BMW Z4, like it or not?

BMW Z4, like it or not?

  • Like the car's advertized performances/handling and the styling too.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Like the car's advertized performances/handling, but hate the styling too.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Like the styling, but got a gripe against something else about it (little cargo space, 2 seater only

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Don't like the car, period.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • First time I hear about/ don't care much about it.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

CougTek

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bmw-z4-frt1s.jpg

bmw-z4-sides.jpg

I rarely droll for a car, but the Z4 definetly felt in my eye. The 3.0i version is supposed to almost equal a Porsche Boxter's road handling/fun, while costing less. The exterior design repeal many (generally old) automobile chroniclers*, but I really like it.

Now if I can just find the 40K U$ to buy one... Still more affordable than Supercaff's M5.


* babelfish result, not sure if it's ok or not. I meant to describe the people who earn their lives by writing about cars. Those writing in magazines like Car&Drivers for instance (no, it isn't my favorite).
 

Buck

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I don't mean to rain on your parade Coug, but I'm not a big fan of BMW, although I like the M Coupe. Even though the Z3 is the convertable version of the M Coupe, the look is much different. The hard top on the M Coupe really emphasizes the length of the front hood, which, for me, makes for a sexy and sleek design. The Z4 looks like an American got a hold of a German design and stuffed things up, in my opinion.
 

Cliptin

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I think it look allright but this is the first time I've seen it. It's amazing how tastes in car styling vary. I dislike very long hoods like the Corvette. I've found I like fender flares and high (off the ground) trunk lids.

Honestly, I like an all electric four wheel drive.
 

Handruin

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I've read that the design of this vehicle has been under scrutiny from all major magazines and car zealots.

I personally enjoy the risk BMW has made into a more explicit body style in this car. Every BMW in the past has been very conservative and identical in style, except for the Z8. This new version strikes some similarity to the Nissan 350Z in the back and also has the hood length of a jaguar. The overall side style slightly resembles that of a Porsche 911 cabriolet.

I don't find the specs of the car to be incredibly impressive, but surely not lacking. This is a 3000 lb convertible with 225 hp (214 lb torque @3500), I would guestimate a 0-60 MPH in roughly 6 seconds.

If it were a convertible that is desired, I would probably choose the Honda S2000. I'm slightly biased being a Honda fan, but I love the characteristics of the car, and it is cheaper then the BMW at $32,600.

photo_04_large.jpg


If you required more power over and above the 240 HP, you could spend some of the $8000 saved from the BMW and put it towards a comptech supercharger adding 90-100 horsepower at the rear wheels!

lg_441500_installed.jpg


OK, sorry for butting into your thread. :)
 

SteveC

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I like it, but after having a 2-seater with a very small trunk (Mazda RX-7), I wouldn't get another one unless it was a second car. It's such a hastle if I ever want to carry something in my car that's bigger than a duffel bag.
 

CougTek

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Handruin said:
I would guestimate a 0-60 MPH in roughly 6 seconds.
5.8 seconds. Top speed electronicaly limited at 155Mph (250Km/h).

The chroniclers of Automobile magazine liked its road behavior better than the Honda S2000. It is kind of normal since the Z4 is both pricier and a newer design. The main difference between both is that the S2000 needs to rev very high before you feel the power (beyond 5000rpm), while the BMW's 6 in line gives plenty at only 3000-3500rpm.

I guess it depends how you drive.
 

Prof.Wizard

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The Honda is very very good.
But I'll never EVER buy a car if not made by a German manufacturer. Germans make the best cars by far.

So I guess I'll most probably always own an Audi, or BMW, or Mercedes-Benz, or Opel, or... Porsche... :wink:
 

Cliptin

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Prof.Wizard said:
The Honda is very very good.
But I'll never EVER buy a car if not made by a German manufacturer. Germans make the best cars by far.

So I guess I'll most probably always own an Audi, or BMW, or Mercedes-Benz, or Opel, or... Porsche... :wink:

Or VW.
 

Buck

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Tea said:
Or, if you are realy lucky, a Trabant.

:rofl:

That two-stroke East German wonder-wagon is even useless as a generator or a lawnmower. You could improve the performance by removing that ancient motor and putting in its place a wiper motor from a Mercedes.
 

Handruin

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Cliptin said:
Prof.Wizard said:
The Honda is very very good.
But I'll never EVER buy a car if not made by a German manufacturer. Germans make the best cars by far.

So I guess I'll most probably always own an Audi, or BMW, or Mercedes-Benz, or Opel, or... Porsche... :wink:

Or VW.

Same as audi
 

NRG = mc²

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West German, Tea.

Nah, don't like it. S2000 is nicer but the front end looks too typical Japanese-ey. I've heard of a 320hp 3 litre straight 6 S2000R version coming next year on the net but thats probably BS.

I'd love a used TVR Cerbera though, even if it falls apart and leaks when it rains.

This is the new version which isn't as nice as the old one

http://www.supercars.net/PicFetch?pic=2000_tvr_cerbera_45-2.jpg

http://www.supercars.net/PicFetch?pic=2000_tvr_cerbera_45-1.jpg

http://www.supercars.net/PicFetch?pic=2000_tvr_cerbera_42-2.jpg

Ahh, heres David Beckham's one for sale:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1846354900

Did you see that? Its done a handfull of miles and needs a new Catalytic convertor. Typical TVR, but I still like them!
 

Prof.Wizard

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I have a photo of myself this summer with a Trabant in Budapest. 8)
Really nicey piece of shit.

Sorry about forgetting Volkswagen. I remembered to add Opel and forgot to say about VW, currently the biggest manufacturer in Germany.

Personally I love Audis. They are THA top cars!

And yes: Germans make the best cars.
 

Prof.Wizard

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Buck said:
That two-stroke East German wonder-wagon is even useless as a generator or a lawnmower. You could improve the performance by removing that ancient motor and putting in its place a wiper motor from a Mercedes.
You know it is funny, but on my way to Budapest International Airport I saw a Trabant which had the 3-arrows Mercedes emblem on its engine compartment...
Some crazy Hungarian fulfilled his long dream of owning a Benz... muahahahhaa! :mrgrn:
 

Prof.Wizard

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Best ALL-AROUND:
luxurious, safe, quiet, reliable, fast.

They take you to your destination like a darn car should always do.
 

Handruin

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Prof.Wizard said:
Best ALL-AROUND:
luxurious, safe, quiet, reliable, fast.

They take you to your destination like a darn car should always do.

And not very affordable in this part of the world, that is where defining them as best stops for me. :)

I find you can get close to the same with Honda, and that is why I enjoy their cars. (I'm not saying the S2000 is affordable, but their other cars are)
 

Buck

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German’s do make some very good automobiles (you may expect that I’m biased due to my background, but my statement is based on my experience as an automotive mechanic). However, they have always had their quirks, and as of late (that past 5+ years), their idiosyncrasy has been electrical woes. Granted, the M-Class Mercedes is the best example of this, yet other models should not be compared to it. Nonetheless, seeing a new BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc. going down the highway with only two out of three stoplights working, or one taillight out, is infuriating. My next quibble with many well-known German cars is their price. Hence, I find it impractical to purchase a new S-Class Mercedes, or even an E-Class when you can buy a reliable, comfortable Toyota Avalon for much less. Thus, I’m resigned to purchasing older cars from Mercedes or newer cars from Volkswagen, or perhaps a Japanese automaker. At present, my 1982 Mercedes Benz 300D will do just fine. As soon as I replace the door seals, I’ll be ready for the rainy season (the rear and front windscreen seals were just replaced). After that it will be time to replace the front and rear wheel bearings, but that should be easy.
 

Tannin

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I'm sure I've said this before, and I daresay they have improved a bit over the years, but the one-and-a-half German cars I have owned were both a weird mixture of the excellent and the ridiculous. I'm not in a great hurry to have another one of them.

Take my VW Golf. In those days, it was considered possible to to make a small, fuel-efficient engine that had good low-down grunt, or a small, fuel-efficient engine that had nice top-end get up and go, but not both. You could have a powerful, revvy little thing that was gutless off the line and needed to be rowed along with the gearstick, or you could have a high-torque design that was very drivable untill you poured some revs on and nothing happened. The combination was impossible - except that Herr Volkswagen said "Acch, this iz not so difficult, I build one by Tuesday".

In those days it was considered impossible to make a front-wheel-drive car that went around corners in an acceptable manner, but Herr Volkswagen said "Acch, this is simple task for German engineering" and built that too. In the days when most cars used to rust out, wear out, and generally fall apart, Herr Volkswagen made one that didn't.

Figuring out how to get a big space inside a small body without making the whole thing too flimsy, that was another very challenging task that the Germans managed with ease. So far so good. On the difficult things, my first German car was amazingly competent. But on the easy things .... of dear.

When you got down to the minor stuff, the Golf was astonishingly badly designed. Making quarter-vent window mounts that worked properly, for example: Herr Volkswagen said "Acch, this iz too difficult! People in other countries have only been making practical quarter vent windows for 30 years, we cannot do zis". And so the quarter vents fell out after six months of Aussie sunshine because the idiots glued them to the mounting brackets, and used a glue that was neither strong nor durable. (People have known about making quality epoxys since about 1930.)

The layout of the controls and instruments was appalling. The little odds-and-ends things were scattered around at random, you couldn't see the speedo needle without moving either your head or your hand away from the natural position, the headlight switch was hard to find, stuff like that. Mercifully, I've forgotten most of the details now, but that car used to anoy me with little stupid things every time I drove it. It was absolutely infuriating to see such a wonderful little car ruined by an inability to do things that the much-despised Japanese could do in their sleep, and even the Australians could get right.

My second German car is a bitza: designed in Germany, Australian engine, built (I think) in Spain, but the now-usual GM mix of parts from everywhere. Still counts as German, I guess, as that is where they claim the design was done - and I have every reason to believe them, as it bears all the same hallmarks of genius and stupidity that Herr Volkswagen showed me back in the Eighties.

OK, the dynamics are terrible, but I don't blame them for that: they just didn't want to spend the money, and didn't figure it would ever get used outside of city traffic. But that tiny 1.3 litre motor is superb, the transmission is sweet, the space efficiency is awesome, and the fuel efficiency is so good it's laughable. All the hard stuff (bar high-speed dynamics) done with every appearance of ease.

But once again, the easy stuff - stuff I could do myself, given a Tuesday afternoon free and a pencil - they mess up. The position of the steering wheel relative to the seat and the pedals is wrong (the Golf was the same). The digital clock can't show proper hours, only those horrible damn 24 things. You can't see what speed you are doing without moving your hand. There is no courtesy light on the glove-box. The headlight dipper is badly placed and counter-intuitive, the indicators are on the wrong side (which, in my view, ought to be illegal), and so on.

Next time, if I have any sense, I'll buy Japanese.
 

Buck

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Volkswagen always had a problem with balance, and to some extent, I think they still do. They’ll make a car that performs like a bee looking for nectar, but put oversized switches in the oddest place for things as simple as the rear-window defroster. On the flip side, they were good at producing woefully (read 1.3 liter air-cooled) underpowered vehicles with controls in the easiest to find places, and very few of them to begin with. Today, they’re doing an excellent job with performance, comfort, reliability (compared to their recent past), and an above average job of placing controls. I think the Passat is a good example of this.

Now, in my opinion, Mercedes had this combination of performance and the placement of controls conquered in the late 60s to early 80s. One of my favorites was the 108-body style (1967-1973 280SE, 280SEL). It’s true, the add on air conditioner left one in want, but the other controls were easy to find and most of the common ones were within finger distance when your hands were on the steering wheel. Light-horn, high-beam, wiper, and blink control on easily distinguishable and accessible with a couple of your fingers moving on one control stick. Automatic would be on the column, or standard on the floor. All four power window controls in one spot with integrated child-safety button for the rear. The light switch was (and still is) easy. The vent windows worked like a champ, and the driver’s side fresh-air vent always had air passing to it. There was a manual lever to open and close it. The heater levers were very straight forward, and simple to operate (albeit the worst design they had in the way of reliability. Those rubber levers broke often, and replacement was a pain. Out came the radio, glove box, center speaker, and lever faceplate. After a few scrapes and 45 minutes, the heater/fresh-air lever assembly came out. Remove and replace levers, and re-assemble.), even the washer mechanism for the windscreen was easy (it was a foot operated pedal). The best performer-to-weight ratio was the 280SE 4.5. That 289-cubic inch engine still amazes me today.

Now, the 123 car (1974-1984 300D, 300TD, 240E) is great too. The heating/air-conditioning/fresh-air console greatly improved and became integrated. Temperature is control by one wheel, and the ventilation system is routed through the use of 4 buttons. Fan speed is either high, low, or automatic (which allows for more variety in speed). Granted, the diesel versions won’t perform like a Golf or GTI, but the 240E with a dual-overhead cam straight-six will give them a run for their money while pushing 4,000 pounds of mass (this car was used for rally-racing along with the previously mentioned 280SE). The biggest difference is that Mercedes went late into the game with rack-and-pinion steering. So, instead of the agile Polo/Golf, you have a slower responding ball-and-knuckle steering box with the Mercedes.
 

NRG = mc²

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Today, they’re doing an excellent job with performance, comfort, reliability (compared to their recent past)

I wouldn't say they are doing well in the driving enjoyment sector though.

Their cars nowdays are too firmly damped but with with soft springs and high profile tyres, especially the Golf IV.

The Golf GTI has gone downhill in driving enjoyment since the first GTI 20 years back. Too heevy, bulky and mushy suspension.

Thye also screwed up badly in the security department, theres apparently a really easy way to break into a Mk IV Golf in 5 seconds - theres a system that allows the driver to disable the alarm and lower the windows from outside the car supposedly in case the central locking remote goes, and its way too easy to use this system to break into.

VW owners over here are sueing VW for this as they aknowledge the problem but two years after the first complaints came in they decided to do something to fix the vunerability, but at the customers expense (£120).

Just about all car thieves know the method and its become one of the most stolen cars now.

The problem also affects the Lupo, and Polo series. Now insurance premiums have skyrocketed for the Golfs which are affected most.

Buck, remember the W124 200D? 64hp for such a tank-like car!

The biggest difference is that Mercedes went late into the game with rack-and-pinion steering. So, instead of the agile Polo/Golf, you have a slower responding ball-and-knuckle steering box with the Mercedes.

Merc steering is still junk IMO. Too slow and devoid of feel. That said, I've only driven one type, an A190, but that seems to be the general opinion. The steering gearing is not at all linear, you have to wind on half a turn of lock before the front wheels turn a significant amount, and after that its OK, but its too light and lifeless IMO.

They could take a few lessons from the French about making good suspension and steering, French cars are so good in the ride/handling/steering department put so dissapointingly put together. In most cases the mechanical parts are still fine after some years but the entire car has disintergrated around them.
 

Buck

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The biggest challenge for the US Market (I'm not sure about the Oz market), is that older Benzes always had different cam timings and lobe size, different compression ratios, and different transmissions. Hence, the cars were always slower in this country. Although, we never had the W124 200D in the US, just a 300D version. We did have a 200D for the W123 and W110. It’s funny, you think some of those older cars move slowly, and you can’t understand why. Then the thing breaks down and you have to push it. Holy cow!

I'm not a big fan of the Golf or Bug anway, as the size restraints inside just don't fit me. I'll pass on the Jetta too (same car as the Golf anyway). I tend to move right on to the Passat – excellent power with the VR6, good comfort, and good handling. No, it's not a perfect, but I think Volkswagen did a great job. You're correct about the GTI, when you express that it's gained more weight then is good. Although, VW is trying to offset that with the VR6 and the twin-turbo 1.8. The handling will never be great for that car as long as the wheelbase remains so short in proportion to the width of the axles and weight distribution. The original GTIs were just light, so it didn't really matter. Even the Dasher (polo wagon) maneuvered well. The Quantum (Passat wagon) ruined that image. Along the same lines, the Audi Fox was pretty agile.
 

Mercutio

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I in-theory own an '80something Volvo 740 (I inherited it, and it sits in storage all the time because it only has 20,000 miles on it). I've had it out a few times. Granted, it's Swedish, not German, but for a big/long car, I think it's marvelous. Good handling, comfortable, decent pick-up - although I wouldn't want to try a 4-cylinder model. The instrument panel isn't that bad, either. Certainly none of the German eccentricities y'all are talking about.

My brothers are both German car snobs, and neither of them have found a German car they're really happy with. I keep telling them they're both going to wind up in Volkswagons if they keep whining about this or that in their Audi or Mercedes.
 

Buck

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I find anyone snobbish about a certain car annoying (sorry if they're your brothers). I own cars that I know very well. I know there inherent flaws (which all cars have, some more then others) and I know how to fix them. If I were given a Saab, I'd be blind trying to figure out some of the more complex issues. I also tend to favor cars that are more practical in all aspects of ownership, as I'm sure many people here do. Your brothers will probably end up with Volkswagens in the end, and still won't be happy.
 

Buck

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NRG = mc²

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Whoops, didn't manage to finish my message, the 4Motion is powered by an NA 3.2 litre V6.

Mercutio, let your brothers have a go in a Jap luxury barge. No prestige and a dull image but if something like a Lexus doesn't satisfy them then theres no car for them. That said, the IS300 is one of the few Japanese cars I would consider buying - it really looks much more individual than most.

http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/LexusIS300/LexusIS300.htm
 
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