Less insecure house locks

[Stereodude]

Apparently the typical locks on most houses can easily be picked, bumped, or have some other issue that generally makes them rather easily defeated and insecure. Has anyone attempted to address that?

Does anyone have a high end lock on their house / apartment / condo / domicile?

Any thoughts on whether a high end lock is really worth the cost when a thief can break a first floor window and enter a different way?

 

[Chewy509]

We have, as the primary benefit was reduced house/contents insurance premiums. (High end locks on all doors, and locks on all windows reduced the premium by ~10%).

At the end of the day, if someone wants in, they'll get it. But if you make your place that little bit harder than the neighbours place, most people breaking in will go for the easier targets... (that's the theory anyway for most insurance companies).

Remember, one of the things an easy target represents, is the ability to be in and out without noticeable external damage. (The longer it takes for someone to notice that they've been done, the harder it is to catch the person(s) who did it).

 

[Stereodude]

How high end did you go? (If you don't mind saying)

 

[Chewy509]

Admittedly, some would consider high-end for residential, but I would still consider low-end of the market... (having maintained Class A safes with dual keys, etc in the past jobs).

Our primary dead-bolts are similar to these (in addition to the regular door handles/locks):
http://www.lockweb.com.au/en/site/l...deadbolts/005-double-cylinder-round-deadbolt/
(Roughly AU$90-100 per lock).

On the windows are basic window locks (roughly AU$30 ea).

 

[mubs]

The White House has locks that are supposedly unpickable. They were, in half an hour, in a demo. The company that makes those locks tried to suppress that info. Can't remember names now.

I absolutely wouldn't trust those locks that can be opened with your phone etc.

Chewy made some valid points: a) somebody that is hell-bent on getting in will. b) instead of shooting for the moon, just be harder to break in than your neighbors.

Easy points to address b) would be an alarm system that you advertise like crazy in front of the house, that electronic device that barks like a dog, etc.

But then you already know all this.

 

[snowhiker]

Most residential doors can be open with a good swift kick, regardless of the lock, unless the frame is hardened quite a bit. Of course your average lazy scumbag will just find an easier mark, such as a door left unlocked. But if they want in, and the door location is not viewable from the street, they can just kick it in.

 

[Stereodude]

b) instead of shooting for the moon, just be harder to break in than your neighbors.

I'm not really talking about shooting for the moon. I'm talking about not using a lock that can be opened in seconds by someone with a bit of experience / know-how. The locks on my house right now are supposedly quite resistant to bumping and picking, but have a design flaw that makes it trivial to open them.

It seems that if you don't shoot for the moon and buy something rather exotic it's just a matter of time before some weakness is found or bypass tools show up and the lock is basically worthless. With an exotic lock, even if a weakness is found the tools or knowledge for defeating them are probably not in everyone's arsenal because they're so rarely encountered nearly no one bothers.

FWIW, I do have a security camera covering the front door.

 

[mubs]

That was scary; you certainly need to change your locks! You don't feel the need for a monitored alarm system?

 

[Stereodude]

That was scary; you certainly need to change your locks!

I know. However, I don't see any point in changing them twice by replacing them tonight with some low grade Home Depot sold lock, though perhaps one without such an obvious flaw, and then replace them in a week with something good. They've kept out the honest people for 4+ years since that information has been in the wild, so I guess they'll work for a few more days until I go directly to a much better lock.

You don't feel the need for a monitored alarm system?

IMHO monitored alarm systems are worthless. The police response is too slow for them to be of any use. You're effectively paying a monthly monitoring fee for nothing.

 

[time]

Hey Chewy, I think the reporter is bumping a variant of your lock 1:24 into this video:

https://youtu.be/PlLyu9ZmWiQ

 

[Stereodude]

Most residential doors can be open with a good swift kick, regardless of the lock, unless the frame is hardened quite a bit.

That's what this is for: http://armorconcepts.com/Door-Armor/

 

[Tannin]

It's a bit counter-intuitive to want damage, but most insurance policies won't pay out for burglary unless there are signs of forced entry. If someone breaks a window to get in, they pay out. If someone picks your lock, you have no insurance.

 

[Stereodude]

I'd hope having video of them picking the lock would rectify that situation. However, all the more reason to have locks that are extremely hard to pick.

 

[Tannin]

That would surely count as a "sign of forced entry". Mind you, some of these insurance companies would refuse to pay out if you had a valid claim form signed by St Peterand countersigned by God. (Possibly because, so far as anyone can tell, they operate in the service of the other chap. You know, the one with the pitchfork.)

On another tack, one thing I have made a habit of is having security keys. These can't be copied without either my signature and an entry in a secure record at the locksmith's, or some criminal having locksmith skills and tools. I image that the latter isn't all that unusual, but for the sake of a few extra dollars and some minor inconvenience if you want a spare key cut, why not?

 

[Chewy509]

Hey Chewy, I think the reporter is bumping a variant of your lock 1:24 into this video:

https://youtu.be/PlLyu9ZmWiQ

Pretty scary for what Lockwood are selling as a high-end lock.

(Our's are Carbine's, not Lockwoods).

 

[ddrueding]

Thoughts:

1. I regularly have copies of keys that say "Do Not Duplicate" or similar made all the time. Key services are offered by all kinds of places that employ minimum-wage high-school labor; they don't know or don't care.
2. One of my hobbies is sport-picking (timed competition for picking locks). "Un-pickable" is a moving target that isn't worth pursuing.
3. IMO, cameras > lights > locks > alarm.
4. Install cameras that are not invisible. I use Axis commercial-grade units in large housings.
5. I also have exterior lights surrounding the house and underlighing all major shrubbery. All of these turn on when any motion detector is triggered. No dark place to hide on my property at all.

 

[Stereodude]

1) Well, if they don't have a blank, they can't duplicate it.
2) I'm not going after un-pickable. I'm going after not easily picked/bumped/exploited. The problem as I see it is that if you don't try to aim at the far end of the "not easily picked" range you're likely to be just new one tool/device or exploit away from being easily picked.
3) I certainly agree that an alarm is not useful. Deterrents are better than aiming for impregnable security. Cameras and good lights are deterrents.
4) Agree, visibility is key.

 

[jtr1962]

After reading this thread, I bought one of these for the front door, which is 1.5" solid wood. We also have had steel security doors like these for the last 23 years. Another good feature which at least helps when you're home is a physical bolt like this. Obviously can't be opened from the outside. If you're really paranoid you can have window gates or bars.

If someone wants in, they'll eventually get in. The key is making it harder. Stronger doors, better locks will all slow down potential burglars. Stronger walls are good also (one reason I like brick, stone, or reinforced concrete walls instead of wood). Obviously you can ditch windows entirely, have steel doors a few inches thick, 12" reinforced concrete walls, multiple alarms, etc. but at some point you'll be living in a bunker, not a home. Just make it somewhat harder to break into your place than your neighbors.

I have mixed feelings about visible cameras or other highly visible deterrents. This could easily make thieves think you have a lot of valuables, and hence make your place a more likely target.

I tried the lock-picking thing. I managed to pick my old security door cylinder with a hairpin. Pretty scary considering this is the first time I ever tried something like this. Bumping seems even easier.

 

[time]

Pretty scary for what Lockwood are selling as a high-end lock.

(Our's are Carbine's, not Lockwoods).

To be fair, I suspect that video is from 2007 - which predates Lockwood's move to "Kinetic Defence" pins. They're now much harder to bump or pick, at the expense of smoothness of operation.

 

[time]

1) Well, if they don't have a blank, they can't duplicate it.

This.

I certainly agree that an alarm is not useful. Deterrents are better than aiming for impregnable security.

To me, the main purpose of an alarm is to be a deterrent. The external siren/light is usually highly visible.

I don't think monitored alarms are any use except for commercial premises away from where anyone lives. And then it's only as good as the response, which at a minimum should include cameras.

However, an alarm can make life a little more difficult for a burglar, as long as you have piercingly loud internal sirens. Many are just too weak - you want something rapidly modulated, high pitched and loud enough to disorientate.

I have mixed feelings about visible cameras or other highly visible deterrents. This could easily make thieves think you have a lot of valuables, and hence make your place a more likely target.

Same here. My cameras are visible but subtle.

 

[time]

One thing that is stopping me upgrading my locks is the logistics. I count 14 locks on external doors, all keyed alike. All but four are double cylinder, so that's technically 24 barrels. Expensive to rekey, let alone change all the barrels.

 

[time]

5. I also have exterior lights surrounding the house and underlighing all major shrubbery. All of these turn on when any motion detector is triggered. No dark place to hide on my property at all.

Practical considerations have stopped me achieving that level of external lighting. For example, I didn't want lights shining in the windows or interfering with the cameras. As it is, I count 13 external lights (although 10 are in dual cans aimed in different directions). Only one is hooked up to a PIR, useful only for telling me when the local cat visits our front door. I take it you don't have stray cats or strong winds?

 

[Stereodude]

One thing that is stopping me upgrading my locks is the logistics. I count 14 locks on external doors, all keyed alike. All but four are double cylinder, so that's technically 24 barrels. Expensive to rekey, let alone change all the barrels.

14 locks?!?!? I only have 2. One on the front door and one on the door from inside the garage to my house. Do you live in a mansion?

 

[ddrueding]

Practical considerations have stopped me achieving that level of external lighting. For example, I didn't want lights shining in the windows or interfering with the cameras. As it is, I count 13 external lights (although 10 are in dual cans aimed in different directions). Only one is hooked up to a PIR, useful only for telling me when the local cat visits our front door. I take it you don't have stray cats or strong winds?

In the more difficult locations I use the cameras as the motion detectors. The on-board software allows me to set dead zones where trees are and exclude areas close to the ground or just above fences. The cameras output a 12v trigger that is picked up by an Insteon senor that triggers the lights.

 

[time]

Far from it, but I do have 6 external doors. All but two have a security door as well, and three also have a key-in-knob lock as well as deadbolts. We usually don't bother using the key-in-knob locks except as latches.

The two without a security door are in a courtyard with a smooth, 8 ft high wall. The 6 ft pointy gates have two padlocks and my shed is also padlocked, along with the power box (annoyingly, switches are in with the meters in most houses here).

Having said all that, there is a large sliding glass door at the rear that is only half protected by a security door. Naturally, there is a camera there. I considered security film for the glass, but am not yet convinced (the glass is toughened and has already resisted a large lump of jagged concrete thrown at it, so I'm not desperate yet).

 

[time]

In the more difficult locations I use the cameras as the motion detectors. The on-board software allows me to set dead zones where trees are and exclude areas close to the ground or just above fences. The cameras output a 12v trigger that is picked up by an Insteon senor that triggers the lights.

Mine would be constantly firing from moths and geckos.

 

[timwhit]

Where we used to live in an 11 unit condo building after a break in, I had all the external locks replaced with Mul-T-Lock. You have to have a card with a code to get the key copied. Even if you find a locksmith that will copy a Mul-T-Lock key without the card, it's highly likely it won't work.

 

[Stereodude]

This.

I suppose 3D printing could potentially change the game with the right equipment a duplicate could be printed. However, that's probably not a primary attack vector at this point.

 

[mubs]

Only one is hooked up to a PIR, useful only for telling me when the local cat visits our front door. I take it you don't have stray cats or strong winds?

What's with the cat?

 

[Howell]

Where we used to live in an 11 unit condo building after a break in, I had all the external locks replaced with Mul-T-Lock.

Mul-T-Lock looks pretty impressive, especially if you can reuse some of your old hardware with character. Do you plan to use Mul-T-Lock at your new place?

Btw, congrats on baby #2.

 

[timwhit]

Mul-T-Lock looks pretty impressive, especially if you can reuse some of your old hardware with character. Do you plan to use Mul-T-Lock at your new place?

Btw, congrats on baby #2.

I thought about having my locks replaced, but seems like a pain. While we were out of town my friend stopped by to put a package in my house, he ended up locking my keys and his keys inside. He called a locksmith that "owed him a favor." The locksmith was unable to pick the lock, so that gives me some peace of mind.

 

[timwhit]

Btw, congrats on baby #2.

Thanks

 

[Stereodude]

I installed the new deadbolts today. It was definitely not a 5 minute job. I had to enlarge a number of of the existing cutouts in the door and door frame. A Dremel with a small sanding drum was my friend on the door frame. I got to use one of my chisels a fair bit also.

I hope I never lose my keys because there won't be any non-destructive way to get into the house. Calling a locksmith will be pointless.

 

[Howell]

What lock did you go with, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Stereodude]

What lock did you go with, if you don't mind me asking?

Abloy Protec2. One is a standard single cylinder.

The other is a single cylinder with a locking inside handle, so it can be used like a double cylinder, or not as I see fit. It has an emergency key feature where the emergency key will only unlock the inside handle, but not the outside facing cylinder. The premise is that you can keep the emergency key near the door to unlock the handle and open the door in an emergency, but if someone were to copy that key or take it they can't get in from the outside with it. A standard double cylinder is either not safe because you can't get out in an emergency if you don't have your house key with you, or rather pointless because you leave the key in the lock all the time. This attempts to address that.

 

[time]

The idea behind the double cylinder is to stop thieves opening your doors from the inside and carrying out your belongings. If you leave a key inside, you may as well just have a single cylinder.

When you're in the house, double cylinder locks should have a key in them. When you leave, you take the keys with you.

I like the locks on our sliding doors, where once latched on the inside, it needs a key to open from the outside. So when you're in the house, you don't need a key in the lock. But when you leave, you use a key (on either side) to fully deadlock them. The deadlocked state is indicated with a red popup tag. Similarly, the security door locks can be locked with a snib or completely deadlocked with a key when leaving.

 

[Stereodude]

The idea behind the double cylinder is to stop thieves opening your doors from the inside and carrying out your belongings. If you leave a key inside, you may as well just have a single cylinder.

I don't have a key left in it. There is a key to unlock the inner handle very near the front door.

When you're in the house, double cylinder locks should have a key in them. When you leave, you take the keys with you.

That's great if you go in and out of your house through that door. If you don't that usage model doesn't really work.

I like the locks on our sliding doors, where once latched on the inside, it needs a key to open from the outside. So when you're in the house, you don't need a key in the lock. But when you leave, you use a key (on either side) to fully deadlock them. The deadlocked state is indicated with a red popup tag.

That sounds fairly similar to what I've got except you can't lock the inner handle out from the outside. It can only be done from the inside.

 

[Howell]

Several doors on the house were fitted with security doors by the previous owner. I'm not even sure where the keys are if we were even given them. I have another door that I need to fit with a deadbolt as it currently has no lock of any kind. I would prefer to carry only one key. Do quality retrofit bump resistant locks for security storm doors exist that would share a key with a deadbolt?

 

[time]

You might have more joy by just changing the lock cylinders. See Stereodude's hassles with retrofitting whole locks, and in your case metal not wood.

Some things to watch out for:

1. Some security screen door locks cannot be removed without a key.
2. Security screen doors need a triple lock system to prevent a burglar just bending the door. If you have one, the mechanism for the extra bolts is likely not compatible with your replacement lock.

 

[Stereodude]

Do quality retrofit bump resistant locks for security storm doors exist that would share a key with a deadbolt?

Sorry, no idea. Maybe check with a locksmith?