4k video playback: What do you really need?

[Santilli]

Hi
I appear to be getting 4k playback, provided I have the following:

4k source, usually a Ultra High quality image or Bluray
Geoforce GTX 1060 3 GB
2.0 HDMI cable
Samsung 43" 4k
Classic Media Player
VLC
PowerDVD 18

I was considering picking up a Pioneer 4k internal writer/reader. 120.00 right now.

According to Cyberlink I need the following:
Operating System

Microsoft Windows 10 (64-bit with 2015 Nov. updates)

CPU

Intel 7th generation (Kaby Lake) Core i processors and above that support the Intel Software Guard Extensions (Intel SGX) technology.


Graphics Processor

Intel 7th generation (Kaby Lake) Core i processors integrated with Intel HD Graphics 630, Intel Iris™ Graphics 640 or above.

Ultra HD Blu-ray is supported only if a display is powered by Intel Graphics and supports HDCP 2.2. If your computer includes more than one graphics processor, Ultra HD Blu-ray is supported only on the display that is connected and powered by Intel Graphics.

Mainboard
(Motherboard)

A mainboard is required which supports the Intel Software Guard Extensions (Intel SGX) technology.
The Intel SGX feature needs to be enabled in the BIOS* settings, and allocated with 128 MB or above memory space.

To output Ultra HD Blu-ray movies to an external display, the connection port embedded on the mainboard must support HDCP 2.2.
For laptop PCs, please refer to the specification of your laptop to see if the external display connection (HDMI/DisplayPort) supports HDCP 2.2 output.

Display

[Display Device] (Required)
Display device with HDMI 2.0a/DisplayPort 1.3 or above connection interface, and must support HDCP 2.2.

[Display Cable] (Required)
HDMI 2.0a/DisplayPort 1.3 or above version cable without applying any adapters/splitters/repeaters.
[Screen Resolution] (Optional)
Ultra HD resolution (3840 x 2160) or above recommended.
[High Dynamic Range (HDR)] (Optional)
To enable the High Dynamic Range (HDR) of Ultra HD Blu-ray movie, the display device must support the HDR display feature and 10-bit color depth display capability with a HDMI 2.0a/DisplayPort 1.4 connection interface.

Memory

4 GB or above (6 GB recommended).

Disc Drive (ODD)
Optical disc drives that are certified for Ultra HD Blu-ray playback.

Hard Disk Space
(Installation)​

500 MB free space for installation.

Internet Connection

Required for program activation, first time to play of an Ultra HD Blu-ray movie, and other online services.

Other

Windows Media Player 9 or above is required.
Intel Management Engine** driver with version 11.6.0.1126 or above is required for Ultra HD Blu-ray playback features.


This looks like an attempt to sell hardware, that will run PD 18 easily.

Is all of this necessary?

 

[Stereodude]

Is all of this necessary?

Necessary for what? If you want to play UHD BD discs from a PC, yes. If you want to play back other UHD content that's not AACS 2.0 protected, no.

 

[LunarMist]

What is the source, Panasonic or other cameras, Youtubes, shady downloads?

 

[Chewy509]

Since he mentions CyberLink, I would assume physical UHD Blu-Ray purchased from a retail store.

Looks like the specs are from here: https://www.cyberlink.com/products/powerdvd-ultra/spec_en_US.html

 

[LunarMist]

The capabilities of various versions are listed here: https://www.cyberlink.com/products/powerdvd-ultra/compare-versions_en_NZ.html

 

[Stereodude]

I don't know why he wants to play back UHD BD's from a PC. A standalone player is cheaper than the optical drive + software and will near certainly have less issues. Plus it's a 43" TV... Good luck seeing "4k" resolution on that from any reasonable seating distance.

 

[LunarMist]

Yeah, I was about to say something about 43" being rather small. Maybe he's viewing from two feet.

 

[Santilli]

HMMM.
To Answer a few questions:
I was considering a computer setup, since the external UHD Players are in the 250.00 range.
Pretty much only burner is 120.
Trying out PDVD 18, vs. 12.
It loads, and reads my disk images from the absurd number of Bluray disks we bought, and the output is HD.

I also have a few 4k rips of movies, that play at 4k, and the result is pretty spectacular.

I am having a few problems with the new 4k.

Cleartype washes out print so it's hard to see.

Custom tuning is difficult, since for some reason, a lot of the adjustment options aren't available on this tv.

Xfinity and amazon do something with the signal that gives better color and depth on a 4k monitor then on a 1080.

Yes, I'm a bit more then arms length from the screen.
Wonder Woman, and the Fate of the Furious 8 are in 4k, and they are noticeably better then Bluray content.

 

[Stereodude]

I was considering a computer setup, since the external UHD Players are in the 250.00 range.

No they're not. They've been easily purchased for under $100. My Sony with Dolby Vision was just under $120 when I bought it.

But it sounds like you already bought all the parts and are using it, so what's the purpose of this thread other than indirect bragging?

 

[Santilli]

HMMMM. Only external player Costco offers is 250.00

My video card was purchased in 2008. Amazing it was even running 11 years later.
Needed replacing.

PDVD18 has a free 30 day trial.

The Samsung 4k was 225.00.
Appears to be defective. Goes back tomorrow. A ton of settings that should work, don't on this TV.

Costco lists a name, and some specs, but not enough to know which model you've got.

Example would be if you buy a Dell Inspirion 1500 5000, there are about 15 different variations, with different designations.
Costco doesn't post detailed info.

Another Example is Bose Noise Canceling head phones. They have two models. Costco sells the first one with no indication of the model, yet at near the second model price.

Jury is out on that.

Classic Media Player and VLC output at 4k for free, and Media Player Classic provides codecs for the newest playback formats.

David's been running this kind of stuff for years, since 2008 that I'm aware of.
I don't think half the 'required' hardware was out, and he had 4 monitors, in 4k running nicely.

I'm trying to figure out what is real, and what isn't, out of the Cyberlink "requirements"

While ok, this TV is not displaying the brilliant, vibrant stuff I expected, across the board.

Trying to figure out why.

If the Sony was only 100 bucks, sounds like 20 dollars cheaper then the internal Writer/Burner necessary.

Sounds like a much better idea then buying PowerDVD 18, though I must admit, I like that it does nearly everything I need a player to do, even if you can't figure out at times, what it is doing...

Call of Duty Modern Warfare is insane with the new video card...

 

[Stereodude]

HMMMM. Only external player Costco offers is 250.00

Well, they're not the only place to buy things. I sure didn't buy my Sony X700 from Costco. However, the current deals on UHD BD players are not as good as they were around Thanksgiving.

 

[DrunkenBastard]

Depending on the specific firmware version of the UHD optical drive you may be able to rip a 4k disk to your hard drive and play it from there without dealing with Win 10 and all the rest of the garbage. I ended up going with a Sony x800 player which is actually quite a pile of shit, constant lockups that require a full unplug to recover from. Next one will be a Panasonic UB820.

 

[Stereodude]

Depending on the specific firmware version of the UHD optical drive you may be able to rip a 4k disk to your hard drive and play it from there without dealing with Win 10 and all the rest of the garbage. I ended up going with a Sony x800 player which is actually quite a pile of shit, constant lockups that require a full unplug to recover from. Next one will be a Panasonic UB820.

What sort of lockups? I've had my X700 freeze playing back a movie (the player wasn't locked up though), but there turned out to be a small spec of debris on the disc that once removed the player was able to play through the same scene with no issue.

He can't rip the discs with the optical drive he has. The discs can only be ripped with UHD "friendly" drives that don't actually implement AACS 2.0. A drive that has AACS 2.0 can't rip them. A drive that doesn't have AACS 2.0 won't work with PowerDVD to play them. Some drives can be flashed back and forth, but AFAIK, Pioneer drives aren't one of them. Given that the drive plays them with PowerDVD, ripping them is out of the question.

 

[Stereodude]

While ok, this TV is not displaying the brilliant, vibrant stuff I expected, across the board.

Trying to figure out why.

Well, your expectations could be out of whack, maybe you're playing the wrong UHD content, or maybe you didn't buy a good "4k" TV with a wide enough color gamut and a large color volume.

 

[LunarMist]

Well, your expectations could be out of whack, maybe you're playing the wrong UHD content, or maybe you didn't buy a good "4k" TV with a wide enough color gamut and a large color volume.

It's probably a cheapie.

I don't know why people cannot be normal and play Blue-Rays on a BR player or watch online content on a smart TV with the Netflixes, Youtubes, Hulus, etc.

 

[Chewy509]

freeze playing back a movie (the player wasn't locked up though), but there turned out to be a small spec of debris on the disc that once removed the player was able to play through the same scene with no issue.

I've read quite a few complaints about how finicky some UHD BR players are with even with a tiny bit of dirt/grease/oil/fingerprint on the disc, and that while 4K contents looks gorgeous, having to polish discs before playing was getting old, very fast.

The days of playing super-scratched discs (CDs or DVDs) IMHO are now passed us, so expect to be replacing the discs more often if they are not taken care of.

UHD BR players in Oz start at AU$350 for the cheapest, in comparison BR players start at AU$99 and DVD players at AU$50 (with HDMI / upscaling) or AU$30 (component output). UHD hasn't seen much uptake here, but it is slowing increasing mainly when people are replacing their TV with a 4K model (which start at around AU$500 for an entry level 50").

 

[Stereodude]

I've read quite a few complaints about how finicky some UHD BR players are with even with a tiny bit of dirt/grease/oil/fingerprint on the disc, and that while 4K contents looks gorgeous, having to polish discs before playing was getting old, very fast.

I'm not entirely certain what the issue is. I think some of the discs are poorly made and they're right on the edge of the tolerances. I received a UHD disc that appeared to have some sort of defect in it that was much larger than the spec of debris that caused me issues and yet that disc played perfectly. I thought for sure I was going to have to try to return it for an exchange.

UHD BR players in Oz start at AU$350 for the cheapest, in comparison BR players start at AU$99 and DVD players at AU$50 (with HDMI / upscaling) or AU$30 (component output). UHD hasn't seen much uptake here, but it is slowing increasing mainly when people are replacing their TV with a 4K model (which start at around AU$500 for an entry level 50").

There were deals for some of the players under $100 last fall into the holiday season. I combined a 20% off one item sale at Ratuken for Black Friday with Sony's Holiday price drop to $150 to get the X700 down to ~$119. I would have preferred the Panasonic 820, but I wasn't about to pay $500. The Sony X700 was the least bad Dolby Vision capable option (that works with my TV) available at the time.

 

[DrunkenBastard]

What sort of lockups? I've had my X700 freeze playing back a movie (the player wasn't locked up though), but there turned out to be a small spec of debris on the disc that once removed the player was able to play through the same scene with no issue.

He can't rip the discs with the optical drive he has. The discs can only be ripped with UHD "friendly" drives that don't actually implement AACS 2.0. A drive that has AACS 2.0 can't rip them. A drive that doesn't have AACS 2.0 won't work with PowerDVD to play them. Some drives can be flashed back and forth, but AFAIK, Pioneer drives aren't one of them. Given that the drive plays them with PowerDVD, ripping them is out of the question.

The x700 was released a while after the x800, so I would assume us x800 beta testers paved the way for your stable production ready unit.

 

[DrunkenBastard]

I've read quite a few complaints about how finicky some UHD BR players are with even with a tiny bit of dirt/grease/oil/fingerprint on the disc, and that while 4K contents looks gorgeous, having to polish discs before playing was getting old, very fast.

The days of playing super-scratched discs (CDs or DVDs) IMHO are now passed us, so expect to be replacing the discs more often if they are not taken care of.

UHD BR players in Oz start at AU$350 for the cheapest, in comparison BR players start at AU$99 and DVD players at AU$50 (with HDMI / upscaling) or AU$30 (component output). UHD hasn't seen much uptake here, but it is slowing increasing mainly when people are replacing their TV with a 4K model (which start at around AU$500 for an entry level 50").

I've had to return two 4k discs to Amazon and Best Buy, significant scratches right out of the case. Other discs with smudges that look like fingers that need to be buffed out. I don't remember this many problems with blu rays.

 

[Santilli]

PowerDVD 18 is pretty amazing.
It seems to sense the settings on a questionable Samsung 4k TV, and put a picture up that works on it, better then VLC, or Classic Media Player.
It also auto mounts Bluray disk images, without having to use Clone DVD, and plays them???
Pretty amazing product, and with specials down to 60.00 us, it's making a pretty good case for itself.
It also seems to upscale lower quality video so that it looks really good at 4k resolutions.

 

[Stereodude]

It also auto mounts Bluray disk images, without having to use Clone DVD, and plays them???

Windows can mount ISO files natively. I has been able to for many years.

 

[Handruin]

It's probably a cheapie.

I don't know why people cannot be normal and play Blue-Rays on a BR player or watch online content on a smart TV with the Netflixes, Youtubes, Hulus, etc.

I no longer want to endure the bullshit load times, unskippable advertisements, and inconsistent playback due to dirty media when using a Bluray disc. Having all my Bluray movies in mkv containers and using software to catalog and present them is so much nicer than dealing with a Bluray disc player.

I also watch content from Netflix and youTube via a streaming device (Roku) like a normal person. Using Plex for my Bluray content is an extension of that which makes it even more normal.

 

[Stereodude]

I no longer want to endure the bullshit load times, unskippable advertisements, ....

UHD discs are much better in that regard. I haven't found one yet that has any trailers or advertising. They go straight to the menu.

 

[Handruin]

That's great to hear. Given the nature of ripping 4K right now, I may end up just buying a UDH player for my up and coming home theater.

 

[Stereodude]

That's great to hear. Given the nature of ripping 4K right now, I may end up just buying a UDH player for my up and coming home theater.

I didn't hear that ripping was much of an issue. I was under the impression that the latest AnyDVD + a UHD "friendly" drive would let you rip them without issue. Proper playback seemed to be more of the issue, or really getting proper HDR out of your PC. Admittedly, I haven't looked into very deeply.

 

[Handruin]

Finding the UHD friendly drive is where I've had problems figuring that out. I already have AnyDVD so I should be able to use that.

As for playback, I would use my nvidia shield which should work fine with 4K HDR.

 

[Stereodude]

Finding the UHD friendly drive is where I've had problems figuring that out. I already have AnyDVD so I should be able to use that.

As for playback, I would use my nvidia shield which should work fine with 4K HDR.

I found this list: https://www.deuhd.ru/supported.html

My understanding is that most "friendly" drives have been patched to stop them from reading the discs with firmware updates so if you buy one now you'll most likely have to roll back the firmware. https://forum.redfox.bz/threads/downgrade-uhd-drives-to-friendly-the-easy-and-safe-way.76551/ Also, some of the drives with official UHD support can be flashed into a friendly drive also (losing the ability to work as an official UHD drive). https://forum.redfox.bz/threads/converting-uhd-friendly-drive-into-uhd-real-and-viceversa.74544/

 

[Santilli]

Hi H
Which version of Any DVD do you use for ripping UHD? When they changed hands, I stopped the constant upgrades with them, since I really wasn't using them much, and the version I have, 7692, is from 2016.

 

[Stereodude]

Hi H
Which version of Any DVD do you use for ripping UHD? When they changed hands, I stopped the constant upgrades with them, since I really wasn't using them much, and the version I have, 7692, is from 2016.

I don't rip UHD discs. I haven't gotten a newer version of AnyDVD from when it changed to Redfox. I was skeptical that they wouldn't be shut down again and was not happy about them screwing all the owners and breaking their promises.

 

[Handruin]

Hi H
Which version of Any DVD do you use for ripping UHD? When they changed hands, I stopped the constant upgrades with them, since I really wasn't using them much, and the version I have, 7692, is from 2016.

I'm using the latest version they offer 8.3.4.0. I bought another license after they change to RedFox.

 

[Santilli]

Lifetime or yearly?

 

[Santilli]

I don't rip UHD discs. I haven't gotten a newer version of AnyDVD from when it changed to Redfox. I was skeptical that they wouldn't be shut down again and was not happy about them screwing all the owners and breaking their promises.

Concerned about the same issues.

 

[Handruin]

Lifetime or yearly?

I got the lifetime. If you don't trust using them, look at MakeMKV.

 

[Stereodude]

Concerned about the same issues.

Well, in retrospect I'd say my fears were incorrect. However, I now have hardware BD players, and even a UHD BD player. Additionally there is no open source player that properly plays Blu-ray discs and can use madVR. I'm not trying to rip all my discs to my server, so I've been okay not being able to rip new discs.

 

[sechs]

BluRay is dead.

Long live streaming.

 

[Stereodude]

BluRay is dead.

Long live streaming.

Enjoy your substandard presentation that you don't own and will pay for in perpetuity or as long as the studios deem to allow you to.

 

[Handruin]

I agree. Streaming rarely or never looks as good as a Bluray presentation.

 

[snowhiker]

Enjoy your substandard presentation that you don't own and will pay for in perpetuity or as long as the studios deem to allow you to.

This.

I agree. Streaming rarely or never looks as good as a Bluray presentation.

This again. Of course I had to replace my crappy Panasonic BluRay player, that had annoying sounds glitches, with a Sony.

 

[sechs]

Nonetheless, BluRay is dead.

Like with music, people are "good enough" with streaming their video.

 

[Newtun]

Like with music, people are "good enough" with streaming their video.

That.​

Spoken as an "old fogie" whose eyes and ears are going somewhat fast.

Streaming TV in 4K (+HDR?) may be "good enough" for my vision. And I'm a fan of classic music (jazz, blues, rock (&roll), Motown, hip-hop, etc.), but not classical music, so 95% coverage may be adequate to convey the soul of a song to me.