APC UPS buying time

[The JoJo]

Lightning struck on saturday again, and my computers rebooted. So I think it is now time for me to get a UPS home.

The brand will be APC (easy for me to get), but I'm not quite sure on the modell. It will support my 3 computers. I've been thinking about the 1000va RS or the 800va RS models. Any reasons not to get these?

One Windows XP and 2 linux hosts, any good ways to get all three to shutdown after, say 30s power outage? Anyone used this:
http://eu1.networkupstools.org/ ?

 

[The JoJo]

Hmmm, I'm beginning to think I should get at a minimum the 1000Va unit, or the Back-ups RS 1500Va unit. The wattage might not be enough otherwise.

 

[Fushigi]

I think I'd install the bundled UPS software on the XP box (assuming it's on the same time the Linux boes are). The software should allow the running of an app as part of the power issue trigger. The app can be a simple FTP script that hits both Linux boxes and submits shutdown commands to them. Or otherwise submits a shutdown command.

I suppose you could install the UPS app on one of the Linux boxes instead; I'm just not sure how you'd remotely power off the XP box.

 

[Howell]

I think I'd install the bundled UPS software on the XP box (assuming it's on the same time the Linux boes are). The software should allow the running of an app as part of the power issue trigger. The app can be a simple FTP script that hits both Linux boxes and submits shutdown commands to them. Or otherwise submits a shutdown command.

I suppose you could install the UPS app on one of the Linux boxes instead; I'm just not sure how you'd remotely power off the XP box.

The software on my Opti-Ups recieve these kind of commands over SNMP.

 

[The JoJo]

I think Powerchute comes with the RS series UPSs. Is this functionality present in that program also?

 

[Bookmage]

Depending on ur area and availabitlity, I would consider getting 2 x 900va/500w UPS. Here in the US, Microcenter has an APC/Conext 900va for 60$US. The 1000va APC is normally 150$ and the 1500va is like 200$. One of our APC 1000va just kicked into overload mode and won't kick out. So I picked up 2 x 900va for 60$ each to replace it. I dunno why the 1000va won't kick out of overload mode even after I pull all the plugs and press the reset switch.

Since you're powering 3 computers, make sure the one u pick has that many backedup sockets. U may wanna stick ur monitor on there too.

 

[The JoJo]

The 1000Va is about 260€, the 1500Va is about 330€ and the 800Va is about 170€.

Not many other choices for me at the moment, i.e. any less expensive models/manufacturers.

 

[Fushigi]

The software on my Opti-Ups recieve these kind of commands over SNMP.

So your UPS is network enabled? If so an SNMP broadcast would work once you set up clients on the PCs.

Most consumer-grade UPS systems ship with serial or USB connectors and as such can only be connected to a single host PC. That PC would in turn have to talk to the others to tell them to shut down. Hence my initial post.

Here you can get a Belkin 550W UPS for around $45. At that price point I'll just buy a separate one for each PC. That's what I did for my wife's. My PC, along with my cordless phone base unit, cable modem, router, USB drive, etc. is on an APC BackUPS 1000. Overkill, but at one time both PCs were on it.

My printer is on a 20 year old surge supressor that still works like a charm.

 

[Pradeep]

I have an APC BackUPS XS-1500 (I believe it's identical to an RS-1500 but without the network surge protection). The included software (PowerChute 1.3 IIRC) can certainly run a program upon a power event. What I like most is the alarms can be disabled during certain times of the day - such as sleepytime Gave me around 17 minutes of backup time whilst running a very greedy dual Athlon. Highly recommended, I got mine cheap during a CompUSA event. BTW run-time can be extended with a seperate external battery, if you require.

 

[sechs]

Isn't PowerChute a free download from the APC website?

I'm not familar with the model that you mentioned, but I doubt that it will shut down machines to which it is not directly connected. Models that can do that tend to be a bit more expensive.

I would also suggest a separate UPS for each computer. It will be simpler and, likely, cheaper to do it that way.

 

[The JoJo]

Thanks everyone.

About the 1 to many issue, the Back-ups CS 350Va can be had for about 70€, while the CS 500Va is about 85€. It might be enough to get one 350 and 2*500, which would total about 240€. Then again, I'll end up with a lot more cables and boxes, and I'm not overly thrilled with this idea, yet.

 

[Clocker]

Doesn't XP have built in support for UPSs? I know I had my system automatically shutting down using the XP software as long as the UPS can communicate with the system (either via USB or Parallel) I don't see a need for additional software.

C

 

[Grim]

One Windows XP and 2 linux hosts, any good ways to get all three to shutdown after, say 30s power outage? Anyone used this:
http://eu1.networkupstools.org/ ?

When I have multiple hosts, I have a tendancy to go with multiple UPSes. However, I only do this if, after a value judgement, I decide some hardware is more important than other hardware.

For example, at the moment, I have three UPSes. One for my main system, one for my monitor and dev system, and one for my cable modem, firewall, and VoIP box. The last, incidentally, is the biggest, at 1200va, as I don't want to lose phone service just because there's a power outage.

Second largest uptime is on my UPS for the main system; it lasts 30 min at full load. Admittedly, it'll shut down immediately unless it notices an active Grim on it, and I'd be quick about shutting it down myself. The dev system and monitor only last about five minutes if they're both on, and last power outage, it IPSed, with the dev system dying in a brief power drop. That was two months ago, and I've not gotten it a new battery. (Normally, I don't use the monitor; rather, I use my laptop to ssh in, and the dev system's normally on when I'm around, and not during storms.)

 

[The JoJo]

I'll go for three units, instead of one.

Using one unit only would have satisifed my mind from a "neatness" point of view.

Thanks!

 

[The JoJo]

Hmmm, no wonder the small ones are cheaper, the architecture is "off-line" , compared to "line-interactive" on the RS series.

What do you think about the need for the better architecture?

 

[Fushigi]

I presume they're offline and switch to battery within n milliseconds. As long as n is sufficiently small, it's fine.

Offline is actually better in some ways. Easier on the battery as it's not always in a discharge/charge state. Potentially more efficient as you don't necessarily have to do the double-conversion AC-DC <-> DC-AC. Probably generates less waste heat.

Now if you need really good spike/surge supression as well, then maybe a line-interactive unit would be better. The battery, being a giant capacitor, is really good at smoothing spikes.

 

[Howell]

The software on my Opti-Ups recieve these kind of commands over SNMP.

So your UPS is network enabled? If so an SNMP broadcast would work once you set up clients on the PCs.

Most consumer-grade UPS systems ship with serial or USB connectors and as such can only be connected to a single host PC. That PC would in turn have to talk to the others to tell them to shut down. Hence my initial post.

Here you can get a Belkin 550W UPS for around $45. At that price point I'll just buy a separate one for each PC. That's what I did for my wife's. My PC, along with my cordless phone base unit, cable modem, router, USB drive, etc. is on an APC BackUPS 1000. Overkill, but at one time both PCs were on it.

My printer is on a 20 year old surge supressor that still works like a charm.

My original quote could have been more precise. My UPS is connected to the computer by serial cable and the computer sends the SNMP commands.

As long as the linux box can speak SNMP (and IIRC there is software available to let linux speak to the UPS) then it can shut down the XP computers once the software is installed.

 

[Bozo]

XP has builtin UPS management. A serial cable connects the UPS with the PC. You can set the PC to shutdown after a specific time. You can also have it run a batch file to shutdown other PCs on your network. MS supplies an 'shutdown.exe' file if you search their site. Don't know about Linux

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[Pradeep]

Hmmm, no wonder the small ones are cheaper, the architecture is "off-line" , compared to "line-interactive" on the RS series.

What do you think about the need for the better architecture?

The "line-interactive" AFAIK means it can buck and boost the output voltage without resorting to the battery too much. The off-line's just switch right to the battery. If you don't live next to a large industrial site and have clean power most of tyhe time I wouldn't worry either way. Be aware that line interactive is not the same as an online model, which is constantly running off the battery. I don't think APC make any online models. Online double conversion would be "the best" but they are rather expensive.

 

[The JoJo]

As there normally isn't any problems with the power "quality" here, I'll deffinitely go for the cheaper ones. Thanks again.

 

[Santilli]

Do you really need a UPS?

I bought an APC BackUPS 1000 when I lived in Berkeley. Late at night the lights dimmed on a regular basis, and brown outs were frequent.

Here, about twice a year, the power goes down, but otherwise, no noticeable brown outs.

APC offers a new battery for 120, with shipping and cables, IIRC.
Is it worth doing? I've got the machines plugged into surge suppressors. by APC, and the one machine that isn't has been here 6 years, and it's gone through all the power outages, with no damage. It's usually up 24/7, as well.

Should I just save the money?

Lightning is not a problem...
s

 

[Fushigi]

Last time the battery went in my SmartUPS 1000XL it was going to cost about $179 + s/h. A brand new BackUPS 1000 at Sams Club was $118 so now I've got an APC brand door stop in my basement.

If your power problems are rare, and you think you can survive a power loss when you're working on your most critical app, then you can skip a UPS in favor of a good surge supressor. Otherwise, I consider it cheap insurance.

BTW, what equipment is on the UPS? It could be a $45 550W unit might suffice instead. My wife's PC is on a 550 Belkin that I picked up for ~$45 after rebate; my BackUPS 1000 has my PC (sans monitor) + home phone (base station for 8 cordless handsets) + cable modem + router. In a power failure I'll shut off everything but the phone immediately.

 

[Howell]

I replaced my last UPS battery with a $30 unit from a local electronics supply store. You could always try Batteries Plus. Also look in the phone book. The local one does not appear on their website.

 

[sechs]

Generally, it's more cost effective to buy a replacement UPS than to replace the battery.

APC has a trade-in program.

 

[Santilli]

Options are:
New battery for APC Backups 1000 from APC 120 dollars.
Cheaper company battery, 60 dollars, but they don't answer their phone.
Fry's had 550-500's for about 45 dollars.

Can't make up my mind. Down to the last two...

s

 

[Handruin]

I vote for buying a new one. They're insurance in more ways than one.

 

[P5-133XL]

I've had very good luck with used Ebay APC Smart-UPS's. Even factoring in a replacement battery ($60 Generic) and shipping ($50-$65) it typically costs far less than new and they work just as reliabily.

 

[The JoJo]

Has anyone any experience from Trust (www.trust.com) UPS's?

 

[Clocker]

I just bought a replacement battery for my Connect 900AVR UPS. It's 12v and 15AH. Batteries are batteries if you ask me, paying a premium to APC for their brand name is a waste of money. Afterall, my Connext is just a rebranded APC I bought about 3-4 years ago.

The new UPS battery only cost $32 + tax.

www.batteriesplus.com

I went to their local shop..I've never seen that many batteries before!!

C

 

[time]

I'm still hazy about which APC software does what, and therefore which model I want. I'm looking for what we were able to do with a former local brand called Sola:

Software to run on a server (Linux or Windows) and monitor the UPS via a serial cable. When power interruption is detected, software sends a message to client software on each workstation, which in turn warns the user of imminent server shutdown. The message is repeated twice at two minute intervals, then the workstation is shut down after five minutes. The server shuts down after seven minutes. All of this is configurable.

I'm also wondering whether APC is worth the money we have to pay in this part of the world. The specs on the SmartUPS 750 don't look particularly impressive - reflected in the unit's light weight. Any other big brands that people like?

 

[Howell]

I'm also wondering whether APC is worth the money we have to pay in this part of the world. The specs on the SmartUPS 750 don't look particularly impressive - reflected in the unit's light weight. Any other big brands that people like?

Opti-ups. I in fact have 3. 650ES, 500PS and 1100PS.