Video card value: ATI?

[Tea]

Here is an example of a supplier's email sent to me today. Taking the Nvidia prices as a benchmark (for they are around about the normal $A going rates for Nvidia based stuff) is there any reason I should look at any of the ATI cards in prefference?

TNT2 M64 32Mb $58

TNT2 M64 32Mb PCI    $73

Geforce 2MX-200 32Mb    $75

Geforce 2MX-400 32Mb    $80

Geforce 2MX-200 32Mb PCI    $105

Geforce 2MX-400 32Mb w/TV    $90    (Special)

Geforce 2MX-400 64Mb    $105

Geforce 2MX-400 64Mb PCI    $125

Geforce 2MX-400 64Mb w/TV    $115

Geforce 2MX-400 64Mb PCI w/TV    $135

Geforce 4 MX440 64Mb DDR w/TV    $195    Now special for $170

Auriga "Excalibur' By HIS (Power By ATI Chipset) ATI Rage 128Pro 32Mb    $50

ATI Radeon 7000 VE, 32Mb with TV Out, Twinhead Display    $85

ATI Radeon 7000 VE, 32Mb with TV Out, Twinhead Display, PCI    $95

ATI Radeon 7000 VE, 64Mb with TV Out, Twinhead Display    $100

ATI Radeon 7000 VE, 64Mb DDR with TV Out, Twinhead Display    $115

ATI Radeon 7500LE, 64Mb with TV Out, Twinhead Display    $135

ATI Radeon 8500 64Mb DDR w/TV, DVI, Dual Head    $339

ATI Radeon 8500 128Mb DDR w/TV, DVI, Dual Head    $369    Now special for $330

TNT2 M64 32Mb $58

TNT2 M64 32Mb PCI    $73

Geforce 2MX-200 32Mb    $75

Geforce 2MX-400 32Mb    $80

Geforce 2MX-200 32Mb PCI    $105

Geforce 2MX-400 32Mb w/TV    $90    (Special)

Geforce 2MX-400 64Mb    $105

Geforce 2MX-400 64Mb PCI    $125

Geforce 2MX-400 64Mb w/TV    $115

Geforce 2MX-400 64Mb PCI w/TV    $135

Geforce 4 MX440 64Mb DDR w/TV    $195    Now special for $170

Currently we are mostly using:

TNT M64
Gforce II MX-400 64MB TV Out
Gforce II Ti 64MB DDR TV out and video in (MSI)

I expect that we will trasnsition more or less the entire video card range within the next month or so. What to, I'm not sure.

 

[Mercutio]

Since my supply of cheap G4x0s dried up I've been using ATI Rage128s at the low end. I didn't see those on your sheet, but I find the green on light grey hard to read...

Anyway, the Rage128 is a good enough card for most people. I don't know how drivers were historically (it's an old card, after all), but now it's pretty fuss-free. 2D is a notch below Matrox, 3D about equivalent to the M64 you have at the low end of your present lineup.

Someone with a bit more money, I sell a Radeon 7200 32MB. 2D display is good, like the Rage (and better than any nvidia card, although I admit I haven't seen anything newer than a GF2 GTS). I don't see a quote for that one. CougTek says the 7000 is a slightly lower-quality product (at least, I think it was CougTek). No matter, Radeon 7x00 cards seem to outpace the GF2 MXs without much difficulty in 3D tests and 2D *is* good. They're a decent value any way you look at it.

I've done exactly ONE 8500LE. I was happy with it. My customer was happy with it. In the US, they're cheaper (I paid I think $120 for it). A good high-end card.
My advice: Buy a few of the middle-end Radeons, the 7000 or the 7500, and do a side-by-side test against the GF2 MXs. The Rage is nice, too, for an older chip, but I doubt you'll do much better for your low-end than that AU$58 .

 

[Tea]

Thanks, Mercutio. I think you have sorted my entry level for me at any rate.

Hidden up there in the fine print is:

"Auriga "Excalibur' By HIS ATI Rage 128Pro 32MB $50

In fact it was spotting that one which prompted me to ponder using it to replace our M64s which, although I've never particularly liked them, have been completely trouble-free since we got rid of the last of the horrible old Ali chipset Socket 7 boards a year or two ago. $8 cheaper, probably better at 2D, better at 3D as well you say - that's sounds hard to beat.

I don't much like being an all-Nvidia shop, but the convenience of having just one single driver for everything we sell is a boon. (Well, we sell the odd bit of exotica - in Oz a 16MB Matrox G400 is exotic, costs more than a 64MB Gforce II MX-400 with TV out believe it or not - and a dwindling number of 8MB SiS or S3 2D-only cards at the very low end.)

Now they are HIS, a generic manufacturer and I've heard the odd bad thing about generic ATI cards, mostly with regard to poorer RAMDACs and lower frequency chips, I think - but what the hell - we are selling a variety of TNT and Gforce cards from the generic makers, including HIS and they have been perfectly acceptable for what they are.

The Gforce II GTS is long gone now, replaced by the GF II Ti, which itself is no longer manufactured, though we still have stock.

And the 7000s look attractive too, following your comments. (Not knowing Jack Squat about the ATI chipsets, I don't know what to compare them to when I see them on a price list.) I see that there is a 64MB DDR 7000 VE twinhead with TV out (I couldn't care less about TV out myself but some people seem to want it) for AU$115 - i.e., the same price as a GF II MX-400 in the same configuration but without the DDR. Better try that one too.

As for comparing them, I'm useless at that. Oh, I can crank the res up and look at some fine print on a decent monitor and come to a reasonable judgement of the 2D quality, but I wouldn't know a 3D feature if I swallowed it. (Which is why, when it comes to video cards, I rely on you guys.)

Looks like another job for Sol or Michael or David. (David and Michael are our part-timers - being 17 or so and male, they are really useful for stuff like this.)

 

[Mercutio]

It'll be interesting to hear what Coug and Buck might say, of course.

Matrox used to use lower-quality RAMDACs in OEM cards vs. their retail stuff. At the time it was a HUGE difference - 200MHz vs. 250MHz, IIRC for the Millenium II. The thing is, how many cards are you going to sell that will be used to drive monitors at even 1280x1024, let alone the higher settings, where a fast RAMDAC really makes a difference.

I don't recall what the RAMDAC speed is on the 7x00s. But if your budget card manages something around 250MHz or 275 or 300MHz, even, I wouldn't complain. It's a budget card, remember?

Anyway, I don't feel comfortable advising you to use a card I haven't tried. But if the alternative is nvidia, maybe it's worth a try.

 

[Buck]

ATI Rage 128 PRO for low-end.
MSI GeForce2 MX 400 32MB or 64MB for higher-end.
I presently use these for the majority of my sales, although the occassional high-end graphics or gaming card is required.