Windows XP paging file & Speed Disk

[Groltz]

Using NTFS file system.

The problem is that even though I specify the pagefile.sys to be placed first on the disk, ahead of all other files, it ends up down at the bottom.
Fullscreen Snapshot
It doesn't happen immediately, but migrates down several weeks (and defragmentations) following a fresh XP installation. Once there, it stays there, for all I can do about it.

The way I have Speed Disk configured is like this:

Files First = pagefile.sys (this is the only entry)
Files Last = <blank>
Files at End = several rarely used, bulky files
Unmovable Files = <blank>

Even had I not specified pagefile.sys to be place first it is supposed to be placed next after the "files first" entries, according to the Speed Disk instruction literature. This doesn't work either. My paging file has matching initial and maximum size settings, and should easily be moved by Speed Disk.

Speed Disk Literature

If anyone could help me with this specific problem I would appreciate it.

--Steve

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[P5-133XL]

Set the page file to the start of the disk, make sure it is defragmented, and that the size doesn't change (min=max size) and then it won't migrate even upon defragmentation.

 

[Groltz]

Set the page file to the start of the disk

Through the Speed Disk file placement options? I already have it set that way. "Pagefile.sys" is the the sole entry on my "Files First" list.

make sure it is defragmented

Already done. I keep the paging file defragmented and contiguous.

and that the size doesn't change (min=max size) and then it won't migrate even upon defragmentation.

Already done. As I mentioned above I keep the min & max pagefile sizes the same. (I use 150MB)

Even with all this set correctly, the pagefile get pushed to the "bottom" of the disk over time, and stays there.

It seems to be some issue between Speed Disk and NTFS, but that's only my guess. When I used to run Speed Disk on Win98, it had no problems keeping the (correctly set up) Win98 swapfile right at the very front of the disk.

Thanks for responding Mark.

--Steve

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[P5-133XL]

If I remember correctly, weith speed disk, you can create a list of exceptions files/extenstions that speed disk won't touch. Since my previous solution didn't work, try telling speed disk not to touch the page file rather than telling it to put it first.

 

[Cliptin]

IIRC, there is a setting to move the page file to the beginning of the disk during defragmentation (seperate from putting the file pagefile.sys at the beginning).

You could also try making the file pagefile.sys unmovable.

 

[Groltz]

If I remember correctly, weith speed disk, you can create a list of exceptions files/extenstions that speed disk won't touch. Since my previous solution didn't work, try telling speed disk not to touch the page file rather than telling it to put it first.

You could also try making the file pagefile.sys unmovable.

Sure. You can list files and wildcards under "Unmovable files." I tried putting pagefile.sys under that category and ran a defrag session. No dice. It stayed at the bottom as it is in the picture in the first post.

IIRC, there is a setting to move the page file to the beginning of the disk during defragmentation (seperate from putting the file pagefile.sys at the beginning).

Not in my installation, unfortunately. When Norton SW 2003 is installed on a machine it senses what OS is being used and also what file system is being used. The combination of OS and file system dictates which features are available and which options/preferences can be selected. With WinXP Pro and NTFS, the only SD options are file placement (Files First, Files Last, Files at End, Unmovable Files) and these options.

In the registry there is a somewhat well known setting at "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management" called "ClearPageFileAtShutdown" which is a DWORD that can have a value of one or zero. I have tried running this one both enabled and disabled with reboots in between but it has no effect on what SD does with the paging file.

--Steve

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[Will Rickards WT]

That registry key just controls zeroing out the page file, it doesn't remove it or unallocate the space.

try changing the page file size to something small, then back to the original size. Maybe it will move it.

 

[P5-133XL]

If I remember correctly, weith speed disk, you can create a list of exceptions files/extenstions that speed disk won't touch. Since my previous solution didn't work, try telling speed disk not to touch the page file rather than telling it to put it first.

You could also try making the file pagefile.sys unmovable.

Sure. You can list files and wildcards under "Unmovable files." I tried putting pagefile.sys under that category and ran a defrag session. No dice. It stayed at the bottom as it is in the picture in the first post.

IIRC, there is a setting to move the page file to the beginning of the disk during defragmentation (seperate from putting the file pagefile.sys at the beginning).

Not in my installation, unfortunately. When Norton SW 2003 is installed on a machine it senses what OS is being used and also what file system is being used. The combination of OS and file system dictates which features are available and which options/preferences can be selected. With WinXP Pro and NTFS, the only SD options are file placement (Files First, Files Last, Files at End, Unmovable Files) and these options.

In the registry there is a somewhat well known setting at "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management" called "ClearPageFileAtShutdown" which is a DWORD that can have a value of one or zero. I have tried running this one both enabled and disabled with reboots in between but it has no effect on what SD does with the paging file.

--Steve

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Surely you know that you need to get the pagefile at the front of the disk before you make it unmoveable. After it has been moved, making it unmovable will simply keep it where is was at. The same goes for setting the page file to a fixed size. None of those solutions move the page file back to the start, they only make it so SD does not touch it wherever it is currently located.

 

[Groltz]

That registry key just controls zeroing out the page file, it doesn't remove it or unallocate the space.

Correct. "ClearPageFileAtShutdown" is a security feature that causes an overwrite of the paging file at shutdown. Enabling it will cause any sensitive data within the paging file to be destroyed before the computer reboots/shuts down. The reason I mentioned it was because I was curious if a paging file that was overwritten at shutdown would be movable by Speed Disk after a reboot. It made no difference, however.

try changing the page file size to something small, then back to the original size. Maybe it will move it.

I did a bit more experimentation. Making the pagefile smaller did not help. Changing the pagefile over to "System Managed", however, did make a difference. After running Speed Disk with the paging file configured thusly, it now began immediately following the "Frequently Modified" files. (Depicted in dark blue in the picture in the first post)
After getting the paging file placed that way I reset the size back to 150-150/min-max, rebooted, and ran SD again. The pagefile stayed in place.

A small victory, but an improvement nonetheless. It would still be nice to have the pagefile right at the very beginning of the disk, but it seems to be beyond the abilities of the controls I have available.

Thanks for the help, Will.

--Steve

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[Groltz]

Surely you know that you need to get the pagefile at the front of the disk before you make it unmoveable.

Yes Mark, but the problem is that I can't get it moved to the front of the disk in the first place. This is why I am asking for help. The solution I am seeking is how to get the pagefile to the front of the disk.

--Steve

 

[P5-133XL]

That is a different question than I was answering. I was answering how to keep the pagefile from migrating once you got it to the front of the disk.

To get it to the front requires a complete reinstall of everything from a blank partition or a defragmenter that will move stuff out of the way and plot that file at the start. Even after a reinstall from scratch, my experiance is that the pagefile will not be totally in the front, but it will be close. Also the page file tends to be slightly fragmented.

I have not tried this, but I think it may work. Install a blank disk onto a W2k/XP installation. Format it and put a fixed-size pagefile on it with nothing else on the drive. Then install The OS onto that drive. I believe that W2k/XP may use the pagefile on the drive rather than deleting it and re-constructing it during the install process. Thus it will be defraged and at the beginning of the drive. After reinstalling, then make sure that the pagefile is the same as it was when it was created (ie fixed). you can then install SD and make sure that it does not move the page file via the exception list.

The alternative is to use a defragmenter that will actually move it. Obviously SD is not the defragmenter to do that (you've tried and it has not worked), so keep trying different defragmenters. Each one will have different choices as to what to do about the page file. I don't know of one specificly that will move it to the start, but I have preaty much ignored them since NT4 (They don't seem to be worth the hassle to me).

Thus in the end, I'm of very limited help here because my solutions are very labor intensive and not guarrenteed to work. Sorry

 

[Groltz]

I appreciate the last comprehensive suggestion that you stated but it requires more resources than I possess. (Extra partitions and/or HDs)

From the research I have done, Speed Disk is supposedly the only Win2K/WinXP defragmenter capable of optimizing the location of the NTFS page file. In practice, as we have seen, this doesn't seem to hold true. While it is a bit aggravating to not be able to "put things where you want 'em", I don't see splitting any more hairs over this. Sure, having the page file placed at the fastest-access portion of the HD is nice, but I am not exactly hurting for what little additional performance it would provide.

Thus in the end, I'm of very limited help here because my solutions are very labor intensive and not guarrenteed to work. Sorry

Don't be silly. You alone took the time and effort to post four times in attempts to help me out...My Thanks. 8)


--SK

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[James]

I've found O&O Defrag will at least put the pagefile into one contiguous file, if necessary after every reboot. I haven't experimented with it enough to know if it will also move it to the front of the disk - I don't use it at present. It will also defrag the MFT, which may or may not be useful.

The downside is that I found it quite slow.

 

[Cliptin]

I am a little stumped. A version of SW I have (2001?) has in the past moved the page file to the beginning of the drive in one continuous mass on Win2K. I have since uninstalled it because, like Mark, it wasn't worth the trouble to maintain.

I didn't have to go through any gyrations as I remember. Some check boxes or something else obvious. I don't recall ever checking to see if the page file stayed put. I always assumed setting the page file to identical max and min settings would be enough.

 

[Groltz]

I have tried both O&O and Perfect Disk. They will defragment the Page file, but not relocate it to an optimum postion, AFAIK. Also, the cool little program PageDefrag from Sysinternals will defrag the paging file.

Who knows, Clip? It may be that NSW-SD gives different options and results even between Win2K and WinXP.

 

[Clocker]

I just put my PF on a separate partition I created with PM 8.0. Works great and reduces disk fragmentation. I have my internet cache and Windows TEMP directories going to that little 1GB partition as well.

C

 

[blakerwry]

Don't you think that will increase seeking (now the hdd will have to make a full stroke more often if it is writing to the temp internet files or the page file while you're accessing data)

The alternative is to simply leave the pageing file somewhere amongst your data which will probably mean a 1/4 to 1/2 stroke but almost certainly not a full stroke. As long as the paging file isn't fragmented I don't see a problem.... ofcourse, the best solution is to put the paging file on another disk or in RAM altogether

 

[Clocker]

Nope.

Most of my programs and stuff are on my X15-36LP boot drive.

The TEMP Files /PageFile / Internet Cache is on a 1GB partition on my 36GB Atlas 10K III. The rest of the dthat rive is used for loading games and other data.

C

 

[P5-133XL]

There is a lot of good to having multiple paging files (one per disk - Not per partition). NT/W2K/XP all will use the first available drive for their paging activities. Thus if the computer is busy loading a program (and that is why it is paging ram out) then it will use the other for its paging activities. I believe that eliminating drive contention is much more important that a fast STR via defragmentation or manipulating the location of the page file.

 

[blakerwry]

Nope.

Most of my programs and stuff are on my X15-36LP boot drive.

The TEMP Files /PageFile / Internet Cache is on a 1GB partition on my 36GB Atlas 10K III. The rest of the dthat rive is used for loading games and other data.

ofcourse, the best solution is to put the paging file on another disk

to be more specific, another disk away from your OS/apps/anything that will be in use while you might be using the paging file.