BMW 335i

[e_dawg]

Just wanted to say that this car is amazing. Test drove it (the sedan) a couple weeks ago and compared it against the 328i and the Infiniti G35 sedan. Handles perfectly, rides smoothly, steers telepathically, and pulls like a freight train in any gear at any speed. What a marvelous car.

 

[Handruin]

If you have the chance and curiosity, give the 07 Acura TL Type S a spin (rated at 286HP under new revision of the SAE NET...it was 300HP prior to the new rating). I just picked one up over the holidays and I'm super happy with it. It's a FWD so it won't be exactly the same as a well placed RWD system, but I see enough snow up here and drive enough miles that I don't want to bother with RWD just yet. The BMW 335i and TL-S are close in 0-60 if you get the 6MT (which I did) and for the $8K+ in savings for similarly equipped you get a few more options. I didn't drive the 335i because it's price was far too high for what it offers, but I bet it's a great handling/performing car as you've experienced.

 

[e_dawg]

Oh, I know the Acura TL-S and Infiniti G35 offer better value than the BMW 3-series. That is why I am considering the G35. But there is something about the way the 3-series drives that is so compelling. On paper, the BMW is not as good for the price. But when you're behind the wheel, there is a certain magic that really speaks to me and makes it worth the inferior value and price differential.

As for the Acura TL-S, it was actually at the top of my list for some time (along with the BMW 325i and the G35). However, a couple good friends of mine whose automotive opinions I really respect did not have favourable impressions of it. A common complaint from them was torque steer. I have a FWD car at the moment: a Jetta VR6. Even with only ~180 hp and ~190 lb-ft of torque, the front wheels tug and pull and hop under hard acceleration all the time. It drives me nuts. Add to that the sloppy handling and inside wheel spin when accelerating out of corners, and I am sick of FWD for the time being.

I know the TL will be much better than the Jetta at compensating for the disadvantages of the FWD layout, but right now I just want a RWD super handling / performing car before it's time to start a family and get all practical and make purchasing decisions based on value and utility.

 

[e_dawg]

Handy,

Was it you that had the TSX before? If so, congrats on the TL-S. Despite my own reservations about it these days, I do think it is a fantasitc car for a lot of people and was seriously considering purchasing one as recently as last summer.

 

[Handruin]

I read the same things regarding the torque steer prior to buying it and I even test drove it 4 times before deciding on it. It's there I won't deny it, but it hasn't been an issue for me. You certainly have to be awake if you decide to give it some gas in 1st gear though...no question there. The FWD nature is at its limit in this car given it has the RL's 3.5. The next step has to be SH-AWD for the TL to continue to compete.

I made some long hard thoughts about it and made the realization that I wasn't ever going to take it on a track and the rest fell into place. The power is available in any gear I give it and most of the time I spend with spirited driving is beyond 1st and 2nd gear anyways. I've yet to "seriously" accelerate in 1st but I suspect it might hop a bit. The helical LSD should help a bit, but I know it won't get enough tracking because I've had the wheels spin a bit in 2nd on drive pavement. I gave the driver of a newer model mustang a large surprise the other day when he tried to rocket past me on the highway after tailing me. He tried twice and couldn't do it until I let off. As he passed he had the strangest expression on his face. I was fully waiting for "the finger" but he never gave it. Being able to drop it into 4th at 80 and have that much pull was really amazing to me.

With that all said and done, I'd prefer RWD for a true car experience...that's what a performing car should have, but I don't want to deal with it in the winter. If you don't mind the added hassle, then I'd say go for it. The G35 is also a very nice car. I was much considering its counterpart, the 350Z. I wanted a more-serious track car but came to the conclusion that I would never really utilize it.

 

[Handruin]

Handy,

Was it you that had the TSX before? If so, congrats on the TL-S. Despite my own reservations about it these days, I do think it is a fantasitc car for a lot of people and was seriously considering purchasing one as recently as last summer.

yes, I traded the TSX in with 75,000 miles (120,700.8 kilometers) in a little over 3 years. I had no problems with it and would recommend it to anyone.

I know it isn't performance related, but the ELS 5.1 DVD-Audio sounds really good in the TL-S.

 

[timwhit]

The BMW might drive really nicely, but I just wouldn't trust the reliability. I have friends who drive Audis and BMWs and those things are in the shop constantly. The repairs are also much more than on a standard American or Japanese car.

Let us know if it holds up, if you get it.

 

[LunarMist]

Just wanted to say that this car is amazing. Test drove it (the sedan) a couple weeks ago and compared it against the 328i and the Infiniti G35 sedan. Handles perfectly, rides smoothly, steers telepathically, and pulls like a freight train in any gear at any speed. What a marvelous car.

Yet it is still a little car. I don't how people can stand to be in such a confined space.

 

[e_dawg]

Yet it is still a little car. I don't how people can stand to be in such a confined space.

It depends on your viewpoint. In the rest of the world, a 3-series is a family car, and is not considered small. Only in the US (and Canada to a lesser extent) do you have such a prevalence of large vehicles. Having said that, I do find the back seats cramped and wouldn't want to subject adult passengers to that environment for too long. The front is no problem, though.

The BMW might drive really nicely, but I just wouldn't trust the reliability. I have friends who drive Audis and BMWs and those things are in the shop constantly. The repairs are also much more than on a standard American or Japanese car.

True, it is not as reliable as a Toyota or Honda, for example, and the repairs are expensive, but that is the price you pay for a sublime driving experience. Total Cost of Ownership (TCO), as with computer equipment, is one of those things that you need to know going in and have to be comfortable with before you purchase.

 

[ddrueding]

Yet it is still a little car. I don't how people can stand to be in such a confined space.

I don't understand this perspective. My car is much smaller than any of these, and it's plenty big enough.

People who "need" bigger cars without any justification are one of the reasons Americans and the butt of jokes everywhere else.

 

[LunarMist]

I don't have any family for my vehicle, but don't like to be cramped. I have lived on several continents and had a BMW 7 in Europe back in the day. Different cars are practical in different circumstances. For example, my average weekly speed is about 20 MPH, so I'm no longer interested in the performance cars.

BTW, I only consume about 350 gallons of gas per year and as a non-breeder do not contribute to the future destruction. So gimme a break.

 

[ddrueding]

Lunar, you can have all the breaks you want. I'm a pretty strict capitalist. So long as you can afford to fuel your 7-series when gas exceeds $10/gal, you have my blessing.

Me? At 1000+/week, most of it over 100mph, car selection has many more variables.

 

[LunarMist]

Me? At 1000+/week, most of it over 100mph, car selection has many more variables.

Where do you live that you can drive 100MPH - in the US or abroad? Around here reckless driving can be a felony and especially if other factors involved.

 

[fb]

Me? At 1000+/week, most of it over 100mph, car selection has many more variables.

A diesel would be perfect for you, but I understand that they aren't very popular in the USA... Anyway, the BMW 530d for example can travel down the Autobahn at 250km/h without breaking a sweat. And under normal circumstances it uses less fuel then their smallest gasoline engine.

 

[ddrueding]

Where do you live that you can drive 100MPH - in the US or abroad? Around here reckless driving can be a felony and especially if other factors involved.

At one point I had my license revoked, I'm aware of the consequences
But the benefits are too tempting; I'm saving nearly an hour a day vs. 70mph. This discussion has been had somewhere around here; but I do feel that it is safe to do what I do.

A diesel would be perfect for you, but I understand that they aren't very popular in the USA... Anyway, the BMW 530d for example can travel down the Autobahn at 250km/h without breaking a sweat. And under normal circumstances it uses less fuel then their smallest gasoline engine.

I know I don't need any more power than I already have (~140hp); primarily I need better gear ratios. I actually hit redline at about 130mph, and my standard cruising speed puts the engine around 4800rpm. That's what I need to fix.

 

[fb]

OK, I see. But it shouldn't be a problem finding a shop that can change the final gear ratio, or would you rather only put in a longer 5:gear? I don't know if it would really make a difference in any way though... Your car isn't going to be very quiet in these speeds and I don't think you will save any fuel either since the engine will have to work almost as hard to over win the air resistance even if the revs are a bit lower.

That's my theory anyway, but I'm not a car expert...

 

[ddrueding]

OK, I see. But it shouldn't be a problem finding a shop that can change the final gear ratio, or would you rather only put in a longer 5:gear? I don't know if it would really make a difference in any way though... Your car isn't going to be very quiet in these speeds and I don't think you will save any fuel either since the engine will have to work almost as hard to over win the air resistance even if the revs are a bit lower.

That's my theory anyway, but I'm not a car expert...

Interesting thoughts. I was actually looking at changing the final drive, but just changing 5th is a nice idea. In a perfect world, I would take the 6-speed out of a GTI and stick it in, but I suspect that is out of my price range.

Getting better mileage is a nice idea, but I was primarily concerned with destroying my engine. I just had it rebuilt in December (8,000+ miles ago).

 

[Stereodude]

Gotta love those VW's...

 

[e_dawg]

I know I don't need any more power than I already have (~140hp); primarily I need better gear ratios. I actually hit redline at about 130mph, and my standard cruising speed puts the engine around 4800rpm. That's what I need to fix.

Double D,

Changing the gear ratio is an excellent idea on paper; I don't know how practical or feasible it is, though. I don't know if you could change 5th by itself, but changing the final drive is usually what's done. Changing from your monstrous 4.24:1 to 3.62:1 (TDI automatic) or 3.39:1 (TDI manual) would really reduce your rpm's (by 15% and 20%, respectively). However, your torque would be reduced by an equivalent amount... and that's a lot of torque to sacrifice. Also, it would incur a significant expense -- $700-900 is a ballpark number I heard a while back.

I just had an idea, though. When it's time to get new tires, you could change your tires to a lower profile tire without increasing the size of your rims. This reduces the overall diameter, but more importantly, the effective gear ratio of your car. It accomplishes the same thing as changing the final drive ratio, but will introduce speedometer error. In this case, your speedo would show a lower speed than what you're going at. No problem, as long as you don't mind reminding yourself to do the appropriate adjustment in your head when checking your speed.

And the benefit is that you don't really have to spend any extra money if you need to get new tires anyways. Even if you don't have to get new tires yet, the cost would be about $270 ($60 per tire + $30 installation). Another benefit is that you don't have to select a gear ratio that is so much lower than yours. A 7.5% reduction is just about perfect.

To wit:

By simply changing your tires from 195/65-15 to 205/50-15, you will be able to reduce your engine speed by 7.6% for a given speed. So, if your usual cruising speed necessitates 4800 rpm, this change will allow your engine to spin at 4430 rpm, a net reduction of almost 400 rpm.

So what are the compromises here? You would lose 7.6% effective torque, and your speedometer would be -7.6% off. So, at 100 mph on your speedo, you would actually be going 108 mph. Then again, most cars' speedos err on the side of caution and tell you that you're going a couple percent faster than you really are, so the actual error would be around 5%. I can live with that.

The other drawback here is that the load rating of your tires would decrease due to the smaller volume of air between the tire and the rim. The load rating would change from the 89 typical of 195/65-15 tires to the 86 typical of 205/50-15 tires, a reduction of about 10% when you look up the actual loads in pounds. What this means in the real world is that you have to be careful not to load your car up to the gills in passengers and cargo and keep your tire pressures to what VW recommends for full load + high speed conditions (usually specified in your driver's side door panel, the gas tank flap, or the owner's manual). It would not pose a safety problem IMO.

 

[ddrueding]

e_dawg,

That is another idea I have been playing with, but I think you have it slightly wrong. If I were to increase the size of my tires, that would increase it's circumference, making me cover more distance for each revolution. So what I really want to do is get larger tires. I currently have 225/45-17s, so by going to 225/50 or 225/55 -17" it would have the desired effect. No?

 

[e_dawg]

Oh wow, what a senior moment

Yep, you're right, Double D.

For an 8% difference, you want 235/55-17
rpm's go from 4800 to 4411
Best tire choices = Pirelli PZero Nero M+S*, Kumho ECSTA SPT

For a 7% difference, you want 225/55-17
rpm's go from 4800 to 4482
Best tire choices = Bridgestone Turanza LS-V*, Kumho ECSTA ASX

* -- Preferred because they are rated as quieter tires, which is important for extended high-speed commuting. The wind noise and road noise/drone of the tires can be fatiguing and bothersome over time. At least you'll have the road noise covered. Not to mention, they also top all other category ratings and are a good price as well.

 

[ddrueding]

Oh wow, what a senior moment

Yep, you're right, Double D.

For an 8% difference, you want 235/55-17
rpm's go from 4800 to 4411
Best tire choices = Pirelli PZero Nero M+S*, Kumho ECSTA SPT

For a 7% difference, you want 225/55-17
rpm's go from 4800 to 4482
Best tire choices = Bridgestone Turanza LS-V*, Kumho ECSTA ASX

* -- Preferred because they are rated as quieter tires, which is important for extended high-speed commuting. The wind noise and road noise/drone of the tires can be fatiguing and bothersome over time. At least you'll have the road noise covered. Not to mention, they also top all other category ratings and are a good price as well.

Happens to me far more than my age can justify

I currently run Pirelli PZero Nero M+S and am very satisfied. I just wish I could find something a bit quieter. Tire noise is significantly more than engine and wind at these speeds.

 

[ddrueding]

I got to drive a friend's 335i sedan today, an absolute blast. I have my eyes on the 135i that the US should be getting next year.

 

[Pradeep]

Happens to me far more than my age can justify

I currently run Pirelli PZero Nero M+S and am very satisfied. I just wish I could find something a bit quieter. Tire noise is significantly more than engine and wind at these speeds.

Why run a mud and snow tire? At the speeds you are going a high performance summer tire would seem the best for noise control. Do you ever get any snow out that way?

 

[Pradeep]

I got to drive a friend's 335i sedan today, an absolute blast. I have my eyes on the 135i that the US should be getting next year.

300 HP in a car that light should be fun indeed. For $33,000 that's insane value in any brand, let alone a BMW. Once the kids leave the nest....

 

[Stereodude]

Why run a mud and snow tire? At the speeds you are going a high performance summer tire would seem the best for noise control. Do you ever get any snow out that way?

It's not a mud and snow tire. It's a proper all season. True all seasons should be M&S rated. However, most of the highest performance all season tires lack this rating.

 

[ddrueding]

No snow, but I drive off-road most days. Light-heavy mud is a regular occurance. I've never gotten stuck, but I've had trucks around be get bogged down.

 

[e_dawg]

Why run a mud and snow tire? At the speeds you are going a high performance summer tire would seem the best for noise control. Do you ever get any snow out that way?

IMo, there are many reasons to run an all-season (many of which, including the PZero Nero that dd had, are M+S rated). One of them is that they are designed to be quieter than HP summer tires. Another reason is that they last much longer. These two reasons are very compelling for a long-d commuter like dd. I would only get HP summer tires if you are anal about handling and don't drive ridiculous distances.

 

[e_dawg]

Wasn't able to swing the 335i, but I traded in the Jetta and got a 328i. Very nice car. Wonderful handling and the engine still rocks, despite having almost 100 HP less than the 335i. Still getting used to the clutch and gearbox, as it's different enough than the Jetta that it's not quite smooth yet.

 

[ddrueding]

I think the automatic transmissions are getting there. I still like manual for the fun factor on a twisty road, but the automatics in BMW, Merc, Audi, hell even VW; just aren't the performance leeches they used to be.

 

[Clocker]

I agree with that. Automatics are so much better now than they used to be. With my mostly city driving I will take a 5 or 6 speed automatic over any manual any day

Those in the market for a new sporty sedan should at least look at the new generation 2008 CTS. It's a great vehicle in my totally biased opinion. I can't wait for one of our leases to expire so we can get one. The AWD, 40GB HDD/MP3/NAV system and the real attention to detail on the interior in general (like piped and spot recessed led lighting that accents key areas at night) are really nice.

http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/model/gallery.jsp?model=cts&year=2008