Calculating wheel/tire outside dimensions...

ddrueding

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I think I'm doing this right, but could certainly use someone to check my math.

Wheel sizes are in inches, and are the diameter of the wheel.
Tire sizes come in the format x/y-z where:
x = width of the tred pattern in mm
y = height of the sidewall as a percentage of the tred pattern width
z = wheel size tire is designed for

Therefore, if I'm trying to find the outer diameter of the tire in inches, the equation is:

(x*y)/25.4*2+z

Is that correct?

Examples:

195/65-15 = 24.98in
225/45-17 = 24.97in
225/55-17 = 26.74in
 

jtr1962

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Your equation seems right. I'm not sure about the examples though. Where does the minus sign come in? (edit-never mind- you were just using the minus sign in between the tread width/sidewall height and wheel diameter numbers. Your math seems correct).

Interestingly, bicycle tires are actually labeled by tire width and outside diameter, making things much easier. For example, a 27" x 1 3/8" tire measures exactly according to the label.
 

ddrueding

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As an extension of this, if I increase the diameter from the current 24.97in to 26.74in, the circumference will increase from 78.44in to 84.00in; which is 7% more than the factory stock of 78.47in.

I'm also assuming that this would have a direct impact on the accuracy of my spedometer and odometer, while reducing the engine RPM required at a given speed and negatively impacting performance.

Oh, yeah...that would be the master question ;)
 

ddrueding

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My main issue is that at 100mph my engine is running at near 5000RPM. Considering my commute is about 100mi and I drive about that fast, my engine is running at 5000RPM for nearly an hour; I know that can't be good.

This strikes me as the simplest/cheapest way to get the revs down a bit. Dropping in a 6-speed transmission would be the "best" of course.
 

jtr1962

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Increasing tire size is a common way to effectively get "overdrive" without going through the expense of a new transmission. You would drop your RPM from around 5000 to about 4675 @ 100 mph according to the info you gave. As for affecting the accuracy of your speedometer/odometer I believe any car using electronic pulses, which is probably every car made in the last ten years regardless of whether it has an analog or digital speedo, has an adjustment somewhere. I know the taximeters I've worked with all have such an adjustment. If your mechanic or you can't find out how to do it, then either the car manufacturer would know, or perhaps a taximeter shop might since they deal with this all the time. They probably have more accurate means to calibrate it than the usual driving between mileposts at some constant speed.
 

timwhit

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If I were you I would not mess with the odometer or speedometer, that way your mileage would stay a bit lower with the larger tire. Might not be ethical, but no one selling cars is ethical.
 

Bozo

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In my experiance, tires are not all the same size even if they have the same markings. Best to actually measure the size of the new tire.
I just replaced the tires on my wife's Jeep. The Michelins I installed were over an inch larger in diameter than the Goodyears that came off. Even the spare Goodyear (which is new) is smaller than the Michelins.

Bozo :joker:
 

udaman

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Increasing tire size is a common way to effectively get "overdrive" without going through the expense of a new transmission. You would drop your RPM from around 5000 to about 4675 @ 100 mph according to the info you gave.

Insignificant reduction, if jtr's calculation (how did you do that btw?) is correct. Depending on the vehicle (push rod, slow rpm old style Amer big V8's an such, this would make a difference, with overhead cam designed smaller engines that are not feeble econobox models, 5krpm is in the normal operating range, and in fact letting such a car idle for more than 5minutes at a time produces even more wear on the camshaft lobes, my mechanic scolded me and turned off my engine, the old 2.0 Alfa which he had installed high-lift, but short duration-meaning sharply shaped lobes- Autodelta race cams for the fuel injection, telling me that creates excessive wear),

IIRC it's an recent model Jetta with variable rate-rpm cams, dual overhead??? It will be fine @5k or 4.7k, you'd get lower overall wear if you dropped to 4k, but not a huge reduction. Total miles will get you more wear-that is far more significant as to wear (I know an Alfa owner told me he ran repeatedly in the 6krpm range, wear max is 6.8k IIRC and the engine purred to 60k miles, but you need to do timing chain changes and replacement of associated parts that DO wear, upon inspection of the engine by a qualified mechanic), in the long run; IIRC this Jetta has a lot of miles on it? Save the money to be spent on tires (~$400 incl. balancing & disposal +taxes, correct?) and be ready to buy another car with fewer miles on it.

IIRC, 85mph is the point where speeding tickets become a gross violation of excessive speed (do a search of the CA Vehicle code online), and the penalty can be suspension of license (repeat offenders) and an initial $300+ citation. Put a little oil from a leaking vehicle on the freeway, maybe some morning dew/mist from the ocean there, and yet another reason we could find ddrueding MIA from here...in intensive care a the hospital for extreme injuries suffered in auto accident (don't even have to be flirting either)

Calculations are fine, printed sizes on bicycle or auto tires are nice, but you're both incorrect. There are variances, sometimes significant for the same tire sizes (I don't know if there is an actual penalty for violation of listing standards). Ie. a 195/60 15in tire from one manufacturer could be as much a 1/2in different in true diameter, this I have seen myself measuring the tires side-by-side standing next to each other. Go into a performance, or experienced auto tire seller and ask. Also matters as the weight of the vehicle, tire inflation, and what width the wheel is that the tire is being mounted to...those all effect 'true' diameter of wheel on the car. The shops that do, plus 1, 2, 3 size wheel packages will all know these things for sure.

Damn, I just got me haircut yesterday at the usual place of young thang's hangout in SM, CA. I was simply devasted; my dreamy, super hottie taught, thin, late-teens/early 20's Korean babe, whom I haven't seen in over a year, went back to community college for a year or so, and put on her freshman 15, eeks! How could she change so quickly? *sniff* It’s a cure world (back to you later jtr).


Oops, Bozo beat me to it.
 

udaman

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damn, 5 min. edit window! IIRC it's a late model Golf, but I forget if it's the GTI/h.o. engine?
 

ddrueding

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It a regular 2003 Golf with a 2.0L gas engine. It has 123k miles on it, and it essentially had an engine rebuild last month.* Because it looks to have a fair bit of life left in it, I'd like to make it more fuel efficient/quieter when I'm driving at speed. I've already gone from the stock 195/60-15 to 225/45-17 (no change in diameter, though it is a bit smaller due to the variance mentioned earlier). It's almost time for *another* set of tires (my fifth). If I am going to get new tires anyway, I might as well make this change if it's feasible.

There is significant room for increased diameter in the wheel wells, so what would be the recomended size?

Driving at 100mph can be perfectly safe. All you need is a long, straight road in good condition, good visibility, minimum traffic, and a radar detector. I happen to have them all ;)

*Took the car in for a service that included timing belt replacement. They cranked the engine with the belt 45-degrees off. They replaced (at their expense, with brand new factory parts) the cylinder head, 2 cylinders, all the valves, all the gaskets, the timing belt, and a bunch of other stuff. I suspect this will last for some time to come.
 

P5-133XL

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One of the issues, that I see is that if you don't recalibrate your odometer/speedometer then you will be subconsiously thinking that you are going slower than you really are and there by increase your speed to what you've trained yourself to be 100mph and thereby be goinging even faster. Sorry, but in my mind you are already going too fast. I find that with my car, if I don't actually watch my speedometer, it will creap to exactly 84MPH simply because that is the higherst torque point of the curve. I have to consiously slow myself down

Cars going 100+ are a hazzard on the road because other drivers are not expecting a car to zoom-up to them: They don't really have a good speed sense from seeing cars from the rear view mirror: Especially at night. They may want to change lanes and expect the lane to be clear (using their distance judgement) and then change lanes right into you and neither car will really have time to react to that error causing a very high speed and possibly fatal accident. Then there's your reaction time which is constant, but because you are traveling faster, you need to keep much more distance between you and the other cars around you to react to the actions of the other cars. My observation is that to keep the high rate of speed, you have to dart back and forth between lanes and because of that, you won't keep the necessary distance between you and the other cars. Then there is the need to be able to brake and the higher the speed, the longer it takes to stop a car again requiring a larger distance between you and the other cars on the road.


I know that going 100MPH will get you there faster and you will spend less time on the road being unproductive. I also know that my message is undoubtably falling on deaf ears. Regardless, please reconsider going so fast, for your sake and the other guys.
 

ddrueding

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Mark,

If I were driving in those conditions I would drive much slower. Typically, I'm driving at 10AM or 3PM on a straight highway of at least 3 lanes. There are no cars in front of me within 2-4 miles and no one even in adjacent lanes. Visibility is often over 10 miles. Other cars on the road are doing at least 80mph, even the semis are over 65mph.

At night, in heavier traffic, or in poor weather I slow down to the mid-80s; This keeps the closure rate within reason. I actually consider myself a good driver; I always signal, never tailgate, and let drivers merge whenever they need to.
 

jtr1962

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I know that going 100MPH will get you there faster and you will spend less time on the road being unproductive. I also know that my message is undoubtably falling on deaf ears. Regardless, please reconsider going so fast, for your sake and the other guys.
Well, at least here it saves a good amount of time over doing 70 or whatever the speed limit is since it's a long commute and he's doing it often. In one day 100 versus 70 on a 100 miles each way commute you save 51 minutes. In a week you save over 4 hours. In a year you save the equivalent of over 9 full days. Not an insignificant time savings in my book. Now the idiots who zigzag in and out and speed on a 5 or 10 mile commute make no sense. At best they save seconds. Often they just get to the next red light faster. And driving fast where there are lights, pedestrians, and cyclists really is very dangerous, no arguments about it.

Also, I read that the CHP has indeed found exactly what Dave mentioned on many Interstates-most drivers are over 80. A significant number are over 100. It's speed differential which actually causes most accidents. While accidents are more severe at higher speeds, there's no evidence to suggest that driving faster increases the overall risk. In fact, the death rate actually declines at higher speeds, so even though the death rate per accident might be higher, the accident rate is less, and so is the overall death rate. Of course, all this assumes that the general traffic flow itself is moving faster. Driving much faster than the flow is dangerous regardless of the speed of that flow. And another pet peeve of mine is why on Earth don't they start setting speed limits on these Interstates at the 95th percentile as good traffic engineering practice dictates? Legislators are NOT traffic engineers. They have no business at all setting limits. Setting limits artificially low costs both money and lives. It's also largely unenforceable. In a world of properly set limits, such as the 120 to 160 km/hr (75 to 99 mph) limits which largely exist in Europe, Dave wouldn't be going much over the limit, if at all.
 

jtr1962

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So any hints as to how to recalibrate the spedo? Should the place that I have install the tires be able to recalibrate it?
They should be able to. As udaman mentioned, tire sizes are never exact. The car has to have some adjustment (at least 10% in either direction) to account for this. Maybe there's even some procedure in the service manual for your car to do this, assuming you have it. My brother gets the service manual for every car he owns for exactly things like this. My bike computers incidentally all have a tire circumference calibration for the same reason.

It's a good idea to at least get your speedo dead-on-balls accurate so that you don't think you're doing 100 when you're really doing 107 or 110. My guess is whatever calibration works for the speedometer will also work for the odometer. Everything is with pulses nowadays.
 

ddrueding

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To be honest, I'm not that worried about the spedo at this point; my GPS will give me accurate info no matter what. And it's not like doing 100 instead of 110 will keep me from a ticket ;) I drive whatever speed feels safe; generally from 85 to 110, but once I hit the rev limiter in the 120+ range.
 

Bozo

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Most likely your cars computer will need to be re-calibrated to make the speedo correct.

Bozo :joker:
 

Clocker

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See if you can swap out the final drive gear. Did that in a friends Mustang but we actually went from a 2.73 final drive to a 3.73 final drive (for greater acceleration). Going to a lower ratio final drive will affect all of your drive gears, you will pull fewer RPM to get the same speed in each gear. It will also degrade acceleration. See if you can swap out the final drive gear and have them put in a new little worm gear for the speedo (if that's how they do it nowadays).

Should only cost a couple hundred bucks including labor (at least that what it was on the Mustang). Not sure what your options are with the import.

Also, tires grow at higher speed so your calculation may be inaccurate.
 
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