Does Norway have the Death Penalty?
- Thread starter Clocker
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Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Civilized countries do not have a death penalty.
Actually, as I recall from a documentary on the subject, penal systems in Scandinavian countries are progressive to an almost hyperbolic degree.
But with any luck, the bomber will get put someplace unpleasant and never see daylight again.
Actually, as I recall from a documentary on the subject, penal systems in Scandinavian countries are progressive to an almost hyperbolic degree.
But with any luck, the bomber will get put someplace unpleasant and never see daylight again.
ddrueding
Fixture
I would agree, but I certainly don't want to pay for his room and board until he dies of old age. That is why I support the death penalty, much cheaper than "life without parole".
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Well, yes and no. Capital Punishment cases consume vast resources in the legal system. There are actually jurisdictions in the US that refuse to try them just because they're so expensive in terms of legal resources.
The other thing is, death is permanent and irrevocable. Legal mistakes are made, and there can be a disgustingly wide gulf between the resources available to the defendant and the prosecution. Especially in the last 10 years of advances in testing genetic evidence, we've learned that there REALLY ARE many innocent men sitting on Death Row, and there's a small army of legal students working with the Innocence Project to get those cases re-opened.
Listen to the This American Life episode about Governor George Ryan's utter about-face on capital punishment sometime. It's one of the vanishingly few times I'm aware that a republican has done anything even remotely respectable.
The other thing is, death is permanent and irrevocable. Legal mistakes are made, and there can be a disgustingly wide gulf between the resources available to the defendant and the prosecution. Especially in the last 10 years of advances in testing genetic evidence, we've learned that there REALLY ARE many innocent men sitting on Death Row, and there's a small army of legal students working with the Innocence Project to get those cases re-opened.
Listen to the This American Life episode about Governor George Ryan's utter about-face on capital punishment sometime. It's one of the vanishingly few times I'm aware that a republican has done anything even remotely respectable.
time
Storage? I am Storage!
There are definitely some people who simply represent too great a risk to society to ever be freed. I think capital punishment is a rational choice in those cases, even humane. The perpetrator of the Norwegian massacre clearly falls into that category.
BUT, capital punishment has been abused in all countries, which is why it is so divisive. As long as a significant percentage of people feel strongly enough about it to attempt to thwart it, pursuing it only creates angst and unwanted expense.
On a philosophical note, I have wondered if everyone with a life sentence should have the option of State-assisted suicide. Shades of Socrates I suppose, but as Ddrueding points out, it avoids a lifetime burden on the community. Surely justice should be pragmatic?
BUT, capital punishment has been abused in all countries, which is why it is so divisive. As long as a significant percentage of people feel strongly enough about it to attempt to thwart it, pursuing it only creates angst and unwanted expense.
On a philosophical note, I have wondered if everyone with a life sentence should have the option of State-assisted suicide. Shades of Socrates I suppose, but as Ddrueding points out, it avoids a lifetime burden on the community. Surely justice should be pragmatic?
Stereodude
Not really a
What sort of logic is this?
Using that logic, we shouldn't put anyone in jail because doing so could put an innocent person in jail and that would be a tragedy...
Howell
Storage? I am Storage!
Not to be glib, but if someone in prison wanted to no longer live there are many ways to accomplish that end either self inflicted or other provoked. Just snitching on somebody would get the job done.
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
An hour and a half before police responded to the island, whilst children were butchered like fish in a barrel. Reports of a second shooter not in uniform, who presumably hitched a ride off at the end?
Incredible reports that some moved towards him when he started shooting in the hall at the initial gathering, thinking it was some drill/exercise.
Is it possible that one can have so much trust in a uniform that one goes up to a man firing a rifle to have a chat? Innocence well and truly lost.
Incredible reports that some moved towards him when he started shooting in the hall at the initial gathering, thinking it was some drill/exercise.
Is it possible that one can have so much trust in a uniform that one goes up to a man firing a rifle to have a chat? Innocence well and truly lost.
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
Give them time. Building high speed rail with corrupt construction firms and substandard materials should deliver over the long term:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14262276
On a serious note Switzerland recently had a referendum on ending "vacationing" end of life seekers, it failed to pass. Which is a good thing IMO, though sad that such services are not available for them in their home countries.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
The only purpose of prison should be to reform criminals so they can be let back into society once they are no longer deemed a danger (i.e. that means indeterminant, not fixed, sentences). I regard a criminal more like a bad part which needs to be fixed. You don't hit your car with a hammer to punish it if it breaks (unless you're Cougtek 
), nor should we do the same with human beings. And in the same way some cars break down beyond repair, some people are just beyond reform. Their minds are hopelessly broken beyond any hope of "fixing". This is a case where it makes sense to remove the person permanently from society. The best way is to put them somewhere isolated by geography, with no chance of escape, and where society won't need to spend money guarding them or feeding them. Naturally, such a place would be hell on earth for whomever is sent there, so we should offer a choice between permanent exile and death in the interests of being humane. In this particular case, I'd be dubious that the person who did this could be reformed. I might say try for 10 years. If not, give him a choice of exile or death.
The big problem as I see it with many justice systems is the total lack of any attempts at reform. If you get to some criminals early, while they're still in the petty crime stage, you can avoid major expense down the road.
), nor should we do the same with human beings. And in the same way some cars break down beyond repair, some people are just beyond reform. Their minds are hopelessly broken beyond any hope of "fixing". This is a case where it makes sense to remove the person permanently from society. The best way is to put them somewhere isolated by geography, with no chance of escape, and where society won't need to spend money guarding them or feeding them. Naturally, such a place would be hell on earth for whomever is sent there, so we should offer a choice between permanent exile and death in the interests of being humane. In this particular case, I'd be dubious that the person who did this could be reformed. I might say try for 10 years. If not, give him a choice of exile or death.The big problem as I see it with many justice systems is the total lack of any attempts at reform. If you get to some criminals early, while they're still in the petty crime stage, you can avoid major expense down the road.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I believe you're failing to understand the distinction between an action which is reversible and one that is not. If the state kills an innocent man, it has no mechanism with which to repair the harm caused by doing so, and it has in effect committed murder as well as a miscarriage of justice.
Do you really want to argue that putting innocents to death is an acceptable by-product of our justice system?