeps?

My first thoughts are poorly seated/bad RAM or caps (as previously noted).

 

[P5-133XL]

He removed the speaker from the machine -> no bios beeps

 

[Clocker]

Now I'm a little confused. The CPU looks fine, not burnt or chipped. But, after removing it for inspection and then reinstalling it, an LED on the motherboard lights up which is supposed to indicate "CPU Overheat". However, it happens within seconds of the fans spinning up. I can't think of a reason this CPU could have been burnt.

Can't decide if I need a new CPU or motherboard at this point..... :evil: :?:

 

[Clocker]

I just pulled the CPU again and then reinstalled it. The 'overheat' light does NOT come on now. This M/B seems really flaky to me, especially given startup the issues I had just before I did any upgrading at all...

:x

 

[Clocker]

Wow....it turns out that BOTH the CPU and the board appear to be bad. I put the suspect CPU in a different board (known working) and it would not boot. I put a new CPU in the suspect board and it won't boot either (although the new CPU is not tested, it is brand new).

Damn...I'm thinking I might get a new PSU for the system just to be sure that isn't the root cause of this mess. What do you guys think of that?

C

 

[Buck]

Wow....it turns out that BOTH the CPU and the board appear to be bad. I put the suspect CPU in a different board (known working) and it would not boot. I put a new CPU in the suspect board and it won't boot either (although the new CPU is not tested, it is brand new).

Damn...I'm thinking I might get a new PSU for the system just to be sure that isn't the root cause of this mess. What do you guys think of that?

C

Considering good PSUs aren't horribly expensive, I think it sounds like a good insurance policy.

 

[Tea]

I agree with Buck. (As usual.)

 

[P5-133XL]

When both the CPU and the MB go bad, one has to suspect the PS as a likely culprit. Further, If both CPU and MB are bad, you also need to suspect that the RAM has gone bad too as it is highly susceptible to voltage irregularities.

 

[Clocker]

Well, I'm still at a loss here. The RMA process with Shuttle was pretty painless. They sent me a new board...I chose not to do the cross-ship option.

I installed the new board with a new CPU (actually a Sempron as well as a new 2400XP) and I still get no video on power-up. I have a known working PSU (Antec) and video card installed. I've tried both PCI and AGP video cards (TNT Vanta And Millennium PCI). The stick of RAM I'm using works fine in my other PC (it is Kingston).

I tried to find a PC speaker at a local shop but they had none available.

What do you think the likelyhood of Shuttle shipping me a defective replacement board is? I'm at a total loss here and the garbage can is looking like a good alternative. Could I have a grounding issue? How to make sure I don't?

C

 

[P5-133XL]

Check the validity of the monitor. Does it show power? Does it indicate a signal coming through? Does the monitor's internal menu work? Does the monitor work on another machine?

Does the Shuttle have a potentially conflicting onboard video? I don't think so, but I didn't look it up to make sure.

The fact that a ram-stick works on another machine is not a good indicator of the validity of the stick on your shuttle.

Double and tripple check for potential shorting on the new motherboard.

 

[Clocker]

Hi Mark-
Would pulling out the board and running it while sitting on my desktop be a good way to check for a short or ground problem? I'm not sure how to check for that? Should I let it sit on the motherboard bag and/or the little pad that came with theh motherboard?

I forgot to mention that the monitor is the same I use for the system I'm currently typing on. I have also tried an older 15" monitor I have. Also there is no onboard video and I've also tried a stick of the Corsair RAM that I have in addition to the Kingston that I tried.

Thanks again for your help,
KCH

 

[Buck]

Are all other unecessary cables disconnected from the motherboard (eg ATA/ATAPI/Floppy/USB)? Is there a jumper on the motherboard for the FSB? Also this is a nForce2 board that uses dual channel memory. Are their any requirements for populating the slots?

PS: Yes it is possible that you received a bad board, maybe even the same board back from Shuttle. That happened with me once when RMAing an FIC board. I marked the board to see if that would happen, and certainly did.

 

[Mercutio]

Set the board up on an anti-static bag outside the case while testing it.
If you're testing with a Sempron, does the BIOS revision of the board support it? For that matter, did the old board support the Barton?

One of those stupid thing - is the Clear CMOS jump set?

 

[Buck]

One of those stupid thing - is the Clear CMOS jump set?

Intel boards are interesting when it comes to the CMOS jumper, they have three positions, and when the shunt is in the wrong position, the board does exactly what Clocker is describing.

 

[time]

Clocker,

Are you using a keyboard or KVM?

What sort of CPU cooler(s) are you using?

 

[CityK]

Is it possible the Fan from the HSF is not being detected by the mobo ... as in "see no rpm, boot no board" ? Perhaps the tachometer circuitry in the fan is spent?

 

[P5-133XL]

You don't need a specific computer speaker -- Any speaker will do. The only issue is efficiency (how loud the resulting beep).

Yes, it is quite possible that shuttle sent you another defective MB or even the same board. All computer companies send out "Refurbished" replacement equipment. When buying new, I look at the odds of something working to be in my favor. But, replacements I always look at as the odds being against me. The quality control of repairs are never as good as new!

Other than what has been previously suggested, my suggestions for troubleshooting are getting rather limited at this point. Make sure all the jumpers on the motherboard are at default and/or very conservative values (i.e. underclock). Hook up a speaker (any speaker)or a diagnostic board -- You really need to know the beep code.

 

[Clocker]

THanks guys. I will follow up in a couple days as I have time.

Not sure if the board officially supports Sempron but I have tested with the 2400+ with the same result.

CCMOS jumper is set correctly & I have tried resetting it several times. It only has two positions, clear & normal.

The heatsink fan is an interesting theory. I have a new AMD HSF that I will try. The cooler I have been using is a FalconRock with the original fan that came with it.

No cables/drives are connected to the mobo except the power switch wire and the main&aux power connectors to the motherboard. Keyboard & mouse have been tried as well.

No keyboard or mouse are connected for most trials & there are no jumpers to set on the board other than CCMOS.

Thanks again.
C

 

[Clocker]

Well, I have officially given up on Shuttle. Their RMA was relativly fast but I believe they sent me a bad board back.

Moving on....

 

[Clocker]

Well, it turns out that Shuttle did in fact ship me back a bad motherboard. The good news is that the 2400+ CPU I thought was dead is actually just fine. Who wants it? :?:

I'm going to have to RMA again and then the replacement board they send me is going straight to eBay (unless someone here wants it). :idea: :?:

C

 

[Mercutio]

I've got a nforce 220 board here that can use an XP 2400... might as well. Sigh.