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i

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Anyone have experience with running RJ-45 cable through areas where close proximity to 120VAC power cables is unavoidable?

I've been keeping my cable runs a minimum distance of 6 inches from all sources of power, but I'm now facing a particularly brutal wiring area where I have no choice but to follow a cluster of 120VAC power cables that also happen to feed several fluorescent lights (I don't think this area could get much worse).

I don't have any shielded RJ-45 cable, and given how many network cables I want to run through this "hot-spot", I doubt I could afford going that route.

Instead, I've picked up some 2 inch diameter steel conduit. My plan was to run the RJ-45 cable through these pipe segments when I get close to the power and fluorescent lights. I was then going to run a permanent grounding wire to the sections of conduit.

However, something made me doubt whether this would be a perfect solution when I first considered it - and as it's been a long time since I've taken a physics course, I couldn't really figure out why. Anyway, something I read on Slashdot today added to my doubts.

From http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=41591&cid=4394400 :

-----------------------------------
"CRT monitors are affected more by low-frequency EMI than the RFI computers emit.

A simple test: Take the lid off of your case, and place it beside the monitor. Nothing strange happens.

Next, place an AC-operated fan, transformer-based soldering iron, or similar magnetic device next to the monitor, and watchen das blinkenrainbow.

That said, flat peices of steel (such as that which comprises your case) do very little to counteract low-frequency magnetism, while aluminum does absolutely nothing. Common steel can have some low-freuquency shielding effect if it's curved just so, but that's usually impractical. (there's other stuff, such as Mu-Metal, which is formulated with the specific goal of blocking EMI, and does work quite well. But it's expensive, and hard to find.)

I have to be careful where I put my Best FerrUPS because the large ferroresonant transformer in it will cause monitors to shake from several feet away.

Problems with computer-generated RFI generally show up with radio and television. I can't listen to an AM radio anywhere near my apartment with the PCs on, and there's a few FM stations that I can only recieve outside or in the back bedroom, away from the machines.

My neighbors must hate me for it, as I'm sure it's not much better anywhere in the building. But the 300-pound, heavy-footed woman upstairs has four kids who wake up at 5:30 AM daily, and the people directly beside me have a bad habit of listening to one-note bass lines with their lousy, one-note subwoofer, directly on the other side of the wall behind my desk.

So, I guess I care a lot less about RFI than I do about proper cooling. Thus, the top of the case is completely absent, allowing all kinds of natural, quiet convection cooling to take place."
-----------------------------------

I realize this quote is referring to the impact an open PC case might have on sensitive electronic components - and "low-frequency magnetism" sounds altogether bogus to me - but it does bring up the point that there is a difference between radio frequency interference and magnetic fields.

I think the steel conduit will protect my network cable from any RFI generated by the fluorescent lights, but I'm not sure if it will do anything to protect against the magnetic fields generated by the power cables. Those magnetic fields could easily induce stray voltages in my network cabling - and I'm not sure that the steel conduit would do anything to stop those magnetic fields.

Then again, shielded TP network cable is rated for use in areas where power cables will be close by, is it not?

So what about the grounded, steel conduit idea of mine? How would the end result be any different than if I'd used shielded TP network cable? Does either option provide protection against both RFI and magnetic fields? Do I even need to worry?

There are times when I wish I'd done my degree in electrical engineering.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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If nothing else, you're looking at a substantial performance degradation from interference. Your network will probably work, sort of, but in my experience, you're better off looking for another plan of action.

I've never tried steel pipe myself, but even STP doesn't do well in those conditions.

The worst conditions I've ever dealt with were in a bakery, with 220VAC lines everywhere for the ovens and all-flourescent lighting. What I ended up doing, since I couldn't avoid running parallel to the lines, was suspending my bundles from the power lines with nice, long wire ties, to ensure a minimum safe distance from the power AND the lights.

I probably broke fire codes to do the job, but the network worked well enough to burn CDs from drives across the building.
 

time

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AFAIK, what you are proposing will not help, and more probably will make things worse.

Shields have to totally enclose from end to end to have any effect, which will be impossible with your sections of pipe. Even with grounding, you run the risk of it being more successful as an antenna than a shield. The higher the frequency, the harder it is to prevent this.

Shielded cable can be a con. This white paper includes some test reports and points out:

At first glance, it may appear that because STP cable is physically encased in a shield, all outside interference is automatically blocked; however, this is not true.

Just like a wire, the shield acts as an antenna, converting received noise into current flowing in the shield when it has been properly grounded. This current, in turn, induces an equal and opposite current flowing in the twisted pairs.


You are also very probably violating the National Electric Code. Article 800-52, Installation of Communications Wires, Cables and Equipment, Section 2, Other Applications, states:

Communications wires and cables shall be separated at least 2 in. (50.8mm) from conductors of any electric light, power, Class 1, nonpower-limited fire alarm, or medium power network - powered broadband communications.

Although encasing your data cables in some sort of conduit, plastic or metal, removes the safety restriction.

I'd theorize that bunching your cable untidily, rather than having it dead parallel to the power cables, might help. Suppressors/filters on the fluros might help too. But if there's only a couple of lights, the current will be low anyway, so why worry?
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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Well, I have no idea what the theory behind network wiring is. I just know the recipies for making it work.

So it's good that we can agree, both from the experiential standpoint and the technical (your white paper), that i isn't in a very good place and STP isn't gonna help.

Now the question is, what will, save distance?
 

Pradeep

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For noisy industrial environments, coaxial network topology is best. Sure you won't get 100Mbit/sec, but the signal will get thru.
 

Fushigi

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If your bandwidth requirement isn't too high, how about a wireless solution? 802.11a does 52ish Mbps. Throw out some for the conditions (if it would even apply) and bandwidth should still be good enough for just about anything.

Hub to WAP to WAP to hub is what I was thinking, unless there's only 1 or 2 devices on the remote end.

- Fushigi
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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I can tell you from experience that Wireless doesn't do well where there are lots of fluorescent lights, either. Maybe the 5GHz 802.11a is better.

And honestly, the best possible answer is fiber. Fiber is used all the time in the worst environments imaginable, like power plants (think YOU have interference problems...).

Coax is a might big PITA, EMI problems or not.
 

Prof.Wizard

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How's Bluetooth selling in America?
Since you don't share our EuroLove for GSM phones I was wondering...
 

i

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Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. This turned into a very interesting discussion - thanks especially Mercutio and Time (that whitepaper was very interesting).

I wasn't expecting how difficult it seems to be to effectively "shield" a section of network wiring in a noisy location. Alternate technology such as fiber or wireless is too late in the game for me, and more costly than I can afford right now anyway. Next time though ... :wink:

Whenever I decide to get back to this problematic area (I've switched to doing some more video cabling now because I needed a break), I think I will seriously look into moving the power cables! As I think about it now, it would be easier than trying to find a new route for the network cables.

I intentionally left the topic of this discussion vague because I'm sure I'll have other questions before I'm finished.

Clocker, how's your home wiring going?
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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Bluetooth is nowhere to be seen here in the states. Not surprising given microsoft's stance for support (XP doesn't even support it, officially).

It's a low-bandwidth technology, anyway, and with the ranges and levels of interference i will be dealing with, not a solution in this instance.
 
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