Iraqi crisis explained...

[Howell]

now the question is this, how do you Americans feel ....

After the war is done, the US and Russia will need to come to an understanding...

 

[its.fubar]

It has come to my attention That the Russians companies have been selling sophisticated military equipment to Iraq,such as jamming equipment which knocks out the GPS guidance system on American equipment.

[...]

by the way the Russians are still in Iraq teaching them how to use it.

Oh wow, here's CIA wonder boy coming to the rescue. What's your number, secret agent? 00...0?

Don't you have the BBC world program or any other news program where you are how unfortunate.

 

[Mercutio]

The BBC no longer broadcasts directly in the USA, its, and hasn't for several years.
The only way to get BBC news is shortwave or from non-corporate broadcast source (CBC, NPR, Pacifica Radio) that happens to carry it. I wouldn't exactly call it an unbiased source at this point, either.

Also Handruin, its, CougTek, remember this site's Rules of Conduct:

Our motto: show respect at all times.

 

[slo crostic]

Only just heard this and cannot qualify source but.......
Apparently there are five companies who won the contract to rebuild Iraq after the war and all five funded the republican party's last election campaign.
Talk about looking out for your friends. :roll:

 

[The Giver]

Tasmanian Aboriginal Terrorists storm Australian Parliament!

DEMONSTRATIONS
Security review after protesters storm parliament
Mar 25
Jason Koutsoukis with AAP


About 400 anti-war demonstrators invaded the public entrance to Parliament House in Canberra yesterday, leading to the closure of the building.

Several protesters also disrupted question time in the House of Representatives, prompting a review of security procedures by Speaker Neil Andrew.

The peaceful protest on the lawn outside Parliament House turned ugly when, after listening to several anti-war speakers, a section of the crowd stormed the building's front entrance.

Police and security staff locked the main public entrance to keep the protesters at bay.

The actions started with an overnight candlelight vigil outside Parliament House.

Later the wall around The Lodge, Prime Minister John Howard's official Canberra residence, was bombed with red paint.

Aboriginal tent embassy representatives held a traditional smoking ceremony with burning gum leafs as other protesters, some in school uniform, waved peace flags and shouted for the troops to come home. Protesters charged the police line, resulting in one arrest, while others climbed up the western wall of the building and waved banners on the grassy roof of the building.

After about an hour, police reinforcements arrived and began to push the protesters out of the parliamentary forecourt.

Two men who climbed up to the coat of arms over the forecourt and hung a rainbow peace flag were arrested.

ACT police said a 29-year-old Victorian was charged with defacing commonwealth property over the attack on The Lodge.

Inside parliament, about 16 protesters stood up in the public galleries at intervals to shout slogans during question time before being dragged away by security guards.

From - http://afr.com/iraq/2003/03/25/FFX3820ANDD.html

 

[honold]

Only just heard this and cannot qualify source but.......
Apparently there are five companies who won the contract to rebuild Iraq after the war and all five funded the republican party's last election campaign.
Talk about looking out for your friends. :roll:

the eyes have it, and the eyes always will

 

[its.fubar]

Tasmanian Aboriginal Terrorists storm Australian Parliament!

DEMONSTRATIONS
Security review after protesters storm parliament
Mar 25
Jason Koutsoukis with AAP


About 400 anti-war demonstrators invaded the public entrance to Parliament House in Canberra yesterday, leading to the closure of the building.

Several protesters also disrupted question time in the House of Representatives, prompting a review of security procedures by Speaker Neil Andrew.

The peaceful protest on the lawn outside Parliament House turned ugly when, after listening to several anti-war speakers, a section of the crowd stormed the building's front entrance.

Police and security staff locked the main public entrance to keep the protesters at bay.

The actions started with an overnight candlelight vigil outside Parliament House.

Later the wall around The Lodge, Prime Minister John Howard's official Canberra residence, was bombed with red paint.

Aboriginal tent embassy representatives held a traditional smoking ceremony with burning gum leafs as other protesters, some in school uniform, waved peace flags and shouted for the troops to come home. Protesters charged the police line, resulting in one arrest, while others climbed up the western wall of the building and waved banners on the grassy roof of the building.

After about an hour, police reinforcements arrived and began to push the protesters out of the parliamentary forecourt.

Two men who climbed up to the coat of arms over the forecourt and hung a rainbow peace flag were arrested.

ACT police said a 29-year-old Victorian was charged with defacing commonwealth property over the attack on The Lodge.

Inside parliament, about 16 protesters stood up in the public galleries at intervals to shout slogans during question time before being dragged away by security guards.

From - http://afr.com/iraq/2003/03/25/FFX3820ANDD.html

I seem to remember somebody criticizing my posts in another forum which was about the Tasmania Freedom Fighters and their exploits , it is well known I have the news before all others. he he and ha ha

 

[fool]

The Aborigines mentioned above weren’t Tasmanian. There are plenty of Aborigines from mainland Australia, these were those. Aborigines from Tasmania however are all dead, done, kaput, finished, not resting, not hiding, not pining for Hobart, not running pet shops selling Norwegian Blues, there gone. All of them. There are no more. They are, without exception ex people.

 

[fool]

Oh, and while I’m familiar with the phrase,
“One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter”
I cant say I’ve ever heard
“ One mans freedom fighter is another mans protestor”
Or are we to believe that any Aboriginal who does anything in the public eye is not only Tasmanian but also a freedom fighter?

 

[its.fubar]

The Aborigines mentioned above weren’t Tasmanian. There are plenty of Aborigines from mainland Australia, these were those. Aborigines from Tasmania however are all dead, done, kaput, finished, not resting, not hiding, not pining for Hobart, not running pet shops selling Norwegian Blues, there gone. All of them. There are no more. They are, without exception ex people.

To my recollection I never mention Which Land these Tasmanian freedom fighters come from,But one thing is for certain they are a extremely Interesting people if they are as you say "all gone" and be able to resurrect them selves so easily when they are needed.

 

[Tea]

Fool, you wouldn't care to comment on the Carolina Parakeet, then? Or possibly the Norweigan Blue?

 

[Jake the Dog]

how on earth is it possible to ressurect a people that were wiped out in the 19th century? it's not. nor is anyone trying to either.

 

[its.fubar]

how on earth is it possible to ressurect a people that were wiped out in the 19th century? it's not. nor is anyone trying to either.

You know these Tasmanian freedom fighters are a wily magical bunch that have been known to Emerge from the most unexpected places just when you need them.they are truly extraordinary almost mystical.

 

[Jake the Dog]

I know what's mystical around here...

 

[its.fubar]

I know what's mystical around here...

And there I was under the impression that the mystical digger's Had broken away from their colonial tormentors.

 

[Howell]

The Aborigines mentioned above weren’t Tasmanian. There are plenty of Aborigines from mainland Australia, these were those. Aborigines from Tasmania however are all dead, done, kaput, finished, not resting, not hiding, not pining for Hobart, not running pet shops selling Norwegian Blues, there gone. All of them. There are no more. They are, without exception ex people.

Their spirit is gone but the stench remains? :lol:

 

[its.fubar]

You Americans have now the possibility of Seeing the real person sitting in the white house now.

Just move your mouse.

http://www.kicken.com/funnyfiles2/www.kicken.com-bush.x-ray.swf

 

[Tea]

For the firzt time in my entire life, I zee a good reazon for Flazh. Love it!

 

[Mercutio]

Step away from the crack pipe, Tea.

 

[Tea]

The linky thing, Merc, not the Flazh. Take a look next time you are on a Flazh-riddled ... er .. I mean Flazh-equipped machine. Trust me, it's a good link.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Now it is all starting to go a bit wrong....we need someone to blame. It is like Rats eating one of their own wounded....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2899823.stm

 

[its.fubar]

It is deeply unfortunate that it has taken so long that the world's press didn't realize or didn't want to know and I don't mean what's been happening in the last two weeks, the writing has been on the wall for some time now, what type of people are in the white house, as usual it is the Young inexperience soldiers that alternately must clean up their mess and probably pay a high price doing it,when those who should pay the moral and political price go free With their normal arrogance.What I find so surprising is that so many people have been fooled or were looking the other way, not carrying what type of person having his track record is sitting in the white house by default.

 

[James]

You and Howell have been spoon-feeded by CNN and the like for too long.

Actually Fox News is the one that scares me the most.

 

[its.fubar]

You and Howell have been spoon-feeded by CNN and the like for too long.

Actually Fox News is the one that scares me the most.

You are quite correct,It is nothing unusual when a news agency wishes to produce a program on the lines of how they wish the world to be,it makes me think of another time in American history when they had a different type of sensational hunter that of course was "Joe Mccarthy" he also didn't get anything right, but did do a lot of damage to many people, unfortunately people really do have short memories.

 

[Platform]

A new TV star has emerged from this grievous insanity...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=12821265&method=full&siteid=50143

 

[honold]

http://www.operationaccountability.com/

see the black knight bit lol

 

[Platform]

Yes, he's now being called "Comical Ali" by some (as opposed to "Chemical Ali")...

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-12283444,00.html

 

[Clocker]

i

presuming of course that thay want to be liberated.

I rest my case:
http://www.clickondetroit.com/det/news/stories/news-210086120030409-110436.html

Snippet here:

DEARBORN, Mich.-- As word spread of the statue of Saddam Hussein toppling over in Baghdad, Iraq, Wednesday, people filled the streets of Dearborn, one of the largest Arab-American populations in the United States.....

Another good perspective on life in Iraq
http://www3.oakland.edu/oakland/newsinfo/viewdetail.asp?ID=1228

I think all those idiotic celebrities and defeatist politicians (as well as the French, Russians, Canadians, and everybody else who would rather just sit on the sidelines and let the people of Iraq suffer while they profit) have just been proven wrong.

 

[Jake the Dog]

all it takes is a couple of photos and articles, presented by your own biased media, and your totally convinced. fair enough, it works for you.

me on the other hand; I'll wait to see what those nations, that have managed to stay completely outside of this, have to report before I'm comfortable to make up my own mind.

 

[Tea]

Fair dinkum, I'm surprised that you are persuaded by such shallow evidence, Clocker. I certainly hope you insist on a more rigourous standard of proof when you are enginering a suspension design.

There have been lots of examples of the Iraquis displaying bitter resentment of the invaders too - which you have either chosen to ignore, or else not even been made aware of because, frankly, your media organisations are amongst the worst in the world.

Right now, it's a pitfully easy trick to pull to show some cheering people (or some angry people), and you will reassure the already-convinced, and persuade a certain proportion of hoplessly ignorant couch potatos that the invasion was Justice Incarnate. (Or Evil Incarnate, of course, depending on which particular film clips you decide to show.)

Anyone with even the slightest knowledge of history knows that invading forces are always greeted with flowers and celebrations, just as they are always greeted with fear and hate. Imaging the Republican Guard marching back into Bagdad next Tuesday. What would happen? Why, the people would be out with flowers for them. The bottom line, Clocker, is that some people can always be relied on to curry favour with any invading force. It is, after all, the smart thing to do if you want to be liked, trusted, fed, or not shot.

The Iraqis may very well be glad to be rid of Saddam - hell, I sure would be - but there just ain't any hard evidence yet. It's just plain foolish to think that there is, or indeed that there will be or can be for quite some time yet. Come back in 6 to 12 months. Then we will be in a position to make judgements.

When you start believing in your own publicity, you have a major psychological problem.

 

[The Giver]

Sour grapes anyone? There's plenty going around.

 

[Cliptin]

The Iraqis may very well be glad to be rid of Saddam - hell, I sure would be - but there just ain't any hard evidence yet. It's just plain foolish to think that there is, or indeed that there will be or can be for quite some time yet. Come back in 6 to 12 months. Then we will be in a position to make judgements.

And what would a positive outcome look like. How could you identify it with the deafening screams of "puppet government" from naysayers ringing the ears.

When you start believing in your own publicity, you have a major psychological problem.

Do tell. Speaking from experience no doubt.

 

[Tea]

Nothing to do with sour grapes. I SAID wait and see and I MEANT wait and see. Your accusation is both moronic and offensive.

 

[Tea]

A positive outcome, Cliptin, will look like a reasonably stable government, with an economy that appears to be recovering (as far as may be expected), with a decently low level of violence and dissent (as measured by rebellions, Mafia style hits, and so on), and no evidence of government repression of the Latin American dictatorship style. If you've got that in, say, six months time, then you can confidently claim that you have general support among the people.

I'm actually feeling quite optimistic about the chances of that at present. I really think it might happen. But "think it might happen" and "say it has happened already - these are two very different things. Only a complete fool calls the outcome of a game when we haven't even reached half time yet.

 

[The Giver]

Nothing to do with sour grapes. I SAID wait and see and I MEANT wait and see. Your accusation is both moronic and offensive.

LOL. And I suppose your prior post was simply "telling it like it is" while mine was "moronic and offensive" huh?

 

[Tea]

Yes.

 

[The Giver]

Any objective observer of the events in Baghdad would conclude that the celebrations we saw in the streets were genuine - not staged. Yes, much remains to be accomplished before the entire affair can be put into proper perspective. But the smiles on those faces and the spontaneous dancing the streets in Saddam City yesterday were enough to have made the war effort and sacrifice in American lives worthwhile from an American point of view. It's that celebration of freedom and the appreciation and gratitude shown the American forces which was such a pleasant surprise and breath of fresh air.

 

[time]

No, I don't think so Giver.

I, like Tea, am slightly alarmed that you and other intelligent people here have apparently forgotten the moral dilemma that confronted The World going into this conflict.

No-one, not even Blind Freddy, ever doubted that the US could crush the shattered remains of Iraq's military. Well okay, the US propaganda machine was busy feeding the line that there might be REAL OPPOSITION in this so-called "war", but surely no-one here was thick enough to believe that?

But then, wasn't that the supposed purpose for the invasion: that Iraq presented a threat to the rest of the world, and the US in particular?

There's still hope that the Iraqi armed forces accounted for more coalition casualties than the coalition itself. And maybe any day now, some WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION (no, not the ones the US dropped) will be found, and that will somehow justify this imperial invasion of a poverty-stricken nation. I notice that US companies in particular can't wait for the opportunity to "invest" in Iraq.

But proponents don't even begin to understand what the ramifications of this stupid act are. If the war alone costs $130 billion, how much will reconstruction cost? Or will the Iraqis have to pay for that with oil?

What sort of precedent does this set? A bloody big one, that's what. China vs Taiwan, any day now. The odds on North Korea taking out the entire peninsula just shortened dramatically. Of course, the obvious defense tactic for every nation is to acquire nuclear weapons ASAP.

I haven't seen anything to disprove the notion that a large percentage of US citizens actually believe, or are profoundly influenced by, what comes out of Hollywood. They think that appeasement is a waste of time and that might (or right) will always win through. All this, in the face of the reality of September 11 (which BTW, was primarily a symbolic attack; their priority was not how many people they could kill - that can be achieved far more efficiently if anyone is desperate enough to try).

In any society, there are leaders and followers. The vast majority of the human race need to be led. They need to believe in a leader, to have faith; whether it be George W Bush or Saddam Hussein. Leaders who actually lead are wary of any who aren't followers - these are a threat that must be discredited.

People should ask themselves, "Am I a leader or a follower? Can I draw my own conclusions, or am I merely regurgitating what others have decided for me?"

 

[Clocker]

all it takes is a couple of photos and articles, presented by your own biased media, and your totally convinced. fair enough, it works for you.

me on the other hand; I'll wait to see what those nations, that have managed to stay completely outside of this, have to report before I'm comfortable to make up my own mind.

All hail all knowing and wise Jake {lol}. I'm most convinced by what the people in my own community are saying. I know those people in Dearborn (reference article above). I also live in a community that has the 2nd highest concentration of Chaldean Americans in the United States (next to Dearborn). Plus, if anything, the press (especially newspaper) is biased against Mr. Bush so I don't know where you're coming from with that. We're constantly hearing about friendly fire incidents and the occasional civilian casuality (a small price given the horrific deeds Saddam would be doing while in power). Is that a press which is biased for the war?

I'm going based on what people tell me, not what I hear from the press. The press merely confirms what I'm hearing from real people I know. The Iraqi people are happy to get rid of Saddam and they are welcoming us because of the oppression they have been living under.

Many of you would have rathered for the Iraqi people to suffer and avoid interfering/dealing with the dealings of the 'soverign nation of Iraq' and their corrupt dictatorship. You would have rathered that Saddam laugh in the face of the United Nations because they could not pull their fingers our of their asses long enough to smell what stinks in Iraq. To all you "morons" out there who thought the Iraqi people didn't want to be liberated, your order of crow is ready along with your sour grapes for desert.

How it all turns out in the end remains to be seen, but, much of that will be in the hands of the Iraqi people rather than that corrupt sonofabitch Saddam and his band of thugs. Of course, the USA will be there to help in the reconstruction. I hope GWB tells France, Germany, and the other opposion leaders who want to now step in to ‘play a large role’ to go stick it where the sun doesn’t shine.

C

 

[time]

Hmmm, underestimated the posting activity. My initial statement was in response to The Giver crying "Sour Grapes".

But while I'm at it, if you think 20 or so people milling about watching a couple of young turks trying to pull a statue down - all the while guarded by a US tank - is representative of the 20+ million citizens of Iraq, then I've got this bridge I'm sure would interest you ...