What should I do with this POS?

[Clocker]

It's a Packard Bell Legend 1990CDTW. P133 with 24MB RAM. 1.2GB Seagate IDE, 4x IDE CDROM, Ensoniq ES1371 Sound and 3COM ISA 10mb NIC.

I can connect it to my router for a net connection. What is the best thing I can do with this thing in your opinion? It is in perfect shape & very clean. I don't think it would be much help Folding but what do you think??

C

 

[Mercutio]

It'd make a great little firewall. OpenBSD is your friend.
Or a print server.

Connect it to your network and to your stereo for instant MP3 access.

Make it a dedicated virus-scanner.

Test box for (some) parts?

DOS gaming.

Web Server.

Backup point for little stuff like OS and driver files. Add a 40GB disk and controller and it'll be a nice, safe place to keep ghost images, too.

Had enough yet? There are very few computers in the world that are actually useless.

 

[Platform]

It's generally not worth trying to make into an "appliance" mainly because of electricity consumption.

 

[Clocker]

It'd make a great little firewall. OpenBSD is your friend.
Or a print server.

Connect it to your network and to your stereo for instant MP3 access.

Make it a dedicated virus-scanner.

Test box for (some) parts?

DOS gaming.

Web Server.

Backup point for little stuff like OS and driver files. Add a 40GB disk and controller and it'll be a nice, safe place to keep ghost images, too.

Had enough yet? There are very few computers in the world that are actually useless.

My i810 P3 1Ghz system downstairs does all that.

Maybe Linux with Samba for WinXP file sharing? Does Samba work with WinXP?

C

 

[Clocker]

Downloading Mandrake as I type. All three CDs...245KB/Sec. (1960mbps) Mmmm I still love my new ISP.

C

 

[i]

I just spent 20 minutes writing up a post, only to have Mozilla crash on me. I don't suppose posts that were "previewed" get cached somewhere on the server? Bah. Here I go again....


Clocker, keep that system. Or give it to me.

Despite having worked on more Packard Bell systems than I care to admit, their Pentium-based systems were not too bad - INTERNALLY. Externally they were a heap of steaming goat manure. I lost more blood to those Packard Bell cases than to any other design! I still curse the Packard Bell designers who came up with those $#%&@# cases! Argh!

Anyway ... what was I saying? Oh yeah ... keep it.

All the support material for old PB systems was transferred years ago to here:

http://www.priorityonesupport.com/

Sign up for their "service". It's free. I did years ago using a hotmail account and I never got any junk mail from them.

Once you've got an account, you'll have full access to their site. I think you'll be surprised by just how much support material is available for older Packard Bell systems. The first thing you'll need to do is figure out what ID code Packard Bell used for the motherboard in your system. It'll probably start with "PB" and then have a three digit number. The old Packard Bell Executive 75x series systems I used to deal with so much had "PB 640" motherboards. Anyway, on the priorityone site, I believe there's a section you can go to where you enter your computer's model and serial numbers and they'll tell you what motherboard you've got. Failing that, you should be able to find it on a sticker either inside or on the outside of the case. Once you've got that motherboard ID, you are COOKING!

With that info, you should be able to find the last BIOS updates ever made for you motherboard. It wouldn't surprise me if it's an Intel motherboard you've got in that system. Anyway, beyond that, you can download manuals for your motherboard - and they actually tend to be both A) readable, and B) useful. One of the things you should find out is how much RAM your system can take, and what the maximum speed processor it'll handle is. Jumper information will be included too (not just for the processor, but for all the jumpers on the motherboard).

I'd be surprised if your system can't take up to at least a P166 MMX processor. Depending on its age, it may also take a P200 Overdrive CPU. Or, if you're really lucky, it'll take the real P200, or even a P233 MMX CPU. Where do you find such things these days?

Look here:

http://www.computersurplusoutlet.com/showproduct.asp?Category=4

It would cost about $19 to $39 to max out that motherboard CPU-wise.

Don't throw that system out!

 

[Mercutio]

Good luck trying to get Samba and XP to play nice. They just don't.
Although learning Linux is a more than admirable goal; I wouldn't be surprised if you find Mandrake more usable than the HP boxen you use at work.

 

[Santilli]

Donate it to a school...

We could use it. They are fine for word processing etc. with a little bit more ram.

Anyway to expand the ram?
gs

 

[Clocker]

I just picked up two 64MB FPM SIMMS so I should have 144MB when it is all loaded up....

C

 

[Clocker]

I just spent 20 minutes writing up a post, only to have Mozilla crash on me. I don't suppose posts that were "previewed" get cached somewhere on the server? Bah. Here I go again....


Clocker, keep that system. Or give it to me.

Despite having worked on more Packard Bell systems than I care to admit, their Pentium-based systems were not too bad - INTERNALLY. Externally they were a heap of steaming goat manure. I lost more blood to those Packard Bell cases than to any other design! I still curse the Packard Bell designers who came up with those $#%&@# cases! Argh!

Anyway ... what was I saying? Oh yeah ... keep it.

All the support material for old PB systems was transferred years ago to here:

http://www.priorityonesupport.com/

Sign up for their "service". It's free. I did years ago using a hotmail account and I never got any junk mail from them.

Once you've got an account, you'll have full access to their site. I think you'll be surprised by just how much support material is available for older Packard Bell systems. The first thing you'll need to do is figure out what ID code Packard Bell used for the motherboard in your system. It'll probably start with "PB" and then have a three digit number. The old Packard Bell Executive 75x series systems I used to deal with so much had "PB 640" motherboards. Anyway, on the priorityone site, I believe there's a section you can go to where you enter your computer's model and serial numbers and they'll tell you what motherboard you've got. Failing that, you should be able to find it on a sticker either inside or on the outside of the case. Once you've got that motherboard ID, you are COOKING!

With that info, you should be able to find the last BIOS updates ever made for you motherboard. It wouldn't surprise me if it's an Intel motherboard you've got in that system. Anyway, beyond that, you can download manuals for your motherboard - and they actually tend to be both A) readable, and B) useful. One of the things you should find out is how much RAM your system can take, and what the maximum speed processor it'll handle is. Jumper information will be included too (not just for the processor, but for all the jumpers on the motherboard).

I'd be surprised if your system can't take up to at least a P166 MMX processor. Depending on its age, it may also take a P200 Overdrive CPU. Or, if you're really lucky, it'll take the real P200, or even a P233 MMX CPU. Where do you find such things these days?

Look here:

http://www.computersurplusoutlet.com/showproduct.asp?Category=4

It would cost about $19 to $39 to max out that motherboard CPU-wise.

Don't throw that system out!

It is a 1990 CDTW. Any hints to it's upgradeability?

 

[i]

It is a 1990 CDTW. Any hints to it's upgradeability?

Did you try to follow the instructions I posted?

If you don't want to wade through that site, I don't mind looking through some of it. You'll have to post here all the information off the labels on the computer though. There should be a couple of paper labels on the back of the case. At the very least I'd need the serial number, and you'll have to check to see if there isn't a longer model number too (e.g. 7PB-1990-CDTW-X3, or whatever, instead of just 1990 CDTW ... there may or may not be more to the model number than that).

 

[Clocker]

Yeah., I went to the site but had no luck finding anything after I registered.

The S/N is N456050552 +
Other number on the back: A950-TWR


Model is Legend 1990CDTW

Pentium 133
16MB RAM
1.2GB Seagate HDD
4x CDROM
Ensoniq ES1371 (or was it 1370?) Soundcard
14.4 Modem

If you could help me out with any more details I'd appreciate it. THe part where you enter your S/N seems to be work in progress because it didn't work last night. I'd just like to know the max CPU and SIMM size this board can take. I have two 64MB SIMMs coming and am not sure if they will work.

C

 

[i]

Ugh! Sorry about that Clocker ... you're right, the look-up function appears to be out of commission. I've sent them an email about it. Hopefully I'll get a reply and they'll fix it.

If the labels are at all like the ones I've seen, they'll have a few numbers and/or barcodes scattered around haphazardly. The serial number and model numbers should be marked as such, but you'll also see the occasional "code" that has no helpful description as to what it's for. To you or me it would just look like a random digit or bunch of letters.

On one of the labels, perhaps off to one corner - almost like it has no importance - there might be written something like one of the following:

PB nnn

PB nnn MMX

PB nnn R

The "nnn" will be a three digit number (in very rare cases it might be a four digit number). There might be an "R" or "MMX" after it, but those are a bit rare too.

Despite the fact that it's such an insignifant little piece of text, and not marked up in any distinct way at all, the code is important. It tells you what type of motherboard you've got in the system. I suppose it's possible you may not have such a code on a label, although every Packard Bell system I've seen to date has had it on a label somewhere.

To help narrow it down for you a bit, I've worked backwards from the information at the priorityone site, and have come up with a list of "best guesses". See if you notice any of the following:

PB 540
PB 550
PB 560
PB 570
PB 580
PB 590
PB 600
PB 620
PB 630
PB 640
PB 650
PB 660
PB 680
PB 680 MMX
PB 770

Even without the code, I have some guesses about what the limits are on your system, but if you could give it one last shot at looking for one of the above codes, I'd feel a lot better about offering advice.

 

[i]

Well Clocker, with that search function still down on the priorityone site, I figured I'd try a general search on Google. According to this site:

http://www.memoryx.net/legend1990cdtw.html

...the Legend 1990CDTW is limited to a maximum of 136 MB of RAM. Now, I've seen online discount memory shops post all sorts of bogus info in the past, so they could be wrong.

If they're right however, you should be able to pull all the current SIMMS out of the system and still have the thing boot ... and show 8 MB of RAM present. This wouldn't surprise me too much, as the last "Legend" system I dealt with (81CD) had 8 MB of RAM built in to the motherboard also. What this would mean is, according to the one site above, you're limited to using 32 MB SIMMS:

32 MB x 4 = 128
+ 8 MB built-in
------------
136 MB RAM

Now, even if that site is correct, they may be stating the maximum memory for the default system as it came from the factory. As I've mentioned, there are a substantial number of BIOS updates around on that support website, so I guess it's possible that a newer BIOS than the original one might allow it to take 64 MB SIMMS. I don't know how likely that is though.

As for the CPU, well ... let's hope those lackeys at priorityone get their site fixed. Assuming you really do have a Packard Bell Pentium-class system with 8 MB of built-in RAM, that would make me lean towards guessing you've got a "600" motherboard. Which would really bite, because according to the priorityone site, 133 MHz was the fastest it could do processor-wise. Then again, a BIOS update could affect that too. :roll:

 

[Clocker]

I think I have the dreaded '600'.

Here are some quick & dirty pics for you to view:

http://www.storageforum.net/clocker/pbell/

Let me know what you think....THANKS!

Clocker

 

[Mercutio]

While I don't specifically remember Packard Bell motherboards or anything else about their limitations - I used to tell people to throw them away when they got old, an entirely defensible policy in my experience - I do recall the enclosure in your pictures being one of the worst sons-of-bitches I ever had the misfortune of working on. Particularly if you had to replace the power supply.

 

[jtr1962]

I can't tell the exact number of your M/B from those pictures, but it is definitely not a 570, since that is what I'm using for my everyday "Internet" computer.

As to upgradeability, my M/B does not support 64 MB SIMMs so it maxes at at 128 MB, which is what I have(there is no built-in RAM). My maximum clock speed using a standard Pentium processor is 133 MHz, but the M/B has no problems with a 200 MHz Evergreen Pentium upgrade processor. I would imagine the 233 MHz would work as well, and possibly the 333 MHz and 400 MHz. These can both be had on EBay fairly cheaply. Once these upgrades are done, such a machine is quite usable for everyday Internet surfing, although a bit slow for multimedia applications.

If your M/B does not support 64 MB SIMMs the likely result will be that they are either not recognized at all, or are recognized as 16 or 32 MB. I've never tried 64 MB SIMMs in mine so I can't really tell you what to expect, although I think there is near zero chance of my machine recognizing 64 MB SIMMs as such. I even have to be careful with which type of 32 MB SIMMs I buy(my machine supports 2K refresh, but not 4K).

 

[i]

While I don't specifically remember Packard Bell motherboards or anything else about their limitations - I used to tell people to throw them away when they got old, an entirely defensible policy in my experience - I do recall the enclosure in your pictures being one of the worst sons-of-bitches I ever had the misfortune of working on. Particularly if you had to replace the power supply.

I shuddered when I looked at those pictures. I dealt with a whole galloping herd of "Executive" series of PB systems that used that specific style of case. Personally I always found the RAM to be the worst thing to have to touch in those things ... the memory modules were wedged under the flange at the base. And to think I've had to deal with Packard Bell cases that were 10 TIMES WORSE THAN THAT ONE. I'm having flashbacks of a variety of designs in the "Force" series ... GACK!

I really meant it before when I said I still curse the bastards at PB who were responsible for their case designs.

 

[i]

I think I have the dreaded '600'.

Yes, given the odd memory configuration and what's stuck on that BIOS chip, I'd say you've got a PB 600 motherboard. That's too bad! There are several motherboard designs from that era at Packard Bell, and you happened to land one of the two that supported less than a P166 processor.

Head over to this section (you'll have to log in):

http://www.priorityonesupport.com/pbdrivers.asp

Grab the motherboard manual (you'll need the weirdo reader application to view it) and see what it says about jumper positions with respect to processor speed. As I mentioned earlier, you could try updating the BIOS to see if that improves your options. Usually if, for example, there are 6 pins on the relevant jumper block, but only 4 are mentioned in the manual that shows 133 as the maximum speed, sometimes a combination using the other two will give you a faster speed yet. I guess that could also blow something up, but it might be worth a try anyway. Check that manual first though - it should outline the chip and jumper positions on the motherboard, which will help you definitively say that it's a PB 600 board.

Thanks for posting the pictures by the way. As painful the memories are about the case, it's interesting to have seen yet another PB configuration. I might find that useful someday.

 

[Clocker]

I just found a BIOS update. Apparently, I can put up to a Powerleap 400 Mhz Processor in this thing based on a K6-2).
Interesting.
C

 

[i]

Oh hey, Mercutio! There's one case style from Packard Bell that ... well ... I'm sort of divided over whether it's a good thing I never ran into them or not. I think it would have been ok to have run into one of them:

http://www.priorityonesupport.com/downloads/pb/chassis/pb2000.htm

It's so darned nuts it almost leaves me with a sense of regret over never having had to deal with one.

Nah.

 

[i]

I just found a BIOS update. Apparently, I can put up to a Powerleap 400 Mhz Processor in this thing based on a K6-2).
Interesting.
C

Wow ... where did you find that one??

I have to ask though: will the processor actually run at 400 MHz in that board? Case in point, look at this motherboard for sale at HyperMicro:

http://www.hypermicro.com/store/motherboards.htm

Could you really expect this motherboard, that was designed to handle the original PII CPUs, to handle a 500 MHz CPU? I'm not sure if the board is physically capable of generating what's required to run a CPU at a higher clock speed. I'd wonder the same thing about that PB 600 motherboard and a 400 MHz CPU. I really don't know what the requirements are for that sort of thing.

Then again, Clocker if you have the option to try, I say go for it. It'd be cool if you can get it to work!

 

[jtr1962]

I'm not sure if the board is physically capable of generating what's required to run a CPU at a higher clock speed. I'd wonder the same thing about that PB 600 motherboard and a 400 MHz CPU. I really don't know what the requirements are for that sort of thing.

The Powerleap and Evergreen Pentium upgrades generate the higher frequency by multiplying the motherboard frequency of 100 MHz or 133 MHz. I think the 400 MHz Powerleap upgrade uses a multiplier of 3, so all the M/B has to put out is 133 MHz.

 

[i]

Clocker, is this the thing?

 

[i]

The Powerleap and Evergreen Pentium upgrades generate the higher frequency by multiplying the motherboard frequency of 100 MHz or 133 MHz. I think the 400 MHz Powerleap upgrade uses a multiplier of 3, so all the M/B has to put out is 133 MHz.

Thanks! I had no idea there were products out there that could do that.

 

[Clocker]

Yes. It can do a K6-2 or a K6-3!

Now I just have to find one at a cheap price. I'm not paying $80 for one...no way.

C

 

[i]

Semi-OT: I was looking through the PowerLeap website and noticed this. It looks like a single board computer ... that's marketed as a computer "upgrade". Anyone else finding this unique marketing?

 

[James]

Anyone else finding this unique marketing?

Just as unique as describing the onboard graphics as "Integrated AGP 4X VGA for vivid 3D graphics and video performance" - presumably vivid 3D graphics because you get a good long time to look at each frame.

Note too it doesn't say what kind of video performance you get - there's a noun missing an adjective if ever I saw one.

 

[Tea]

What should you do with that box? You should give it a network card and get it crunching Clocker - because I'm a comin up fast! :mrgrn:

 

[ywoodz]

Yeah., I went to the site but had no luck finding anything after I registered.

The S/N is N456050552 +
Other number on the back: A950-TWR


Model is Legend 1990CDTW

Pentium 133
16MB RAM
1.2GB Seagate HDD
4x CDROM
Ensoniq ES1371 (or was it 1370?) Soundcard
14.4 Modem

If you could help me out with any more details I'd appreciate it. THe part where you enter your S/N seems to be work in progress because it didn't work last night. I'd just like to know the max CPU and SIMM size this board can take. I have two 64MB SIMMs coming and am not sure if they will work.

C[/i need to know how to get into the bios for this model, anyone...]

 

[Mercutio]

As I recall it was one of TAB, F1, F2 or CTRL-S for the BIOS sequence.
That model would take 64MB Fast Page or EDO non-parity SIMMs and I am pretty sure it topped out at support for 256MB of RAM.

I dimly recall that the CPU was soldered to the board. If I'm wrong it probably has an Intel TX chipset that probably tops out at support for a P54C (non-MMX Pentium) 166MHz chip, but good luck figuring out where the jumpers for setting core voltage, frequency and multiplier are, and what the right settings would be for any particular processor.

This is a 10-year-old computer. It's REALLY not worth working on, except for the experience of working on it.

 

[Yoguess]

It's a Packard Bell Legend 1990CDTW. P133 with 24MB RAM. 1.2GB Seagate IDE, 4x IDE CDROM, Ensoniq ES1371 Sound and 3COM ISA 10mb NIC.

I can connect it to my router for a net connection. What is the best thing I can do with this thing in your opinion? It is in perfect shape & very clean. I don't think it would be much help Folding but what do you think??

C

i have same system which i get from a friend
im trying to upgrade harddrive but it wont see the new drive

n when i go in to BIOS i need password
do you know the password?

 

[Mercutio]

Pull the BIOS battery inside the case for a minute. If it's soldered in, strip some phone cable and lay the bare wire between the battery and something metal on the chassis, and flip the power on for a second. After that you will not have a password.

 

[i]

The BIOS password reset jumper might actually be labelled somewhere on the motherboard.

 

[Yoguess]

looked for the jumper but didnt find 1
i was looking for default factory password

also i tried the website someone suggested above for manual, but cant open viewer or the manual

 

[Mercutio]

The BIOS password reset jumper might actually be labelled somewhere on the motherboard.

Someone hasn't worked on enough Packard Bell hardware.

 

[Mercutio]

looked for the jumper but didnt find 1
i was looking for default factory password

The default password is no password at all. Someone set one, and clearing the CMOS will fix it.

On the other hand, it's impressive that a CMOS battery has lasted long enough that it's still a problem.

 

[i]

Someone hasn't worked on enough Packard Bell hardware.

I worked for years with PB hardware. There was a lot to complain about, but some of it wasn't that bad.

I will say that the cases however always sucked.

 

[Mercutio]

Meh. The Legend desktops weren't that bad. The towers, though... <gag>

 

[timwhit]

After I figured out how to open all of their cases and learned the nuances of each model, they weren't all that bad to work on.

Those damn snap on gray plastic pieces that they all had on the sides always broke though. And since they were customer computers, I would have to glue them back on.