U-verse & Dish Network

[Stereodude]

Anyone here have any experience with U-verse and / or Dish Network?

I've had it with my local cable company, Bright House Networks, and their repeated price hikes. My bill for internet and cable TV with 1 HD-DVR, a 2nd HD receiver, and no premium channels is almost $130.

I only need a few non OTA channels to keep my wife happy. Mostly CNBC, Food Channel, and HGTV. Most of what I watch is available free OTA.

I looked into all the options... AT&T's U-verse, Dish Network, DirecTV, and AT&T DSL. The most cost effective option seems to be getting just internet via U-verse and TV via Dish TurboHD Bronze for those channels the wife wants.

My plan is to put my antenna in the attic for free OTA HDTV for my two HDTVs and dual tuner HD capping server in the basement. Get 3M/1M internet from U-verse for $30 a month, and Dish TurboHD with a one dual tuner DVR for $35.97 a month.

Why does it have to be so hard to try to save some money each month?

 

[Fushigi]

For many cities Dish (& DirecTV) offers the local channels in both SD & HD. We've been with Dish for a few years and haven't had any real issues. In January we upgraded from an old SD DVR to the ViP722 HD DVR. It advertises 55 hours of HD/350 hours of SD but that's very conservative. I find the average hour long HD program to only take about 15-20 minutes of the HD recording capability.

The DVR is dual-tuner and supports 2 TVs. However, while both tuners are HD, only one of the outputs does HD. That fits my current needs since I have 1 HD & 1 SD TV. It also kept cabling simple as the second TV (on a different floor) is fed via the house's pre-existing coax. When the second set goes HD I'll have to pick which gets HD but that's not much of an issue.

- There's a place to jack in a local OTA antenna for your non-satellite needs. Dunno if anything optional is required.
- It can use either wired Ethernet or POTS for calling the mothership.
- If that amount of recording isn't sufficient you can add external USB drives (requires a 1-time activation fee for the service but nothing per drive). You cannot watch from the external drives; you just move recorded items to/from them to manage DVR space.
- Looks like some kind of Slingbox integration is coming.
- One remote is IR; the other RF so there's no problem with the TVs being in different rooms. I don't know the RF range, though, as my sets DVR and RF remotes are just one floor apart.
- The DVR is pretty quiet. I may occasionally hear a little fan noise but it hasn't been anything annoying and my wife has never commented on it.
- As is usual for a DVR you can watch a pre-recorded show while one or two shows are recording. I don't know if you can watch two pre-recorded shows while two other shows record; we haven't tried. The site implies you cannot.
- The channel guide goes about 8 days out.
- We let it resolve recording conflicts (3 shows in a time slot) by priority. When you set shows to record they're assigned priorities (new shows go at the end). You can raise/lower priorities as needed.
- For a show you can record it once, all new episodes, all episodes, etc.
- By default it will start recording a minute early and stop two minutes late to account for shows not being perfectly lined up with the hour. This setting can be changed at the show & system level.

The DVR interface is pretty nice but not perfect. I definitely like it better than what I've seen from Comcast. I don't have direct Tivo experience to compare but overall I'm reasonably pleased with the UI. You can group shows into folders based on the show's name. I wish they'd let you create your own folders and move shows into them so we could move the shows that only one of us watches out of the main list.

The service is what you'd expect of satellite. Pretty darn good unless there's a storm severe enough to block the signal. Which is only a few times a years in the Chicago area.

My monthly for GoldHD, Classic Silver 200 (includes local channels), HD DVR, and taxes runs $84 a month.

 

[Stereodude]

I don't really intend to connect the Dish tuner to my 2nd HDTV, but I want to ensure I get a dual tuner DVR, not a single tuner DVR, so I plan to order for a 1HD 1SD configuration.

It sounds like it will do what I want. Now I need to confirm that I can really get internet only U-verse for the rates they show on the website.

 

[Stereodude]

Edit: Double post removal.

 

[timwhit]

Can you get Verizon FiOS in your area?

 

[Stereodude]

Well, I called AT&T, and they're going to go out and confirm if I can get or can't get U-verse since my house is not in their database. I was told it will take 3-5 days for confirmation. That shouldn't be a problem since my neighbor has it and I believe it's FTTP as well.



I was also told that via the telephone I can not order just internet through U-verse. They said I need to order a bundle and then cancel the non-internet portion after it is installed and setup. Their website however will allow ordering just internet.

 

[Stereodude]

Can you get Verizon FiOS in your area?

Nope...

AFAIK, Verizon has not deployed FIOS where they are not also the local phone company. Where I am is all AT&T (former SBC) territory.

 

[Fushigi]

Wow, what a craptacular install job. I especially like the extra cable waiting to be cut and the open-topped conduit that's just begging to take rain and insects who-knows-where. Honorable mention to AT&T for not even bothering to cable-tie together the wires coming from their box.

 

[timwhit]

Nope...

AFAIK, Verizon has not deployed FIOS where they are not also the local phone company. Where I am is all AT&T (former SBC) territory.

Yeah I can't get it either. I wish there were more competition. I can get either Comcast, RCN, or AT&T for cable/internet.

 

[Stereodude]

Yeah I can't get it either. I wish there were more competition. I can get either Comcast, RCN, or AT&T for cable/internet.

My biggest complaint against AT&T U-verse is that they don't seem interested in eating the local cable companies lunch. Verizon offers a superior product to cable for like 2/3rds the price. People are lined up to dump their cable companies and get it. I mean who doesn't hate their cable company? And, as a result the cable companies in those areas have dropped their prices and improved their offerings to stem the bleeding of customers.

In they case of AT&T, they're offering a slightly inferior service (compared to cable) that is more or less on par with the local cable company in terms of price. AT&T seems content with only picking off some small percentage the cable companies customers. The local cable companies clearly don't feed threatened by U-verse since they're not stepping up their game by improving their offering or dropping their prices. So much for competition driving down prices.

I'm almost convinced that AT&T and the local cable companies are in collusion with each other.

 

[timwhit]

I think a lot of the problem is that an oligopoly is really not much better than a monopoly.

An oligopoly is a market form in which a market or industry is dominated by a small number of sellers (oligopolists). The word is derived from the Greek for few (entities with the right to) sell. Because there are few participants in this type of market, each oligopolist is aware of the actions of the others. The decisions of one firm influence, and are influenced by, the decisions of other firms. Strategic planning by oligopolists always involves taking into account the likely responses of the other market participants. This causes oligopolistic markets and industries to be at the highest risk for collusion.

There are a couple options to fix the problem:
1. Regulate the industry as if it were a monopoly.
2. Promote more competition through less regulation on use of public lands or less regulation on other delivery methods (wireless).
3. Punish the corporations that are colluding. (very hard to prove).

I don't see any of these happening anytime soon.

 

[Stereodude]

Yeah, it sucks... I also looked into getting a cellular data card & the mating cellular/wi-fi router, but it isn't a very viable option either because of BW limits. Fixed WiMAX isn't anywhere to be found, so as you point out we're at the mercy of the oligopoly.

 

[timwhit]

There are some interesting wireless technologies coming down the pipe, but who knows how long it will take for a viable solution to come to the market.

I live in pretty high density area (30,000/sq mi), so hopefully one of these wireless technologies will be viable to deploy in my area within the next couple years. If you live out in the sticks, it could be much longer before you're able to get anything other than cable or DSL.

 

[Stereodude]

Unfortunately I think the same oligopolists are going to end up controlling those new wireless technologies as well.

 

[timwhit]

Unfortunately I think the same oligopolists are going to end up controlling those new wireless technologies as well.

Many of these technologies are not owned by a single corporation. Rather they are standards, that anyone can build a device to.

My hope is that the cost of deploying a network will go down substantially if you only need to deploy monopoles and repeaters to add service to a neighborhood. This will spur investment and hopefully we will see more competition enter the marketplace.

One of the big hurdles is the amount of frequencies the gov't will allow providers to use.

The other one that I can think of right now is if there are large licensing costs involved in using other company's technology or designs. But, I believe most of the antenna/infrastructure market isn't controlled by the providers, so this shouldn't be a huge deal.

 

[sechs]

That shouldn't be a problem since my neighbor has it and I believe it's FTTP as well.

Unless your housing development is very new, probably not. In most locations, U-verse is deployed as VDSL over the existing copper. Unfortunately, this means that, at some point, one house can get it, but the neighbors can't.

I was also told that via the telephone I can not order just internet through U-verse. They said I need to order a bundle and then cancel the non-internet portion after it is installed and setup. Their website however will allow ordering just internet.

That person doesn't know what they are talking about. The above used to be the case, but hasn't been for at least six months. Once you're properly in the database, you should be able to order online, anyway.

 

[sechs]

Verizon has not deployed FIOS where they are not also the local phone company. Where I am is all AT&T (former SBC) territory.

Actually, there is known to be one housing development in Texas which has both FiOS and U-verse deployed. While officially an AT&T coverage area, it apparently neighbors a Verizon service area, and making it easy to extend service.

Verizon has let it be known that, where it made sense, they would extend FiOS outside of their service areas. In general, however, where U-verse is set up, it's not worth competing with it *and* the incumbent cable television company.

 

[sechs]

In they case of AT&T, they're offering a slightly inferior service (compared to cable) that is more or less on par with the local cable company in terms of price. AT&T seems content with only picking off some small percentage the cable companies customers. The local cable companies clearly don't feed threatened by U-verse since they're not stepping up their game by improving their offering or dropping their prices. So much for competition driving down prices.

Where I live, there are two cable companies, as well as U-verse. I'd say that about a third of the people here have Comcast, even though it costs more and is crappy. Why? They offer great intro rates, and it turns out that people are amazingly stupid. Once you get most people to switch, they stay, even as you raise the price.

Where my sister lives, once U-verse went live, she was able to negotiate a better deal with her cable company (which is Cox). But they weren't going to advertise a price lower than U-verse, because they are entrenched there. And, actually, I think that their comparable prices are higher.

When I had U-verse it was miles better than what cable (Comcast) was offering. But, as mentioned, Comcast really sucks. Maybe your local cable company is better -- but you're obviously not willing to pay for that.

 

[Stereodude]

Unless your housing development is very new, probably not. In most locations, U-verse is deployed as VDSL over the existing copper. Unfortunately, this means that, at some point, one house can get it, but the neighbors can't.

It is a very new subdivision (about 2 years old), and the neighbor does have FTTP. I checked the "cable" running to the box on the side of their house and the writing on the part I could read said "optical fiber".

 

[MaxBurn]

Where I live, there are two cable companies, as well as U-verse. I'd say that about a third of the people here have Comcast, even though it costs more and is crappy. Why? They offer great intro rates, and it turns out that people are amazingly stupid. Once you get most people to switch, they stay, even as you raise the price.

Truly fascinating isn't it? I think I read some studies saying that low income housing always tend to have better cable packages than housing areas that have a higher than average income. I guess if you have no ambitions or feelings that you want to do better then you sit at home and watch TV. Guess most could guess that but it is just really something to see it put down on a map.

Myself I have already decided next time I move there must be something fiber available but till then I am pretty happy on a decent ADSL with no television feed at all, I don't even run an antenna.

 

[Mercutio]

I pay for Comcastic Business service, so when I have a seven hour outage like the one I had until about 10 minutes ago, at least I can call Comcast Business and they'll say more than "Can you reboot your modem?"

 

[ddrueding]

I just upgraded a client to the 50/10 Comcast service. It actually clocked in at more than that, with a 17ms ping to their other offices. Very sweet.

 

[Mercutio]

I would pay obscene amounts of money for 50/10 internet service, even if it were shitty Comcast. The idea of having a 10Mbit upstream pipe gives me a happy.

 

[ddrueding]

I think he's paying $350/mo.

 

[Stereodude]

The idea of having a 10Mbit upstream pipe gives me a happy.

You must do some serious uploading.

 

[Handruin]

I have to admit that I'm not too bothered by my cable which is Charter. I get what I pay for, which is a 16 down/2 up package and I get all most all of it. I don't watch much TV, so I only pay for the very basic cable because it gets my muli-package discount which is cheaper. I'd still prefer FIOS for faster internet, but I really can't complain about Charter. From my understanding, FIOS is in my area, but when I spoke to a person about it, they said my townhouse complex would have to agree to allow them in before I can get it.