XBOX HDDs

[Vlad The Impaler]

Have a look at:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/consumer/02q1/020204/index.html

Am I the only person who worries about buying a console with an HDD in it? Especially a cheap Seagate or WD IDE!

What happens if(when?) it fails outside warranty? Is this not going to have a major effect on the reliability of the XBOX compared to other consoles? Not one review that I have seen has even looked at this issue. The possibilty seems to have passed THG by in their effort to give the console a great review. Opinions?

 

[Mercutio]

I have to think that the Xbox hard disks are remaindered drives, anyway. 8.4GB disks? How many years since those have been made? The 10GB disk is a little better, but I have to think that either way, those disks have probably been sitting around a warehouse somewhere for 18 months or so.

Anyway. Yuck. Having a hard disk is good, but I'd pay more for additional storage space and a warranty on the drive.

Of course, that's why I own PCs.

 

[Clocker]

I wonder if you can upgrade/replace the HDD in an XBOX if you want/need to? THink they have special firmware or anything??

C

 

[Mercutio]

Yes. And a proprietary disk format, too. Yuck.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Yes, that is what I mean! Bearing in mind how unreliable cheap HDDs can be, I don't think that Microsoft are being very good about it. They are storing up a lot of crap for the future.

 

[Tannin]

Why do I feel so utterly unsurprised?

 

[HellDiver]

M$ could have easily gotten away with some other lower-capacity solution (generally speaking, from end user's standpoint the HDD is for savegames only, right?), but they didn't. And I think they had some rather compelling reasons to do so.

1. You don't expect your desktop HDD to fail within 2 years of purchase, do you? You don't expect your laptop drive to fail within 3 years either, despite a much heavier abuse vibration-, shock- and temperature- wise. So, why would you expect your console HDD to fail sooner than you'll throw out the console itself or donate it to some poor neighbors' kids? I don't think XBox will be of any meaningful value as a game console 3 years from now - but hey, that's just my personal opinion, right? It is based on the advances in graphics industry, however, so it's more of an educated guess...
2. Given all the .NET buzz (or rather "given M$'s commitment to making money out of everything, including thin air"), I wouldn't be surprised if some time from now M$ would release some form of software upgrade (for some admirable sum of money, of course, in best M$ traditions!) that would turn XBox into something much more than just a console. How about point-n-click email solution as an added value (based on M$ Hotmail, of course) ? How about an internet browser suddenly becoming available to an average Joe, without ever forcing him to use that intimidating "computer thang" (heavily depending on M$ portals, of course) ? Oh yes, people, I think Billy the Kid has some rather interesting ideas regarding XBox future that may actually rely on having a working HDD in the box! So, chances are, Billy will do his best to make sure that HDD is still working - selecting the right model and brand may easily do [a part of the] trick...
3. Finally, as it is, XBox packs pretty much everything M$ HomeStation should eventually have, making HomeStation nothing but a slightly beefed up and/or modified XBox... As in "evolutionary design". As in "saving money". As in "beta-testing M$-style". (actually this is sort of a counter-argument, but I'll list it anyway to preserve the full picture...)

In a word, I think HDD in a console in not too bad an idea, even from the consumer's standpoint - at least HDD in a very specific console manufactured by one very specific company with very large appetites and a proven ability to bend the market to suite its very specific need - to create revenues...

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

1. You don't expect your desktop HDD to fail within 2 years of purchase, do you? You don't expect your laptop drive to fail within 3 years either, despite a much heavier abuse vibration-, shock- and temperature- wise. So, why would you expect your console HDD to fail sooner than you'll throw out the console itself or donate it to some poor neighbors' kids?

You may not expect it to, but that does not mean that it will not! In my experience, no matter how good the drive is you get at least a 5% failure rate in the first two years. Cheap drives are worse.

With regards to the rest of what you said, I quite agree. MS is sure to want to update the system, but that is for their commercial benefit not the consumers. The fact is that HDDs will lower reliability; we just need to decide if the 'gains' are worth the risk.

Bearing in mind MS's record on technical support; i.e. non-existent, I think that it will all end in tears. Hopefully MS's, as console-buying consumers are less likely to take the same crap that the rest of us take from MS.

 

[timwhit]

What kind of warranty does the Xbox have? If the drive fails within the warranty period then I wonder how MS will go about replacing it...

Will the unit work if the hard drive is bad or not there?

-Tim

 

[Mercutio]

The typical warranty for drives in OEM products is equal to the OEM vendor's, and serviced by the OEM... which in the case of th xbox means a 1-year warranty serviced by microsoft, regardless of who made the drive.

 

[HellDiver]

You may not expect it to, but that does not mean that it will not! In my experience, no matter how good the drive is you get at least a 5% failure rate in the first two years.

At this point - granted your data applies to wider populations as well - a proper question to ask would be what's the mean failure rate of last generation consoles in general? And what's the distribution of those 5% over the period of 2 years (i.e. how many drives are DOA or fail shortly after delivery, etc).

MS is sure to want to update the system, but that is for their commercial benefit not the consumers.

I think adding a web browser, an email client and other web-related niceties via S/W update would benefit the consumers as well, especially "computer-challanged" consumers...

Bearing in mind MS's record on technical support; i.e. non-existent, I think that it will all end in tears.

AFAIK people are quite happy with the new M$ hardware (mice, keyboards, and what-not)... On the other hand, through good times and bad, the only way to get my Logitech S-48a from me is by cutting off my cold, dead fingers, so I wouldn't know how their H/W support really is...

 

[Sol]

I don't know if Microsoft are quite as likely to release an upgrade for the Xbox as everyone else seems to think. The reason being that if Microsoft can do it presumably somone else can too - most probably better to boot and alsmost cirtainly cheeper.
This wouldn't be a big issue if Microsoft were making huge amounts of oney off the Xbox, but fact is they're not. Actually Microsoft make a loss on every Xbox sold which they hope to make up on games sales and licencing. If somone could find a use for the Xbox which didn't involve paying huge amounts of money to Microsoft on a regular basis then the things would sell like hot cakes, which is ironically somthing that Microsoft just don't want.
On the other and they may figure that the population at large are too stupid realise that the consols could be modified for other es or that console modders are too stupid to do it in the first place or possibly even that that couldke legal action to outlaw any such modifications much the same as sony are currently trying to outlaw modchips.
At any rate I imagine that a program/device for formatting drives to work in the Xbox will be released sooner rather than latter so with any luck by the time everyones hard drives start dying two days out of warranty they should be pretty cheap to replace.

Will the unit work if the hard drive is bad or not there?

Nope absolutly not part of the hard drive is used to load the games onto so without it your stuffed.


By the by, Microsofts technical support on hardware is worse than abysmal. I have a Microsoft Intelli-mouse explorer sitting on my desk with about 4 years of warranty left and dead as a door nail. Whats worse since I installed Windows 2000 about a month after getting the mouse and it seems to be entirly incompatible with that OS (nice one Microsoft) I never really got a chance to use it. When I went to report this problem to Microsoft technical support I could not for a number of reasons.
1.To actually talk to somone directly you have to pay money.
2.To make a report electronically you have to enter the product serial number - the serial number on my mouse was the wrong number of digits to fit into Microsofts form.
3.Microsoft technical support do not respond to email.

Everyone loves MS bashing

 

[Tea]

If somone could find a use for the Xbox which didn't involve paying huge amounts of money to Microsoft on a regular basis ...

I wish somone could find a use for computers which didn't involve paying huge amounts of money to Microsoft on a regular basis. :wink:

 

[HellDiver]

The reason being that if Microsoft can do it presumably somone else can too...

Oh, I think M$ invested quite enough thought into making XBox priprietary enough to make it somewhat difficult. Probably not impossible, no, but likely anywhere between "nontrivial" and "impractical"...

Actually Microsoft make a loss on every Xbox sold which they hope to make up on games sales and licencing.

This is approximately what I've heard, I also think it may apply to other consoles in the beginning of their roads...
This is precisely the reason why I believe M$ might release some sort of upgrade to XBox at a later date (perhaps two or three years from now, perhaps sooner). By then, the graphics capabilities of XBox will probably be outdated, PS3 may just as well be raging, and XBox games sales may just be diminishing. And then out of the blue, XBox users will be proposed to shell out a nice sum of money for the opportunity to re-use their outdated console as web access device. .NET will be in full bloom, which means every client forced to go the M$ road will mean pure profits - profits off hardware that is too dated to perform in its original function... Or rather such an upgrade may show up much sooner than that, as an additional avenue of cash income off XBox.

Whats worse since I installed Windows 2000 about a month after getting the mouse and it seems to be entirly incompatible with that OS (nice one Microsoft) I never really got a chance to use it.

Despite being a big M$ hater that I am, I must admit that several IntelliMice installations under Win2k that I had to perform and maintain worked out just fine. Spare the usual crap you have to take if you want your mouse to be smarter than you are or if you want to use M$ product, but that's nothing specific to IntelliMice, if you ask me... I think Tony, CougTek and Mercutio should have more knowledge on the subj.

Everyone loves MS bashing

YES!

 

[Cliptin]

I have an Intellimouse Explorer (P/N X05-48976) that I have been using with several installations of Windows 2000 for about 8 months. It works perfectly on the USB port bar the known limitations of all mouse products with last generation LEDs and their refresh rates.

The explorer buttons will not work unless you install the free Intellimouse drivers from the Microsoft hardware website.

I'm sure there is a local computer shop in your area who can help you get it working. :wink:

 

[Sol]

The whole Intellimouse thing is a bit odd really. I think it may just be the version they sold in Oz or somthing as a freind had exactly the same issue as me, install the thing-it works fine for a couple of weeks and then all of a sudden the cursors all over the screen and the mouse wheel is going haywire. Install new drivers and the thing was fine for another couple of days or maybe a week and then off again. At any rate whilst trying to report my issues to MS I happened to turn the mouse upside down to check the serial number and bizzarly it hasn't worked at all since- little light doesn't even come on. And since it was a gift and I don't have a receipt (and the shop I got it from closed down) the four years remaining on the warrenty is a bit usless. Still can't bring myself to trhow it out though.

 

[James]

This is precisely the reason why I believe M$ might release some sort of upgrade to XBox at a later date (perhaps two or three years from now, perhaps sooner). By then, the graphics capabilities of XBox will probably be outdated, PS3 may just as well be raging, and XBox games sales may just be diminishing. And then out of the blue, XBox users will be proposed to shell out a nice sum of money for the opportunity to re-use their outdated console as web access device.

Surely a console is at such a low pricepoint that the R&D to develop the upgrade would never be recouped, especially if the upgrade has to be sold for less than the new console. In short, it'd be cheaper to toss your old XBOX and buy the new one (a YBOX or whatever) than to buy the upgrade.

It looks like the entry price for new consoles is $250-300, I don't see that changing for quite a while.

 

[James]

This is precisely the reason why I believe M$ might release some sort of upgrade to XBox at a later date (perhaps two or three years from now, perhaps sooner). By then, the graphics capabilities of XBox will probably be outdated, PS3 may just as well be raging, and XBox games sales may just be diminishing. And then out of the blue, XBox users will be proposed to shell out a nice sum of money for the opportunity to re-use their outdated console as web access device.

Surely a console is at such a low pricepoint that the R&D to develop the upgrade would never be recouped, especially if the upgrade has to be sold for less than the new console. In short, it'd be cheaper to toss your old XBOX and buy the new one (a YBOX or whatever) than to buy the upgrade.

It looks like the entry price for new consoles is $250-300, I don't see that changing for quite a while.

My 2 year old Intellimouse Optical became annoyingly unreliable (tracking-wise) a month or two ago. Rather than persue MS over it I bought a new one, since it cost all of A$45 at a shop down the road.

It seems terrible to let MS get away with it, but on the other hand, I have better things to do with my life than try to talk to a human (I use the word loosely) at MS.

 

[James]

Cool. I tried to post the first one above, and it told me to go wait a while until posting something so soon after my last post. So I sat around for a little, added a few words, posted it and blammo - it had posted both! Now that's weird.

 

[HellDiver]

At least now no one can say you're not persistent!

Anyhows, what's the usual grand total market for a console? 1 mil units? 10 mil?