ATi vs. nVidia in Linux

[Adcadet]

Hey all -
I'm spec'ing out a new box, and wondering if my assumption that nVidia cards are betters supported in Linux is true. I think I remember that nVidia has provided Linux drivers for longer than ATi. In my new computer I'll be running Linux at least part-time and very much want dual monitors running (one LCD, one CRT). Should I be leaning heavily towards one chipset over another?

 

[i]

Note: I didn't start looking into Linux graphics capabilities in any sort of detailed way until this summer. Prior to that I was usually happy with one monitor working at a standard resolution, using any bland 8-year-old analog video card with a DB15 RGB connector. As a result, any useful experience I might claim to have is probably limited to just 6 months or so. All I can do really is list some thoughts.

You have two categories of video drivers ... open-source drivers, and closed-source drivers. No surprise there.

For ATI cards under Linux you've only got the open-source option. So far as I know, ATI has not yet released a Linux-based driver for any of its graphics cards. (Maybe that's changed?) For NVidia cards you have the choice of either the open-source driver ("nv"), or the closed source driver ("nvidia") that NVidia offers on their website.

For the ATI open-source driver, running "man ati" and "man radeon" indicates that dual head configurations are possible, but there is no rotation support. For the NVidia open-source driver, running "man nv" makes no mention of dual head configurations (other than the fact that you can select one of two outputs), but rotation is supported. However, when you enable the rotation option with the "nv" driver, you switch to an unaccelerated mode.

I can't tell you much about the closed-source "nvidia" driver other than I used it once this summer at work for a unique PCI-based video card. It was hard -- really hard -- to get installed. It did work though, and it provided a lot of options well beyond anything the free "nv" driver had. Dual-head support might have been one of them ... I can't remember.

With my computers I continue to stick with the ATI-or-Nvidia $50-or-less video card options and use the free open-source drivers. My experience with the proprietary Nvidia driver this summer reinforced my personal belief that it's better to go with the open source drivers as packaged by whatever distribution you're using. It's easier to get up and running that way.

Adcadet, have you heard anything about Matrox cards running under Linux? There was a very recent Slashdot discussion about something tangential, and a few people had some very nice words about Matrox and their support for Linux. It was so unusual to hear that sort of support that it stuck in my mind. And now I can't find the Slashdot discussion of course...

 

[i]

Woohoo ... I posted too soon! I found the discussion!

Note that it's a side conversation in a discussion titled, "Root Exploit For NVIDIA Closed-Source Linux Driver".

(Yikes. Have I mentioned that, regardless of manufacturer, I prefer the open-source video drivers? )

The open-source Matrox driver name is "mga", so running "man mga" should introduce you to all the juicy details of what it can do. Here's an excerpt regarding multi-head setups:

The second head of dual-head cards is supported for the G450 and G550. Support for the second head on G400 cards requires a binary-only "mga_hal" module that is available from Matrox, and may be on the CD supplied with the card. That module also provides various other enhancements, and may be necessary to use the DVI (digital) output on the G550 (and other cards).

So true dual-head support for Matrox using open-source drivers looks a bit kludgy for now. I have no doubt that will improve.

Evidently "mga" also supports rotation, but not via the RandR extension (which is what you need if you want to "rotate on demand" via a GUI control under X). You can only apply screen rotation by changing the xorg.conf file (i.e. you'd have to restart X to change any rotation setup). Enabling rotation also removes acceleration (not that I've ever found that to be a problem for what I do with my rotatable monitor).

By the way, if you want a list of all the open-source video card drivers that are included with your particular Xorg/X11 installation, check under the "SEE ALSO" section when you run the command, "man xorg".

 

[CityK]

For ATI:

• fglrx is the proprietary ATI 3D X driver ... binary blob
• radeon is the opensource 3D X driver from xorg
• A good source of user info for both of them is on the Rage3D Linux Driver board
• I'm not cetain of the dual head status with ATI binary.
• ATI releases a new blob monthly now
• I do know that it lacks XvMC, and that its Xv has been buggy in recent drivers
• There is an unofficial wiki for the ATI binary blob drivers ... the supported hardware list looks suspicious -- I thought I just read that ATI dropped a number of cards in latest releases ... as well, I know it took them ages to get support into their driver for the latest X1xxx cards.

For Nvidia:

• nvidia is the proprietary Nvidia 3D X driver ... binary blob
• nvnews is the place to be for nvidia driver discussion ... you'll find plenty of info/discussion on dual head setups
• nv is the supposedly "opensource" 2D X driver .... truth of the matter is that its heavily obfuscated
• nouveau is a opensource 3D X driver ... I've been tracking its progress for a while now. Currently nothing ready for public consumption. But its developers have been making steady progress. My guess is that its probably about 6~12 away from being a viable solution for most Nv cards
• You can read about their dual head plans in this very latest edition of the TiNDC

For completenes, I'll mention that for SiS based graphics you want to go here .... for completeness, I'll also mention that you want to avoid SiS based solutions in Linux like they were the plague ... although I will also mention that the experience did teach me a number of things too.

For Via, the driver situation is more then a little fractured. Personally, I recommend you either stick with the Xorg supplied driver, or go for the bleeding edge stuff from openChrome. Anyway, this should help clear the mess up a bit .... currently, the only Via graphics really worth a damn are the CN400 based chipsets....I hold out a bit of faith that the forthcoming CX700M chipset might actually be interesting and not a crippled piece of crap like the CN700 turned out to be.

For Intel ... ummm, no Linux experience with them yet. I'm actually thinking about getting a Centrino Pro/Santa Rosa based laptop in the spring. The graphics system on that platform is supposed to be greatly improved over previous Intel IGPs.

And speaking about the graphics market in general, here's an interesting read

 

[CityK]

I should also add that

- nvidia release blobs about 4-5 times a year - example: release in May, followed 4-5 weeks later by a bug fix release ... nothing for another 4 months, followed in 4-5 weeks with a bug release ...nothing for another 4 months......

- I'm not certain why i had difficulty with the nvidia install. Its really easy in my opinion, ALBEIT, there are some things that you absolutely most do:

• get out of X ... i.e. init 3
• log in as root
• remove any currently loaded nvidia module ... rmmod nvidia
• unistall the previous nvidia driver ... nvidia-installer --uninstall
• actually, I can't remember if the new installer will do that last step automatically, but I like to do it myself nonetheless
• install the new blob .... /path_to_whereever_u_saved_the blob/sh NVIDIA......-pkg2.run -q
• if you have previously run the nvidia driver, just restart X ... if not, config your xorg.conf file for the nvidia driver. Then restart X.
  
  - choice of ATI vs Nvidia can also be affected by your hardware platform in some cases. For example, for PPC, nvidia don't support it, so your only left with 2D until the neuveau drivers come to town. Conversely, with ATI, the radeon drivers will bring you DRI and all its goodness.

 

[CityK]

I'm not certain why i had difficulty with the nvidia install. Its really easy in my opinion, ALBEIT, there are some things that you absolutely most do:

• get out of X ... i.e. init 3
• log in as root
• remove any currently loaded nvidia module ... rmmod nvidia
• unistall the previous nvidia driver ... nvidia-installer --uninstall
• actually, I can't remember if the new installer will do that last step automatically, but I like to do it myself nonetheless
• install the new blob .... /path_to_whereever_u_saved_the blob/sh NVIDIA......-pkg2.run -q
• if you have previously run the nvidia driver, just restart X ... if not, config your xorg.conf file for the nvidia driver. Then restart X.

Hit submit instead of preview by mistake ... and I can't find an edit button.

 

[CityK]

Ah crap ... forgot to add, the next time you update the kernel, you will have to redo the nvidia driver ... I usually switch xorg.conf back to the nv driver before I restart after a kernel upgrade ... additional monkey steps yes, but not particularly painful.

 

[Adcadet]

I've struggled to get my current ATi Radeon working in Linux (Ubuntu) in dual head mode. If I had to, I could do it again, but it would take me at least an hour or two. Maybe more. For my next computer I want a video card that will just work with Linux with minimal hassle. I'm happy to install drivers, tweak an xorg.conf file, whatever, as long as it's relatively straight forward. So - which is easy to get going in dual head mode - nVidia or ATi? I'm leaning towads nVidia since my ATi experience was mixed, and it seems they have a better priceerformance ratio right now.

 

[Sol]

I found getting ATI drivers doing what I wanted (Running on a TV as the primary monitor) was far easier in KDE than in Gnome (or the .conf file) you might find that playing around with the various GUI config tools allows you to get setup much uicker and then you can just switch to whatever you want to use and keep your .conf file...

Beyond that all I can say is that I've had about the same level of difficulty getting video drivers from nvidia and ati going in Ubuntu, but I haven't tried dual head specifically so I can't really comment on that.

My laptops x1400 detected and ran fine in proper widescreen resolution right away once I installed fglrx though.