LED flashlights

[Handruin]

Sorry for not replying to this earlier...

I have a two coworkers who bought some of the cheap Chinese made zooming lights. One bought an 18650 variant. The other a single AA. They're both happy with them. I've played with them a little. Personally, I probably wouldn't buy them, but I'm much more of a demanding flashlight "snob" than they are. They're decent for the price and the zoom is nice, but the tint of the beam and the build quality of the lights isn't what I'm after. I'd rather pay more and have a very nice light even if I have to spend many times more.

The PD35 requires you to make a commitment to 18650 batteries and an appropriate charger. I'm sure it's a nice light. I haven't seen or used one myself though. In 18650 land I'm a fan of buying a P60 host like a Solarforce L2P host and buying a custom made LED drop-in for it like one of these (also sold through the forum) or these.

My go to light these days is a blue L2P with a 4500K 92CRI Nichia 219 drop-in from Nailbender.

Thanks for the feedback on this. After searching a bit I came across this flashlight with a Cree bulb. It's not the same bulb used in the PD35 buy for the money I could buy 8 of these:

DB POWER WF 501b Cree Xml T6 3 Mode Cree Led Flashlight 900 Lumens
http://amzn.com/B0050DX6VM

What is a good battery brand and charger for 18650? I've seen so many kinds at various websites it's a bit overwhelming.

 

[Stereodude]

Thanks for the feedback on this. After searching a bit I came across this flashlight with a Cree bulb. It's not the same bulb used in the PD35 buy for the money I could buy 8 of these:

DB POWER WF 501b Cree Xml T6 3 Mode Cree Led Flashlight 900 Lumens
http://amzn.com/B0050DX6VM

What is a good battery brand and charger for 18650? I've seen so many kinds at various websites it's a bit overwhelming.

FWIW, I wouldn't expect that flashlight to be anywhere near comparable to the PD35.

I like the KeepPower protected 18650 cells that are built around a Panasonic 3400mAh 18650 cell. There are cheaper protected 18650 cells built around the same Panasonic 3400mAh cells, but they have more losses in the protection circuit. I just picked up another 10 of these a few days ago from E2 Field Gear. They're $11.80 each after 20% coupon code. I also should point out that protected 3400mAh 18650 tend to be a little oversized in diameter and length and don't fit in all lights that claim 18650 support. HKJ has done great work reviewing and characterizing various Li-Ion batteries here. He also has individual reviews here.

On the charger, It's a bit less clear. There are lots of cheap Li-Ion battery chargers that barely charge a Li-Ion in an acceptable way to some that don't. I use a $100+ iCharger 206B that is an RC pack charger. I've made up some battery holders that hold multiple 18650 cells in series and charge them like they're a multi-cell RC pack. If you want a Li-Ion charger that works with individual cells I'd probably recommend one of these Xtar chargers HKJ reviewed: Xtar SP2, Xtar VP1, or Xtar WP2s depending on what you want to spend, how quickly you want to charge, and how many batteries you want to charge at once.

 

[mubs]

After much research and thought, I have come to the conclusion that one needs four flashlights.

1) A keychain light to be the EDC. I have ordered the Fenix E05. Single brightness of 27 lumens, supposed to be floody, which I wanted, and AAA battery. Not entirely happy with the twist switch, but at this size, it's what one gets. I might add a Fenix LD01 R4 as well; same battery, 72/26/3 lumens (I like that there is a low as well as a hiugh mode in addition to the mid brightness), 9 mm longer.

2) A pocket flashlight to be carried when the need arises; a night outdoor event, etc. I will order the Zebralight SC52w one of these days from a US retailer. This is the neutral color version. 280/50/2.7 lumens and numerous brightness levels in-between, all from a single AA battery. 78 x 23.6 mm. Floody, as I like a short range light to be.

3) A powerful handheld. This is the one I will probably use the least. Numerous options here. I'd prefer a AA based model, but may have to settle for a double CR123. This needs to have a good mix of throw and spill, or come with a flat diffuser (not the stupid dunce-hat cone-type diffuser that so many mfrs seem to like). Still in research mode, to be purchased from the US.

4) A headlamp. Already ordered the Fenix HL21. It is supposed to have a good mix of throw and spill, plus comes with a flat diffuser. Single AA, 97/47/3 lumens, 41 gms without battery.

Comments, critiques, suggestions welcome! Thanks for reading.

 

[ddrueding]

Nice summary mubs. I don't have much need for a light at all, but one in the car would be a good idea. I think it should be a headlamp so I can do whatever I need to do, and I think it should work 99% of the time after being ignored for year(s). And under $75 wouldn't be a bad idea either.

The "charged forever" feature seems to be the tough one. Would an eneloop be the closest? How about one that can charge easily and quickly from the car or a USB port on a laptop?

 

[P5-133XL]

You also need a battery operated light capable of dimly lighting a room for long time periods when the power goes out being that candles are inherently unsafe.

 

[mubs]

DD: The only "charged forever" you will find are Lithium primaries; in AAA, AA and CR123 sizes. If you put one after checking the date on the wrapping, it is almost certain to have juice till that date. Eneloops would be a close second because of the low self-discharge, but are not as dependable as the primary Lithiums. Some make universal chargers (18650, NiMH chemistry) for different sizes (the negative pole is sprung and can be stretched to accommodate a longer battery). These work on 110-230 VAC and also come with a separate cable to plug into the car lighter socket. A few come with a USB cable and the cigarette-lighter socket thingy separate, so you can plug the USB cable into a laptop. One example in the Nitecore Intellicharger i2. This is the new version, which fixes some bugs/flaws in version 1. Maybe SD can guide you better on these.

P5, point well made. One of the things I considered in selecting my flashlights is a low mode. Most certainly my headlamp and pocket FLs have / will have it. My current keychain FL does not have it, but the LD01 does. Some high power flashlights don't //come with a low option (lowest being ~ 50 lumens, which is too bright for the purposes you mention). But there are other high power FLs that have that option:

Nitecore P25: 2 x CR123, 860 / 550 / 180 / 50 / 2 lumens

Fenix PD32 Ultra Edition with Neutral color LED: 2 x CR123, 740 / 400 / 140 / 40 / 9 lumens

Nitecore EA8/EA8W: 8xAA, 900 / 590 / 180 / 50 / 2 lumens

etc.

Most can be used with an optional diffuser to light up the room like a candle does instead of shooting out a pencil beam.

 

[Howell]

The biggest problem I have found with the car bound fl is that the batteries tend to leak. You'd have to have a regular maintenance cycle to make sure they haven't leaked and at that point you might as well charge them. Storing the batteries separate from the light at least preserves the light but I wish I could find a better way.

 

[Stereodude]

Lithium primary batteries don't leak (as far as I know). Neither do Eneloops.

 

[Stereodude]

Remember folks, don't buy crappy tint flashlights. In that vein, this (MT-G2) and this (6 x Nichia 219) should be nice additions to flashlight collections everywhere.

 

[mubs]

My Fenix E05 keychain FL and HL21 Headlamp arrived yesterday - some 4-5 days late because of holidays here and stupid Blue Dart didn't deliver (contrast that with the local Amazon wannabe that delivered some items on Sunday morning - a day equivalent to Christmas in the Western hemisphere!).

Totally, completely blown away by the E05. It is as long as my pinky, and probably as thick as my ring finger. Totally unobtrusive on the keychain. Easily equals a $3 big-box store multi-led 3-AAA bulky FL in brightness, and surpasses it immensely in the color of the light and the evenness of the beam. Design and build quality is superb. Twist action on the switch is not loose, and can easily be done with one hand (I have big hands and small objects are difficult to manipulate one-handed). The only downside is that it has a single brightness level. But more levels would have complicated operation and detracted from the USP of a device like this. Wifey and daughter already want one each for their keychains. I'll probably buy a couple more for myself. Additional units will be purchased in the US at a lower price. Every keychain should have one! I'll also certainly buy the LD01 that is almost the same size as the E05, but has multiple brightness levels, including a 3-lumen mode.

Headlamp has nice spill, and with the included tiny diffuser that can be fixed to the lamp and then flipped up (no diff) or down (diff on), the beam is nice and even. Color rendition is pretty good too. Haven't tried it out in the basement to check my car oil level, tyre pressure etc. which is why I bought it. Will do in a couple of days.

Overall, extremely impressed with the design, quality, fit and finish of these Fenix products.

 

[mubs]

Remember folks, don't buy crappy tint flashlights. In that vein, this (MT-G2) and this (6 x Nichia 219) should be nice additions to flashlight collections everywhere.

SD, for my other two FLs, I've shortlisted the Zebralight SC52w and Nitecore EA8W, both neutral tint. Any comments?

Sheesh, man, the ones you linked to are monster FLs!

 

[Stereodude]

SD, for my other two FLs, I've shortlisted the Zebralight SC52w and Nitecore EA8W, both neutral tint. Any comments?

The Zebralight looks okay. I don't have any experience with their lights. I do have a Nitecore EA8 cool white. Aside from the cold tint, my opinion is that the beam is a little too focused unless you're really trying to light up really distant objects outside. Indoors or for quasi close use it's just too focused. I prefer my Sunwayman D40A for a multi AA light. IMHO the beam profile is more usable. I'm not a fan of most "neutral" tint lights either because they tend to be warmer than I want in a flashlight. I like Cree's that are right around 5000k. Cool white tends to be ~6500k, and "neutral" often ends up 3500-4000k with a lot of flashlights. Anyhow...

Sheesh, man, the ones you linked to are monster FLs!

You should see my modified BTU Shocker. :mrgrn:

 

[Stereodude]

SD, for my other two FLs, I've shortlisted the Zebralight SC52w and Nitecore EA8W, both neutral tint. Any comments?

The Zebralight looks okay. I don't have any experience with their lights. I do have a Nitecore EA8 cool white. Aside from the cold tint, my opinion is that the beam is a little too focused unless you're really trying to light up really distant objects outside. Indoors or for quasi close use it's just too focused. I prefer my Sunwayman D40A for a multi AA light. IMHO the beam profile is more usable. I'm not a fan of most "neutral" tint lights either because they tend to be warmer than I want in a flashlight. I like Cree's that are right around 5000k. Cool white tends to be ~6500k, and "neutral" often ends up 3500-4000k with a lot of flashlights. Anyhow...

Sheesh, man, the ones you linked to are monster FLs!

You should see my modified BTU Shocker. :mrgrn:

 

[time]

I received the two Zebralight floody headlamps (high CRI AA and 18650).

The AA model is a bare LED with a reflector and comes with a pocket clip. As expected, it's not very bright (140 lumens) and is really only suitable for night-time use. But it's amazingly lightweight (with an Eneloop) and the 4000K illumination is beautiful - this would be the best color rendition of of any non-incandescent lamp I've managed to get so far. I'm hoping to keep it.

Also as expected, the 18650 model is a beast. Probably twice the weight and I'm a little concerned about how hot it gets on high (970 lumens), given it's going to be strapped to someone's forehead. I amused myself by turning off the house lights and sitting it up high to light up the family room and corridor. It relies on a diffuser to achieve the floody beam and is completely unsuitable for a group situation - you'll blind everyone else when you look at them. And the color rendition (at 4400K) is weak compared to the H502C, but it's still way above average for an LED flashlight.

I could understand Stereodude's complaint if he was talking about "warm white" - it can mean 3000K color temperature or worse, which I hate - but I'm perfectly satisfied with the 4000K and 4400K bins that Zebralight has supplied. Personally, I'm glad to see the back of 6500K and up flashlights. In a dark situation, the blue tint is just too much for me.

 

[Stereodude]

It seems like a lot of manufacturers try to pass off warm as neutral. 3000k isn't neutral.

 

[jtr1962]

I'm not a fan of most "neutral" tint lights either because they tend to be warmer than I want in a flashlight. I like Cree's that are right around 5000k. Cool white tends to be ~6500k, and "neutral" often ends up 3500-4000k with a lot of flashlights. Anyhow...

Same here. 4500K to 5000K is a good neutral tint for me. I really don't want anything warmer than that in a flashlight (or any other type of light for that matter). I love the high-CRI Nichia 219s in 4500K (5000K would be better but it doesn't seem to be available).

 

[mubs]

Thanks SD, I'll check out the Sunawaymans.

Problem is most mfrs don't tell you the color temp of the LED they use. One man's neutral is another man's yellow, etc. There are cribs that Fenix misrepresents the tint by calling them neutral. But perhaps neutral is better than blue, green or purple tints. Flashaholics are rare here (looks like I'm turning into one) and I can't to afford to buy many to test them for myself. The popular models have well written reviews, but the newer and less known ones don't.

 

[Stereodude]

In that vein, this (MT-G2) and this (6 x Nichia 219) should be nice additions to flashlight collections everywhere.

I got my two today. They're not as ridiculously bright as the BTU shocker, but they induce a big smile when turned on. The Nichia 219 powered MX25L3C has the nicest tint, just like the P60 drop-in I have with the same 219 4500k high CRI LED. The MT-G2 powered MX25L3 has a nice tint too. It's a little cooler than the Nichia 219s, and my 5000k XM-L2's in the modified BTU Shocker, but it's not the cold sterile cool white most LED flashlights have.

 

[mubs]

Do these things come on sale around Thanksgiving / Christmas? Any favorite vendors?

 

[P5-133XL]

Yes, but a whole bunch of them that are reasonable and cheap are shipped from China and take a month to arrive.

 

[mubs]

Thanks P5.

When you say that, I presume you mean Asian web sites like DealExtreme (dx.com), Fasttech.com, Banggood.com? I can wait till mid-Jan for them to arrive :-D

My bro will visit from the US end Jan and he's going to be my mule.

I've noticed that their prices are the cheapest. But I want genuine stuff, not knock-offs, and don't want any fraud with my credit card.

Have you purchased from them?

 

[P5-133XL]

Nope, just read reviews...

 

[Stereodude]

Do these things come on sale around Thanksgiving / Christmas? Any favorite vendors?

I would say that's not too likely (in terms of the light you want to have a sizable discount).

 

[mubs]

Thanks guys.

 

[LunarMist]

I'm looking for a good 1xAA light with good throw and not finding much. It appears that the floody XM-L LEDs and tiny reflectors are all the rage. Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[ddrueding]

Remember folks, don't buy crappy tint flashlights. In that vein, this (MT-G2) and this (6 x Nichia 219) should be nice additions to flashlight collections everywhere.

Based only on your recommendation, I picked up the EagleTac MX25L3. Fantastic light. The brightness is utterly absurd, even compared to my 1700 lumen bike light.

 

[Stereodude]

You got the MT-G2 one I take it? What 18650 cells are you using?

 

[ddrueding]

You got the MT-G2 one I take it? What 18650 cells are you using?

Yup. At the moment I'm using the EagleTac brand. They aren't the first ones I bought, but the others didn't have a bump on the positive contact and didn't work with the light. I'm currently considering modifications to the cells to allow them to work.

 

[mubs]

I'm looking for a good 1xAA light with good throw and not finding much. It appears that the floody XM-L LEDs and tiny reflectors are all the rage. Any ideas? Thanks.

I raided the data I have collected for my own use, and have eliminated any that are known to be floody. The ones below are 1xAA, and may or may not be floody; you'll have to do a quick check of reviews.

Fenix LD10 XP-G R5
Fenix LD15 XP-E R4

L3 Illumination L10 Colors Nichia 219
L3 Illumination L10 Black Cree XPG2
L3 Illumination L10 Colors Cree XPG2

Nitecore EA1
Nitecore MT1A
Nitecore SRT3

Sunwayman C15A (CREE XM-L2)
Sunwayman S10A
Sunwayman R10A
Sunwayman R15A

I didn't gather data on EagleTac flashlights. You may want to check them out too.

 

[mubs]

The problem with the EagleTac MX25L3 is that it uses 3 x 18650 batteries. If you have another flashlight that uses a single 18650, then you're good. Otherwise it's kind of odd.

Which 18650 charger do you guys use / recommended?

 

[Stereodude]

The problem with the EagleTac MX25L3 is that it uses 3 x 18650 batteries. If you have another flashlight that uses a single 18650, then you're good. Otherwise it's kind of odd.

Which 18650 charger do you guys use / recommended?

I use a iCharger 206b. I posted some thoughts on chargers here.

 

[ddrueding]

I got the Nitecore Intellicharger i4 specifically because it can charge 3 batteries without issue.

 

[mubs]

Thanks SD, I forgot you had written about them earlier in the thread. I think I'll pass on 18650 for now; it gets expensive, and getting them delivered to me would be a pain. I haven't read the latest on TSA's rules for transporting primary and rechargeable LI batteries.

I've finalized on my flashlights. I have stayed with AAA and AA flashlights because I have enough Eneloops in both sizes and a good Maha Charger (C9000) for them.

I already have the Fenix HL21 headlamp; it serves my needs adequately. I think for me, it is a pretty good trade-off between weight, size and performance.

I also have the Fenix E05 as my keychain FL. Wifey and daughter want one each, so I'll be ordering two more of these.

I'm also going to get the Fenix E01 and LD01, and the Sunwayman R02A for myself. The E01 because it's lower power than the E05 and I may want to use it at night. The LD01 as an alternate to the E05. The Sunwayman to keep on the nightstand at bed. It has a simpler interface than the LD01 that will be easier to use when I'm groggy and need to go to the bathroom to pee in the night, and it goes lower than the E01 which is single mode. All these use 1 x AAA.

My pocket FL is going to be the Zebralight SC52W Neutral. There are reports of the tint lottery with this one, if you lose you end up with a green tint. I'll order from E2 Field Gear. Mike is supposed to be a cool guy, and I'll request a non-green one, though how he's going to check that without opening the package I don't know. This FL uses 1 x AA.

My power (don't laugh, guys, it's enough for me for now!) FL is going to be the Sunwayman D40A. I'll add a Nitecore NFD40 Diffuser to this to use when I need strong diffused lighting. I had the most problems picking this. Ultimately decided on this one cause it uses 4xAA, and I have enough Eneloops for it. A bit less power on continuous than I wanted, but it may be enough. Maybe next year I'll follow in DD's footsteps and get that EagleTac monster and the necessary 18650 batteries and charger at that time.

If anybody wants to pick holes in my choices, I'm all ears.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Stereodude]

...but the others didn't have a bump on the positive contact and didn't work with the light. I'm currently considering modifications to the cells to allow them to work.

Those sound like unprotected 18650s which I would definitely not recommend using in a light like the MX25L3.

 

[Stereodude]

If anybody wants to pick holes in my choices, I'm all ears.

Those seem like good choices.

 

[mubs]

Thanks SD.

I think those EagleTac 18650 batteries are protected; I'd be pretty darn surprised if Eagletac was releasing unprotected batteries this powerful. Oddly, their website has no link for accessories (where I'd think batteries would be), and no search function. Some of the 10 reviews on AMZ's product page that DD linked to say the batteries are protected.

Even a noob like me knows to stay away from unprotected Li-Ions! There is a write-up on CPF about a guy whose hand was almost blown away when his cells blew up. I'm sure the CPF regulars like SD and JTR know about this one.

 

[ddrueding]

The EagleTac are protected, the first ones I got weren't. They will be going in other applications. I'm thinking of modifying some of my R.A.T. 9 mice to use them.

 

[jtr1962]

Even a noob like me knows to stay away from unprotected Li-Ions! There is a write-up on CPF about a guy whose hand was almost blown away when his cells blew up. I'm sure the CPF regulars like SD and JTR know about this one.

I only have a few lights which use li-ion, and only one which takes 18650s. I use the "safer" IMR LiMn2O4 in that light. It's unprotected, but since this is a single cell direct drive light it's physically impossible to either overdischarge the cell or drive it into reverse polarity. For my R123s I prefer LiFePO4. This is the safest Li-ion chemistry. The advantages are you don't need protected cells, there is little or no risk of explosion, and the cells have great longevity in terms of number of charge cycles and calender life. The downside is lower capacity. I avoid LiCo for three reasons. One, you need to use protected cells. Two, even with protected cells there is a slight risk of explosions. Three, they usually have a calender life of 3 to 5 years whether you use them or not. LiFePO4 may well last decades in service. The jury is still out but the data look promising.

 

[mubs]

Much of what you said is Greek to me, jtr, I know these chemistries exist, but know little else. Most chargers don't seem to charge LiFePO4, if I recollect right. Thanks for the info, it helps to learn more abut these things. I'll try to read up on them.

For now I'm sticking to NiMh and AAA / AA lights.

I have a lapel microphone I bought in the early '90s. It works very well, but the button battery died and I can't get a replacement. It was a mercury battery, and the world over they have stopped making mercury batteries because they are hazardous. Oddly, when I checked a few years ago there were no replacements available in other chemistries. I can't even remember if I still have the dead battery or got rid of it at the hazardous trash collection center.

 

[jtr1962]

Here's a nice primer of the different types of lithium-ion chemistries:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion

I'm personally a AA/AAA person myself. This is not only because these batteries are safe, but also because they are readily available. I only resort to lithium-ion when I need more energy than a reasonable number of AAs or AAAs can provide. For example, a bike light I'm designing is using four LiFePO4 26650s. These have roughly the energy of 18 Eneloop AAs. Dealing with that number of AAs would be inconvenient. And from a cost perspective 18 Eneloops would typically cost upwards of $45, while the cells I'm using cost about $30.

Yeah, LiFePO4 needs 3.60 to 3.65 volts to charge, so most typical ~4.2 volt lithium-ion chargers can't handle it.