mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
CS2 is available for a much cheaper price; is CS3 worth the premium? (please don't tell me to torrent it; I already know that and won't!)
Is Photoshop CS3 worth the add'l $
- Thread starter mubs
- Start date
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
CS3 doesn't seem to be all that much better than CS2. What is the difference in price? CS3 is nice because you can get a package that includes all the old Macromedia products that work a bit better with Adobe products. That probably doesn't matter to you if all you need is Photoshop.
CS3 is not nice because it is a royal pain in the ass to install on Server 2003, my OS of choice.
I also don't think CS2 will install on Vista very easily. Maybe with MS Application Verifier you could make it work. CS3 will install on Vista.
Here's a list of new features that CS3 has if you haven't seen it already.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Thanks, Tim. CS2 can be had for ~ $285; CS3 is ~ $480. From your link, looks like it would be nice to have the new features of CS3. Anybody else have any advice?
mangyDOG
Learning Storage Performance
Get the cheaper one & wait for CS4, that might finally be 64bit compatible.
Cheers,
mangyDOG
Cheers,
mangyDOG
Tannin
Storage? I am Storage!
CS3 all the way. Absolute no-brainer.
The smart objects feature alone is probably worth the money for many people. Ever do something, then do some other thing, then realise you did the wrong amount or the wrong sort of something A? With CS3, you can go back and change action A without having to undo subsequent actions.
While still out of the 1990s, the interface is at least around 1997 standard, where the CS2 interface is circa 1988.
CS3 also has much improved selection tools: some of the "magic selection" tools really do work as advertised. The time you will save if you ever have to select complex-shaped foreground objects (e.g., hair, plumage) against a busy background will more than make up for the money you spend.
And remember: these words of praise are coming from someone who generally thinks Adobe products are complete bloated crap. I praise Adobe about as often as I agree with Merc re video cards - which is to say practically never. So I don't recommend CS3 lightly: coming from that mob of disgustingly overpriced bloatware merchants, it has to be good to get me (of all people) to recommend it.
But don't take my word for it, download a free 30-day fully-functional trial from Adobe and see for yourself.
The smart objects feature alone is probably worth the money for many people. Ever do something, then do some other thing, then realise you did the wrong amount or the wrong sort of something A? With CS3, you can go back and change action A without having to undo subsequent actions.
While still out of the 1990s, the interface is at least around 1997 standard, where the CS2 interface is circa 1988.
CS3 also has much improved selection tools: some of the "magic selection" tools really do work as advertised. The time you will save if you ever have to select complex-shaped foreground objects (e.g., hair, plumage) against a busy background will more than make up for the money you spend.
And remember: these words of praise are coming from someone who generally thinks Adobe products are complete bloated crap. I praise Adobe about as often as I agree with Merc re video cards - which is to say practically never. So I don't recommend CS3 lightly: coming from that mob of disgustingly overpriced bloatware merchants, it has to be good to get me (of all people) to recommend it.
But don't take my word for it, download a free 30-day fully-functional trial from Adobe and see for yourself.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Tannin, your comments mean a lot to me, thanks for the detailed analysis. CS3 it will be.
Tannin
Storage? I am Storage!
Mubs, different people will see things different ways - as witness Mangy Dog's comments - and note that the Mangy One is a smart cookie and a pretty serious photographer. You can download a 100% working copy completely free of charge here: https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=photoshop and try it yourself, on your machine, doing the things you do.
I should add that I did just that with CS2 and Elements ... er .... might have been Elements 5, maybe 6, can't remember ... and didn't think either one was good enough. CS2 had plenty of horsepower but the price of Photoshop is an absolute shocker and I just couldn't come at it. So I stuck with my (free with camera) Elements 2, suplemented by Bibble (quirky, rather buggy, but pretty good in its own peculiar way) and the truly dreadful Corel Paintshop Pro.
(I don't feel like writing a vast rant just now, so let's just say that Corel Paintshop Pro is one of those peculiar products that could be very good indeed, is almost very good indeed, would be very good indeed if they put me in charge of development for about 6 weeks (or, indeed, anyone else with half a brain), but, alas, the small flaws in it are crucial ones which make it just about unusable unless you are desperate, and I bitterly regret ever giving those scumbags any of my money.)
(Hefty sigh of relief as, by the skin of his big green teeth, Tannin narrowly avoids spending three hours delivering a huge rant.)
CS3 is still flawed, the performance sucks and the interface is terrible by the standards of this current century, but it's much, much better than CS2 was, and after three weeks using it I caved in and spent the money.
Enjoy!
I should add that I did just that with CS2 and Elements ... er .... might have been Elements 5, maybe 6, can't remember ... and didn't think either one was good enough. CS2 had plenty of horsepower but the price of Photoshop is an absolute shocker and I just couldn't come at it. So I stuck with my (free with camera) Elements 2, suplemented by Bibble (quirky, rather buggy, but pretty good in its own peculiar way) and the truly dreadful Corel Paintshop Pro.
(I don't feel like writing a vast rant just now, so let's just say that Corel Paintshop Pro is one of those peculiar products that could be very good indeed, is almost very good indeed, would be very good indeed if they put me in charge of development for about 6 weeks (or, indeed, anyone else with half a brain), but, alas, the small flaws in it are crucial ones which make it just about unusable unless you are desperate, and I bitterly regret ever giving those scumbags any of my money.)
(Hefty sigh of relief as, by the skin of his big green teeth, Tannin narrowly avoids spending three hours delivering a huge rant.)
CS3 is still flawed, the performance sucks and the interface is terrible by the standards of this current century, but it's much, much better than CS2 was, and after three weeks using it I caved in and spent the money.
Enjoy!
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Thanks Tannin. To tell you the truth, with age, my ability to teach myself new things have declined, so I presently use photo-ed progs to mainly crop and adjust brightness/contrast. I do need to learn more, though, and the idea is that if I'm going to, might as well go whole hog with the best.
I have had about 3 copies of PSP, (I think 7, 8, and 9) mainly because it is cheap to buy the OEM version. I also have Elements (version 4, I think) that I hardly use. As you say, it appears that these sw companies don't give a crap about the user interface and making things intuitive. Whatever "auto-correct" features they have produce such garish results that I don't use any of the auto-fix features.
Someday I need to know how to make photo montages. I have priceless photos of large groups of family - fortunately multiple shots of the same. In photo 1, persons x & y have their eyes closed; in photo 2, persons a & b have their eyes closed. I want to be able to end up with a photo where everyone is awake! There are also old photos that I have scanned that need restoring. While these may be trivial for many of you, they are at present tough for me to do, but I want to do them myself, even if it takes me 10x the time that a pro would take. Some day I'll get there!
I have had about 3 copies of PSP, (I think 7, 8, and 9) mainly because it is cheap to buy the OEM version. I also have Elements (version 4, I think) that I hardly use. As you say, it appears that these sw companies don't give a crap about the user interface and making things intuitive. Whatever "auto-correct" features they have produce such garish results that I don't use any of the auto-fix features.
Someday I need to know how to make photo montages. I have priceless photos of large groups of family - fortunately multiple shots of the same. In photo 1, persons x & y have their eyes closed; in photo 2, persons a & b have their eyes closed. I want to be able to end up with a photo where everyone is awake! There are also old photos that I have scanned that need restoring. While these may be trivial for many of you, they are at present tough for me to do, but I want to do them myself, even if it takes me 10x the time that a pro would take. Some day I'll get there!
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I'm going to offer a different opinion:
Adobe software pisses me off. It costs a lot of money, is generally obnoxious to support, has terrible interfaces, tends not to offer much value for your regular upgrade dollar, and for that matter, Adobe has foisted some really awful software off on just about every Windows desktop on the planet in the form of the criminally bad Acrobat and Flash.
I want Adobe to not exist.
I say pirate their software, if you absolutely must have it. Hell, I'll do it for you. Every warez kiddy in the world has the latest copy of everything Adobe makes anyway, and it's not like you're going to be using it for professional work.
Adobe shouldn't be making money on you. If I had my way, they wouldn't be making any money at all. They are not as bad as, say, Symantec, but there are plenty of other ways to edit a picture that don't require a $500 Adobe tax.
Adobe software pisses me off. It costs a lot of money, is generally obnoxious to support, has terrible interfaces, tends not to offer much value for your regular upgrade dollar, and for that matter, Adobe has foisted some really awful software off on just about every Windows desktop on the planet in the form of the criminally bad Acrobat and Flash.
I want Adobe to not exist.
I say pirate their software, if you absolutely must have it. Hell, I'll do it for you. Every warez kiddy in the world has the latest copy of everything Adobe makes anyway, and it's not like you're going to be using it for professional work.
Adobe shouldn't be making money on you. If I had my way, they wouldn't be making any money at all. They are not as bad as, say, Symantec, but there are plenty of other ways to edit a picture that don't require a $500 Adobe tax.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Merc, I agree they're awful. But I have a choice not to use their sw; they're not holding a gun to my head. If I still want to use their sw, then I should pay for it. How much is a different question.
Do I have pirated stuff (sw, music)? Yes, some. Do I use it? No. I have it to try it out. If I want it, I buy a copy. A couple of years ago a swell guy here at SF provided me with a copy of Photoshop (was either 7 or CS). I tried it out for a week and then uninstalled it; just couldn't use it knowing I hadn't paid for it.
My reasons are a bit different than most people. My father made money out of his creative abilities. He raised his kids, put all (but one that didn't want to) through college, helped them get established in life. To this day, we (his family) enjoy the fruits of his hard work.
In the late seventies, with advances in technology, the pirating of his work began. Bootleg copies were being sold before the real thing was even available in channels. How much his income was hit, we don't know. But it was not insubstantial.
Coming from this background, I think it would be hypocritical of me to pirate. If I dislike a product strongly enough, I should stay away from it. If I want it badly enough, I should pay for it. Wanting it and not having the ability to pay is not a licence to pirate.
I certainly don't expect others to live by my beliefs, but I do have to live within my own value system.
I've tried to find an older version I could buy cheap and use it to upgrade to PS CS3, but there seem to be no decent place selling older qualifying versions cheap. Don't care to try fleabay. There's lots of shady places claiming to sell CS3 for cheap. No point spending $300 and having problems getting it to activate or fighting to get my money back.
I struggle at times between buying an Academic version and the regular version. It's a gray area. The sw maker does get my money, though not as much as a regular version. Maybe I could live with that. In this case, the difference between Academic and retail PS CS3 is $100; I'll just pay the difference and get the retail for $600.
It's a lot of money (for me), so I'll probably not upgrade for a very long time.
Do I have pirated stuff (sw, music)? Yes, some. Do I use it? No. I have it to try it out. If I want it, I buy a copy. A couple of years ago a swell guy here at SF provided me with a copy of Photoshop (was either 7 or CS). I tried it out for a week and then uninstalled it; just couldn't use it knowing I hadn't paid for it.
My reasons are a bit different than most people. My father made money out of his creative abilities. He raised his kids, put all (but one that didn't want to) through college, helped them get established in life. To this day, we (his family) enjoy the fruits of his hard work.
In the late seventies, with advances in technology, the pirating of his work began. Bootleg copies were being sold before the real thing was even available in channels. How much his income was hit, we don't know. But it was not insubstantial.
Coming from this background, I think it would be hypocritical of me to pirate. If I dislike a product strongly enough, I should stay away from it. If I want it badly enough, I should pay for it. Wanting it and not having the ability to pay is not a licence to pirate.
I certainly don't expect others to live by my beliefs, but I do have to live within my own value system.
I've tried to find an older version I could buy cheap and use it to upgrade to PS CS3, but there seem to be no decent place selling older qualifying versions cheap. Don't care to try fleabay. There's lots of shady places claiming to sell CS3 for cheap. No point spending $300 and having problems getting it to activate or fighting to get my money back.
I struggle at times between buying an Academic version and the regular version. It's a gray area. The sw maker does get my money, though not as much as a regular version. Maybe I could live with that. In this case, the difference between Academic and retail PS CS3 is $100; I'll just pay the difference and get the retail for $600.
It's a lot of money (for me), so I'll probably not upgrade for a very long time.
ddrueding
Fixture
I just wish they would do what Maya does. If you aren't profiting from their software, you can use it for free.
I'd be OK using the educational package (or less) if I wasn't profiting from it. As soon as I begin to use software in a professional capacity, or profit from it in any way, I do buy it.
I'd be OK using the educational package (or less) if I wasn't profiting from it. As soon as I begin to use software in a professional capacity, or profit from it in any way, I do buy it.
Tannin
Storage? I am Storage!
Just so. I agree entirely. But I'll add one more thing, which is, when you think about it, the worst thing about Adobe: this is their determination to see to it that no competitive product ever threatens their monopoly.
(What evidence do I have that there is some sort of Adobe conspiracy to maintain their picture editing monopoly? Direct evidence: none. But we can detect very powerful indiret evidence from the simple fact that, despite making a product as bad as Photoshop for so many years, a product that is crying out desperately to be steamrollered into market oblivion by a faster, better designed professional-grade photo editor - and I have green things growing in the back of my fridge that move faster than Photoshop, and I've seen better user interface designs on the footpath outside nightclubs on Sunday mornings - despite all this, it continues to be the only product in the entire market segment. One assumes that Adobe work hard to keep it that way by buying out any promising competitor before it threatens their cash cow. (Remind you of anyone? I'm thinking, in particular, of Adaptec.) For a while there, it looked as though Jasc's Paintshop Pro was going to mature into a genuine Photoshop killer ... but then Corel bought it and (one assumes) Adobe very sensibly decided that they didn't need to buy out or sabotage PSP because Corel were undoubtedly about to do it for them.)
Will Rickards
Storage Is My Life
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Offering to do it isn't a crime.
There is a theory that Adobe, Autodesk and for that matter Microsoft tolerate and even encourage a certain level of piracy so that budding professionals use their tools while they're learning and therefore ask for those tools when they go out and get jobs.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Can anybody suggest a couple of good books for a Photoshop beginner? One that will get me started and one that will continue with the more intricate stuff? Thanks.
ddrueding
Fixture
Nope. I've just googled for how do to something I needed. I've generally found that trying to learn all of something is counter-productive. Start with the program in front of you and a task to perform, and go from there.
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
I'll test this for you if you can tell me the best way to test it.
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
The task manager? No, it doesn't I'm wondering if my system is configured correctly for quad CPUs. I can't even get 2 of the cores to max out in Photoshop.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
There's no configuration involved. Windows either has a multiprocessor HAL or it doesn't.
ddrueding
Fixture
I can max both my cores without much trouble. HDR/Photomerge are the easiest ways to do it in my experience.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Recoding a DVD will cause all CPUs to redline on my C2Q. Otherwise, I have to be doing something ridiculous like playing City of Heroes (uses two cores) and running virus scans inside a pair of virtual machines.
e_dawg
Storage Freak
Scott Kelby's The Abobe Photoshop CS3 Book for Digital Photographers is a good general book to start with, but what I really like and highly recommend is Katrin Eismann's Photoshop Restoration & Retouching.
I think most people who are experienced at editing photos already intuitively do what Katrin teaches in this book, but I think it should be required reading for anyone getting into photo editing and using Photoshop to do it. It would also speak to a lot of what you're trying to do with restoring old photos and swapping heads or other elements in/out of pictures.
She also wrote a similar book called Photoshop Masking and Compositing, which promises to be a good read as well, and probably speaks to the compositing aspect of what you want to do in a fair amount of detail. I would like to read it myself if I could find a good chunk of free time.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Thanks, e_dawg!