Interesting Comments on WinXP Keys, KeyGens, and WinUpdate

Clocker

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I guess this just confirms what I've been thinking for a while now. I read the article below here: http://pages.prodigy.net/br0adband/Windows_XP_and_Service_Pack_1.htm


Windows XP and Service Pack 1:

Why The XP Keygen Won’t Help… For Long

Ok, all this fucking hullaballu and whining is getting on my frickin’ nerves. Let’s get to the gist of the matter.

Microsoft, in its infinite wisdom and infinite pockets, keeps track of every single stinkin’ Product Key, Product ID, Product Code, CD Key, Licensing Key, Volume Licensing Key, etc etc etc ad nauseum. What does this mean to YOU? It means that, for the time being, if you have used the popular “XP Key Recoverer and Discoverer 5.12” that’s out floating around on the Internet to generate a CD Key to activate/register your copy of XP (Home, Pro or Corp) you’ll be SOL (read: Shit Outta Luck) in a short period of time. “But why oh why?” you ask. Read on and you’ll hopefully understand.

For the purposes of this discussion I’ll stick to calling anything related to a “product registration code/key code/activation code” a “key” to make it simple. Got that?

Ok, since Microsoft has a complete database of every key ever made for all of their products, this time around with Windows XP it’s become even more of a chore for them (and a stick in their asses) since the whole basis of “Product Activation” centers itself around the key used to ‘activate’ Windows XP. When you purchase a retail copy of Windows XP, whether it’s the Home Edition or the Professional Edition, on the CD case someplace you’ll find a yellow sticker with a 25-digit string of alphanumeric digits known as the aforementioned ‘key’. They look something like this (and NO NO NO this is not a real key, just something for example):

Y34HR-1GHTU-W15HU-D4MND-L4M3R
(hint: If you read that key in ‘l33t’ you’ll get a super-secret message) J

Anyway, the key is 5 sets of 5 alphanumeric digits. The key itself follows a specific set of rules that can be found here at this page: Fully Licensed XP Product Activation FAQ.

Just to be brief, here is the important aspect of this information:

“The Raw Product Key is buried inside the Product Key that is printed
on the sticker distributed with each Windows XP CD. It consists of
five alphanumeric strings separated by '-' characters, where each
string is composed of five characters, as in

FFFFF-GGGGG-HHHHH-JJJJJ-KKKKK

Each character is one of the following 24 letters and digits:

B C D F G H J K M P Q R T V W X Y 2 3 4 6 7 8 9”

So what does all this mean? Nothing much really, just wanted to give you a short primer on XP keys, now on to the important stuff.

We’ve established that Microsoft has a record of all the keys THEY have made (every yellow sticker included with every CD whether it’s a retail product or an OEM release, remember this), does it sound like it would be all that hard for them to check the validity of the keys? It does? Why? You think it’s all that difficult for MasterCard, Visa, American Express, Discover, Diner’s Club, etc. to keep track of the literally millions and millions of credit card accounts open at any given time? Nah, it’s a piece of cake. Microsoft is just doing the same thing.

Microsoft maintains a database of XP keys that is fairly simple to link into the Windows Update service used for updating XP with current software/bug fixes/hotfixes/etc. When you go to Windows Update looking for something a small exchange of data between your PC and the Microsoft servers is quite enough for them (‘them’ being Microsoft) to verify the existence of a valid key for Windows XP. What do I mean by ‘valid key’? I mean one that Microsoft itself generated and printed a yellow sticker for.

Got it yet?

This isn’t rocket science people. Let me explain.

Microsoft owns the operating system. You don’t. Even though you paid for a product, what you’re actually getting is the ‘right to use the product’, not ‘the product itself’. Welcome to the wonderful world of software licensing. Microsoft is merely taking the steps necessary to “protect its interests as far as software piracy is concerned.” Microsoft, by verifying the validity of a key by using Windows Update for this very function, is not breaking any laws by doing so. If you think they are, you need to read the EULA (End-User Licensing Agreement) that came with Windows XP. It’s not really that easy to get to once the operating system is installed, and if you’ve missed it already it’s not relevant at this point.

Here’s a new page I just discovered that, in essence, says what I’m about to say but it’s more technical than what I’m about to say: Volume Licensing Keys and SP1 - What REALLY Happens. As noted on that page, there are well over a BILLION keys in the database, all of them recorded and valid.

So what do I want to say? Just this: It doesn’t matter how many keys you make with the keygen. You can make BILLIONS for all I care. It’s just not going to matter in the end because Microsoft, by using Windows Update, will verify YOUR key against THEIRS. If YOUR key isn’t on THEIR list you lose. It’s really that simple. Generate all the damned Home, Pro and Corp VLKs you like, it’s not going to make one iota of difference. Your freshly generated keys might work for a short period of time, and bypassing or choosing not to use Windows Update at all will save you from a frozen PC for however long you choose to walk this path. BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE – sooner or later you’re going to get stuck.

My advice: Save some cash and buy the damned software. I personally own one Retail Home Edition copy, one Retail Profession Edition copy, one Corp <cough> <cough> Edition – commonly referred to as ‘The Devil’s Own’ warez release – and 3 Not-For-Resale copies I got from Microsoft directly, so I’m covered. J

I hope this helps, but I bet some of you are still hoping for some l33t warezer crack – which just might happen at some point.

Get a JOB. ‘Nuff typed.

Have a great day! J

©2002 p2, Inc. – prepared by br0adband@prodigy.net. All rights reserved. If you copy this give credit where credit is due. If not I’ll hunt you down and do things to you that even God himself couldn’t repair.
 

SteveC

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I wonder if it'll actually happen. It certainly seems plausible enough that Microsoft would do that. It would probably be a big shock to a lot people if they went to Windows Update, and found that their computer became unusable.

Steve
 

P5-133XL

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While MSprobably has a right to disable copies of their OS, they have issues doing stuff like that.

The first is of public opinion. Alienating a large bunch of people does MS no good. There undoubtably will be repercussions when purchasing an OS: they remember what MS did to them.

Second, is security. MS has good security atached to the NT, W2k, XP and anyone that used that securiy to lock down their files will not find reinstaling with a valid OS sufficient to get access to those files. While MS has the right to prevent usage of pirated software, they do not have the right to prevent access to the customers own files. Do I see a law suit comming? This is the equivilent of the theif successfully sueing the property owner for laying a trap that did physical harm to the theif.
 

Tea

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There is an even simpler method: just say no to XP. And if enough people do it - make no mistake, there is a powerful groundswell now - it will be far more effective. Hit M$ where it hurts the most: in their pocket.I'll be running W2K for a few years yet, and by the time I want to upgrade, Linux will be fully mature.
 

CougTek

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I too try to only sell Win 2K, but it's becoming increasingly difficult. Several stores only offer WinXP over here now and there is pressure everywhere to turn to WinXP. It's almost like if Microshit didn't distribute Win2K copies anymore.

I too hope that Linux will mature soon.
 

Buck

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Tea said:
There is an even simpler method: just say no to XP. And if enough people do it - make no mistake, there is a powerful groundswell now - it will be far more effective. Hit M$ where it hurts the most: in their pocket.I'll be running W2K for a few years yet, and by the time I want to upgrade, Linux will be fully mature.

Great idea Tea, but for me Windows XP Home is cheaper then Windows98 and Windows XP Professional is cheaper then Windows 2000 Professional. Also, Windows XP has a superior driver base then Windows98.

I'm stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place. Linux has not advanced enough to compete with XP.
 

Mercutio

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Microsoft makes all its updates available for download elsewhere through its site. You don't HAVE to use Windows Update. If you use warezed XP, and you do, you're a moron (no reason for YOUR keygen'd key to get put in their "bad" database).

There will be a crack for whatever the hell they do to SP1. Product updates will always be available to corporate customers outside of Windows update, which means anyone has indirect access to them.

In short, I don't see a problem.
 

Tea

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You can downgrade freely, Buck. i.e., you buy a copy of XP Home and install 98SE (or, if you want, ME, W95, even Win 3.1 if you want to). This is 100% legitimate.

Or, you buy XP Pro and install NT 4.0 or W2000. Again, perfectly legitimate. But you can't install 2000 on an XP Home license - that is switching from the home OS to the even more expensive business OS, and is piracy.
 

Buck

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Tea said:
You can downgrade freely, Buck. i.e., you buy a copy of XP Home and install 98SE (or, if you want, ME, W95, even Win 3.1 if you want to). This is 100% legitimate.

Or, you buy XP Pro and install NT 4.0 or W2000. Again, perfectly legitimate. But you can't install 2000 on an XP Home license - that is switching from the home OS to the even more expensive business OS, and is piracy.

That sounds nice Tea, but I'm talking about my customers. Why would I downgrade anyone to NT 4.0? I love the software, but support for ATA-66, ATA-100, USB, FireWire, etc., are non-existant. I can't sell that anymore. The same goes for 95 and 3.1x. 3.12 (oem version) was dear to my heart, but that software isn't compatible with most items sold today. Windows95 isn't much better. ME I personally consider to be trash because it was not a new operating system, just a bug ridden version of 98 SE. I can see my self convincing someone of 98 SE, but with XP costing less and running just as good, if not better . . . alas, I'm stuck.
 

Pradeep

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I didn't think XP Home allowed downgrade rights? Have they changed something? I know that OEM XP Pro recently had the EULA changed to permit downgrading.
 

James

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It all sounds somewhat logical (if very poorly expressed) until you remember it says quite clearly on Windows Update - "No information is being sent to Microsoft." Until that changes those that are one rung above script kiddies and the associated l33t h4x0rz - like the arrogant, misinformed and condescending brat that "authored" the article Clocker posted - can continue to spread their FUD, but they're still wrong.

I could go through and criticise the various points individually but really I'm not interested enough. Suffice it to say that if the author had ever actually done a large scale install of XP in a corporate environment or used MSDN s/he'd now what the score really is.

Then again, you can always go this route too :

http://www.microsoft.com/Windows2000/downloads/recommended/susserver/download.asp
 

Tea

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XP running "just as good"? Huh? XP has huge problems, especially with modems. Maybe SP1 will fix that, maybe not. But there is no way on God's green earth that XP can deliver performance anywhere near that delivered by less eyecandy-ridden Windows versions. Best advice for the OEM (assuming that the cost of 2000 puts it out of the equation) is sell XP home but install 98SE. If and when XP becomes stable and supportable, your customer will be able to upgrade to it at no further expense. Until then, steer clear.

With any luck, by the time that happens, the inevitable Linux-on-the-desktop explosion will have begun. It's not ready for prime time yet, but it's getting closer every day, and when it happens it will happen very, very fast.
 

Buck

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Tea said:
XP running "just as good"? Huh? XP has huge problems, especially with modems. Maybe SP1 will fix that, maybe not. But there is no way on God's green earth that XP can deliver performance anywhere near that delivered by less eyecandy-ridden Windows versions. Best advice for the OEM (assuming that the cost of 2000 puts it out of the equation) is sell XP home but install 98SE. If and when XP becomes stable and supportable, your customer will be able to upgrade to it at no further expense. Until then, steer clear.

With any luck, by the time that happens, the inevitable Linux-on-the-desktop explosion will have begun. It's not ready for prime time yet, but it's getting closer every day, and when it happens it will happen very, very fast.

I'm sorry that you have such problems with XP. With US Robotics and Creative V92 modems, I dont' have any problems. I have yet to encounter huge problems.
 

Tea

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It's got to the point where I'm no longer really willing to sell XP with an internal modem, Buck. And it can be problematic with externals too. For the love of Mike, a Rockwell external modem is just about the simplest damn device it's possible to imagine. I can use CP/M with an external modem, never mind any other operating system I've ever heard of. But XP ... oh no, it's all too hard. What the hell is so difficult about getting something as simple as a modem right?

It's a disgrace.

As for internals, try the following: install XP. Install SwanSmart modem (major brand over here, rebadged from something else no doubt, Connexant chipset). XP wants to load its own drivers. OK, let it do what it wants. Everything works fine. Till you try to dial the first time. Then it dials out without being asked, but fails to connect. And redails. And redials. Forever. Reboot. Same thing. Check settings a hundred times over. Same thing. Delete modem. Delete dialup connection, makes no difference at all. Remove modem. Reinstall modem. Same thing. Put modem in different slot. Same thing. Remove modem, install completely different modem with Motorolla chipset, same bloody thing. Install third different modem: same thing. Format drive, reinstall XP with Netcomm modem, no longer insisting on dialing out ll the time, just won't dial at all. Format drive again, install 98SE, works perfectly with anymodem.

That was the worst individual one, but we have now been through about five different sorts of internal modem, with three different chipsets, and we are still having big problems. I can't even work with externals unless you choose the brand carefully and hold your tongue just right.

I am completely sick and bloody tired of spending my time and my money to fix up Microsoft's mistakes.
 

Buck

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What a nightmare you are having. If that happened to me, I would feel the same way. When I first switched to XP, I was using US Robotics V92 internal modem. XP installed the drivers and dialing-up went without a hitch - first time, everytime. The US Robotics are a bit pricey, so I started using Creative V92 internal modems. Under 2000 and XP, no problems, dialing-up works just fine. Since the Creative V92 modems have worked so well, I've stuck with those for now.
 

Fushigi

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My Dell laptop has a built-in PCTel 2304WT V.92 MDC Modem. Running XP Pro, it works just fine. No problems setting it up or anything. PCTel is listed as the driver provider, not MS, so maybe that's where the problem lies.

- Fushigi
 

Mercutio

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The three times I've done XP on machines with modems, I can say I had problems only once - a generic Cirrus Logic based dual modem just wouldn't work with XP. I replaced it with a couple of Genica Lucent-based modems and everything worked.

The Supra Connexant-based modems I use in builds work with XP.

Maybe your SwanSmart modmes are goofy (slightly customized) in some way?

I *REALLY* can't imagine an operating system not being able to deal with an external serial modem. Next time I sit at one I'll test it with my old 14.4 USR.
 
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