Car Buying Advice Needed

[Will Rickards]

So our 1999 Saturn SL2 is just too small and low to the ground anymore.
With two kids in carseats the passenger side seat has to go far up so if we all have to go somewhere I have to sit in the passenger side as my wife doesn't fit there.

So we want to get another vehicle - used.
We want bigger like a minivan or smallish suv that will hold the carseats easily. We don't want something high that is hard to get into. We don't want something low like the saturn.

We are considering Honda Odyssey, Honda Pilot, Nissan Quest.

I'm asking for two things:
1) advice on models to consider
2) how/where to get the best price

We were thinking a budget of $10,000 as I don't want another $300 a month payment that doesn't go away for 5 years.

 

[sechs]

Get a bike.... with a back seat. You'l save thousands on car insurance -- better than Geico.

 

[Fushigi]

- Subaru Forester/Outback
- Toyota Sienna (Highlanders are prob too expensive at this point)

Problem is if you want a premium used vehicle, and the Honda name usually carries a premium, you will find them at a premium price, even used. A budget of $10K is not much to work with. Consider if you go new you'll likely get a vehicle that has better economy & would have a warranty, freeing you from repair expenses for 3+ years.

What's you're driving habits? Miles per year? Mostly city or highway? Is maintenance cost a concern? Do you really need a MV or would a larger sedan suffice?

The forums at Edmunds are usually pretty helpful. There's also new & used vehicle pricing info and expected lifetime ownership cost calculators (although those aren't too accurate).

 

[CougTek]

I would get an Odyssey. Pilot is more prone to overturn in curbs.

Since you'll often have children abord, safety should be one, if not your first priority. See how your possible choices score according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (their tests are made at higher speed than the gov's tests):

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/default.aspx

I wouldn't get a Quest. But the Forester seems ok, just watch out for its fuel appetite.

 

[Will Rickards]

We've decided to Lease a 2005 Toyota Sienna.
I'm faxing 27 dealerships on tuesday attempting to get the best deal.

 

[timwhit]

Have you priced the difference between buying and leasing? With some of the low-interest rate loans buying can be quite a better deal.

My car loan is at 0.9%, which is basically nil. With a leased vehicle you get nothing after the lease is over.

 

[Will Rickards]

Yes I've done the math. I'm not interested in owning the car.
It is all about monthly payments and the Lease wins there.

 

[sechs]

Translation: He wants more car than he can really afford.

 

[Pradeep]

Translation: He wants a new, roomier, safer vehicle, yet doesn't want high payments for 5 years.

I don't see leasing as a negative if you drive less than the alloted 10-12,000 miles per year. Especially if you only lease for 2-3 years. At the end, you own nothing, but you also owe nothing.

 

[Will Rickards]

We've decided to delay the leasing till around year end.
Leasing an end of year 2005 is not that great of an idea.
The residual values are less because the car is basically 1 year old already. And even if you get it for well below invoice, compare that to invoice of a 2006. Doing the math it isn't worth it. I should get another raise in november which will make our financials better and we'll see what happens.

Anyway, regarding lease vs. buy.
After reviewing leasing, and not actually ever leasing a car, I can't see the downside. Sure you own nothing at the end but do you really want to?
I would think it must easier to just budget for a lease payment and keep leasing. If you buy the full service plan, you don't pay for anything. No repair costs, no new car envy, better gas mileage, a nicer car than you could afford buying...

Yes, you can get screwed on a lease deal if you don't know how leases work or can't do the math involved. My dad got screwed on his first one. He did better on the second one.

And then there is this thing: I never want to buy a gas powered car again. Too bad BEVs or similar aren't available now. But in 3 years the situation might be different and I could lease one of them.

 

[Fushigi]

Considering how long a decently maintained modern car can last, leasing makes less financial sense than buying. I bought new in 99, paid it off in two years, and have enjoyed no payments for nearly the past 5 years. Just maintenance, which however you slice it is cheaper than lease/buy payments. And has to be done on all vehicles anyway (if the contract includes maintenance, you're still paying for it; the cost is just buried in the purchase price).

It is financially advantageous to own at the end. Besides life without payments any car will have some residual value that can be used to offset the eventual purchase of a replacement. (Oftentimes it will be more advantageous to sell to a private party than trade in to the dealer, but either way there is some cost recovery at the end)

There are other valid reasons to move to a newer vehicle (better safety, improved economy, new car warranty, etc.), but finance certainly isn't one of them.

 

[sechs]

People tend to think of a car as a vehicle, and not as an investment with transportation perks....

 

[Fushigi]

Exactly. Autos are expenses; not investments. With few exceptions, motorized transportation depreciates over time. From a finance standpoint it makes sense to minimize the expense and the perpetual lease payment simply doesn't deliver. The monthly payment itself may be lower but the cost over time, say 6+ years (maybe even 4+), will almost always favor buying.

 

[Will Rickards]

I think of it this way. Like whether to own a house or rent.
I'd be a renter if I had no intention of staying there for a long time.
If I wanted to settle down, I'd buy.
I'll rent (lease) this car since I have no intention of keeping it.
I'll keep my 1994 honda accord though, as I have sort of an emotional attachment to it. And it gets me to work and back just fine. But if the transmission went or something else more costly than the car is worth, I'll be looking for another car.

 

[Howell]

But if the transmission went or something else more costly than the car is worth, I'll be looking for another car.

Actually, even if you had to replace the motor and transmission for $5000 it would be a better car than you could buy for the same money. It's always cheaper to repurchase the car you already own.

 

[LunarMist]

What about paying cash for a car? I suppose that is not economical in some way, but it sure makes things easier.

 

[Buck]

What about paying cash for a car? I suppose that is not economical in some way, but it sure makes things easier.

It usually gives you a discount too.

 

[Fushigi]

It usually gives you a discount too.

Actually, dealerships tend to get kickbacks, or "referral fees" from the banks they get customers to finance through, so car finance is a revenue source for them. As such, they'd encourage you to finance over paying cash.

 

[LunarMist]

Actually, dealerships tend to get kickbacks, or "referral fees" from the banks they get customers to finance through, so car finance is a revenue source for them. As such, they'd encourage you to finance over paying cash.

Really? My experience has been that after the price has been negotiated they don't care whether you pay cash or finance. I'm no expert though, and I don't buy fancy cars that have extermely limited availability. If I don't like the vibe, I go to another dealer.

 

[sechs]

Fushigi needs a little more accounting....

 

[Handruin]

I've seen a slight discount for paying cash in a couple instances. This might be dealer specific.

 

[Fushigi]

Fushigi needs a little more accounting....

sechs needs a little more Google.

 

[mubs]

When we bought my wife's Honda some years back, I walked in with a pre-approved loan at a very competitive rate. After picking the car we wanted, the dealer's finance guy begged me to finance with Honda at 0.5% less, and I refused, saying the hassle was not worth it. He begged so hard and long I finally relented. In 2001 I went abroad for a year, and arranged with my brother to pay my bills. The jackasses at Honda didn't update their records properly with my new address, reported me being 90 days late in payments, and sent a guy out to track the car (and billed me $90 for it). Didn't think of contacting the insurance company who had the correct address, didn't think of contacting the DMV, didn't think of calling my on-record phone # (which was forwarded to my brother's number) and didn't think of writing to me at my original address - the post office forwards mail for a year. A flawless credit record marred by a clerk's inattentiveness and the supervisor/managers stupidity and arrogance. It took a tremenduous amount of effort to correct things when I got back, and one agency still shows me being 90 days late. We need legislation that scorches these assholes for mistakes they make.

 

[Buck]

It usually gives you a discount too.

Actually, dealerships tend to get kickbacks, or "referral fees" from the banks they get customers to finance through, so car finance is a revenue source for them. As such, they'd encourage you to finance over paying cash.

I was making that statement from personal experience. I've personally seen a new $25,000.00 car get dropped to $19,000.00 because it was paid upfront without financing. This can be particularly helpful when you come across a new credit card deal with a fixed 0% APR. Charge the car, and pay it off as you please (minimum payment required). My friend is doing this with his Lexus SUV at the moment.

 

[timwhit]

My car is financed at .9% over 5 years. There is almost no point in paying it off any faster. I think I end up paying $300-400 in interest over the life of the loan.

 

[sechs]

Fushigi needs a little more accounting....

sechs needs a little more Google.

A little education will get you much farther than Google can.... I was referring to accounting of a car purchase not kickbacks.

 

[Fushigi]

Fushigi needs a little more accounting....

sechs needs a little more Google.

A little education will get you much farther than Google can.... I was referring to accounting of a car purchase not kickbacks.

Then you need to be more specific or quote the comment that you're replying to. My last post before yours only mentioned the kickbacks & referral fees and contained not a single mention of purchase/finance vs. lease accounting.

And since you gave absolutely no information in your post, just a minor insult, why even make the post?

 

[sechs]

If you will allow a little sense to intervene, you'd realise that my post makes little sense in reference to your kickbacks post, and, thus must reference the subthread concerning accounting for car purchases....

 

[Fushigi]

If you will allow a little sense to intervene, you'd realise that my post makes little sense in reference to your kickbacks post, and, thus must reference the subthread concerning accounting for car purchases....

If you will allow a little sense to intervene, you would realize that "finance" is an accounting term.

 

[sechs]

Once again, I suggest that you need more eduation in accounting.

 

[CougTek]

Sechs, Fushigi was trying to help just like you. Give him a break.

 

[Fushigi]

Sechs, Fushigi was trying to help just like you. Give him a break.

I haven't seen anything helpful from sechs in this thread.

 

[Handruin]

The goal of this thread was to help Will and I no longer see that happening. I don't understand why there has to be snide remarks. So...I'm going to close this thread before it develops into something more than it should be. PM me if you think this is wrong.