Looking for HD and CD-RW

[Handruin]

I'm looking to give my father ideas for a hard drive and a CD-RW. He is looking for an EIDE drive under $100 and around 20-40 GB. I'm also looking to recommend a decent EIDE CD-RW drive for under $100.

So far this is what I've found, but I'm looking for everyone's advice.

So far I've seen a plextor 12X/10X/32X at mwave for $87.00 USD (newegg has it for $83) in a whitebox. I really like plextor, but I'm open for ideas. TEAC has a 24X10X40 for $95, but I don't know how good the drives are. There is also an asus 24x10x40 for $80...I'm so confused.

Now for hard drives. I see a WD400BB for $79, but is this one of their models to avoid?

I'm so far out of touch on maxtor drives I don't even know what they offer. I've never really been a big fan of them, but it seems like they have improved over the years. (what do I really know?) What about the Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 40 or 45?

I'm not going to even speak IBM, oopss I just did.

Then there is seagate. Any thoughts on the Seagate Barracuda IV ST340016A 40gb 7200rpm, Newegg has it for $77? SR reports it being slow in access time, but overall it looks like a fair drive.

He's not looking for an enormous drive, just something bigger the 6.5 GB SCSI Quantum in my old PII 350 MHz box. Reliability would be nice, but that is such a picky subject it's impossible to determine which is reliable and which isn't. (Either way I'm not touching IBM)

-DC

 

[Tea]

Plextor are so bloody dear over here that I've never even seen one in the flesh. Even Sol won't pay Plextor prices.

TEAC have always made excellent optical drives. I have a TEAC 24 x 8 x 4 in my main CD burner box at the office. It's smooth and quiet, the tray mechanism is much superior to some of the wobbly crap you see around the place, and it never misses a beat.

Last time I tried ASUS opticals they were OK, nothing special, but it was quite a while ago. 32X readers, I think, maybe 40X.

I don't think he will care too much about the 16X vs 24X. Oh - the Plextor is 12X. No matter. It will still be fast enough for most people.

Hard drives? The WD400BB is an excellent, tried and tested unit. I think they are as good as any 40GB IDE drive on the market right now, though I have yet to try the 7200 RPM Maxtors. We have sold quite a lot of them - the WDs, I mean - certainly more than 100, probably more than double that, and the return rate has been excellent.

 

[Mercutio]

Maxtor's 740X is a great general-purpose drive. newegg has the 60GB unit for $100 even and the 40GB for $80something. Best IDE drive around, far as I'm concerned.

For the other... well, I just posted something about the Lite-On 32x drive. Good drive. A good bit better than the 16x Mitsumis I've bought recently.

 

[Pradeep]

http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=331003

Sony 24x10x40x IDE burner for $86.30+shipping.

I have one of these works great.

 

[Mercutio]

Not trying to up my post count, only forgot a couple of things I wanted to say:

1.) Tannin, you have got to find a decent Maxtor supplier. The way you feel about Samsung, I feel about Maxtor. Fan-freaking-tastic drives. Biggest complaint you can have is that their 5400s are slugs compared to the WDs.
2.) The DM40+ is ancient history Doug. I have a bunch of them. They're good drives, but the Quantum AS and 740X both spank it. I don't think you can get one new in a box at this point.

 

[CougTek]

The Mitsumi 32/12/48 cost below 100U$ and it also supports Mt.Rainier technology. In fact, it's the fastest Mt.Rainier writer on the market. It's slightly slower to burn CD-R than other 32x burners, but only the CyberDrive similar model is faster to write CD-RW medias.

If I had to upgrade a burner today, it would be either the CyberDrive (fastest 32x burner, but no support for Mt.Rainier) or the Mitsumi 32x models.

 

[Pradeep]

Ahh, you forget the 40X LiteOn drive with Mt Ranier CougTek

http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=331605

$127 but the fastest doesn't come ultra cheap.

 

[Mercutio]

Am I the only person who doesn't care about the -RW aspects of CD-RWs?
I think I've burned maybe four in my life; once for every drive I've personally owned, and never had any reason to do it again.

Why should I pay a buck fifty for an -RW disc when CD-Rs cost a maybe fifteen cents?

 

[Pradeep]

The problem with CD-RW is that the speeds were slow at 4x originally, plus you have to put DirectCD or InCD or some sort of software to allow you to drag and drop. Not to mention the time wastage involved in formatting. With Mt Rainier, the OS should see it straight away, and you can drag and drop like a floppy, with delayed formatting and all that goodness

 

[Buck]

Am I the only person who doesn't care about the -RW aspects of CD-RWs?
I think I've burned maybe four in my life; once for every drive I've personally owned, and never had any reason to do it again.

Why should I pay a buck fifty for an -RW disc when CD-Rs cost a maybe fifteen cents?

You're not alone Mercutio, you are just more vocal.

BR

 

[Tannin]

In that case, Mercutio, you have burned exactly four more CDRs than I have.

 

[CougTek]

Ahh, you forget the 40X LiteOn drive with Mt Ranier CougTek

http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=331605

$127 but the fastest doesn't come ultra cheap.

According to this review at CDRLabs, it still doesn't :

InfoTool also points out that the LTR-40125S does not support the Mt. Rainier format. This is very interesting since Lite-On's website "Supporting Mt. Rainier" as one of the drive's features. Will Mt. Rainier support be added later? I've asked Lite-On this question and so far they have not had an answer for me.

Apparently, the LiteON doesn't support Mt.Rainier yet.

 

[Pradeep]

Well according to that tool it isn't capable of burning CD-RW! It would be interesting to find out one way or the other.

 

[Handruin]

Am I the only person who doesn't care about the -RW aspects of CD-RWs?
I think I've burned maybe four in my life; once for every drive I've personally owned, and never had any reason to do it again.

Why should I pay a buck fifty for an -RW disc when CD-Rs cost a maybe fifteen cents?

I never used to care about the "RW" part of a CD-R drive, but since SF...

The current size of the SF backup is 97MB compressed. This includes all the forum files and every database backup. This gets saved nightly to my 10KIII and then compressed and saved to my barracuda 18XL creating a 2nd copy. Once a week it gets put onto a CD-RW.

Anyway, back to what I was asking about. So I think I will recommend the TEAC as it sounds like a decent drive for the money. Now I'm a little torn between the WD400BB and the 740X as a recommendation. I currently have a Sony 12x10x32 but it's not all that great. It gets the job done, but sometimes the tray won’t close with the power button and it makes weird noises.

 

[Handruin]

How's this price look for a Quantum 60 GB AS?

Quantum AS

 

[CougTek]

Doug,

The 125.64U$ they ask for their 60GB Quantum Fireball Plus AS is way to much. 125.64U$ is like ~201$CDN. Well, here I can (as a customer, not as a reseller) buy the same drive (Quantum FB+ AS 60GB) for 163$CDN (~102U$). I'm sure you can find the FB+ for the same price in the US, and generally you can even have better prices than I can in Montréal.

Keep searching.

 

[Mercutio]

newegg.com has the superior 60GB 740X available for an even $100. Why pay $30 more for a slower, older drive?

 

[Handruin]

newegg.com has the superior 60GB 740X available for an even $100. Why pay $30 more for a slower, older drive?

Well, I wasn't really sure how old it was. The reason I asked about the Quantum is that you mentioned:
"The DM40+ is ancient history Doug. I have a bunch of them. They're good drives, but the Quantum AS and 740X both spank it. I don't think you can get one new in a box at this point.

It sounds like the Maxtor 740X is the better choice? How does it compare to the WD 400BB in your own opinion?

 

[Mercutio]

I've only used a 40BB once in a customer machine. WD isn't exactly my favorite drive company, although I recognize they have gotten a lot better. My preference for the Maxtor 740x (and, to a lesser extent, the Quantum AS) was unchanged after playing with a WD400BB.

Take that however you want, but SR's legacy tests mostly show around a 5% performance edge to the 740X over the WD.

 

[Buck]

I've only used a 40BB once in a customer machine. WD isn't exactly my favorite drive company, although I recognize they have gotten a lot better. My preference for the Maxtor 740x (and, to a lesser extent, the Quantum AS) was unchanged after playing with a WD400BB.

Take that however you want, but SR's legacy tests mostly show around a 5% performance edge to the 740X over the WD.

Mercutio, just for clarification, which WD400BB are you talking about, the one used in SR's original review in September 2000, or the WD400BB from their latest family (based off of the WD1200BB family)?

BR

 

[Mercutio]

I don't know. I bought a retail-boxed 400BB from the local Best Buy in January of this year and installed it in a machine I sold pretty much right away. I really don't have access to the drive any more to look, either.

 

[Buck]

Sorry Mercutio, I was referring to SR's legacy tests.

 

[Mercutio]

It would help if WD would tell us when changeovers like that occur. I really don't like their naming system, simple as it is. Maxtor mostly does the same thing - their retail packaging can include "same model or better", but WD's nomenclature means that anything with a 40GB capacity and 7200rpm spin-rate is a 400BB, no matter what's inside the drive itself.

 

[Handruin]

Well, I passed the suggestions of equipment along and my father bought the liquid bearing version of the 740X Maxtor in a 40GB size. He also went with the Teac 24x10x40 and a Promise UDMA 133 card in order to help out the aging AOpen AX6BC motherboard.

Well, I took a trip this morning around 11:00AM to install the components and I'm just getting home now. It was a long process trying to get both CD-ROM drive working with the Promise and also to ghost his original setup to the new drive.

I have to say the Maxtor 740X 40GB drive is very quiet. I can hardly hear the seeks and there is little to no spindle noise.

The Teac 24x10x40 is very fast! I didn't have much time to play with it, but it burnt one of our CD's in 2:50 in Nero. We did have a great deal of trouble getting a copy on the fly to work because the machine (Windows 98SE) locks up. I think it may have to do with the CD-RW being on the built in EIDE controller, and the CD-ROM being on the Promise.

We had to put the on separate controllers because the cable we had didn't work correctly. I think the promise card needed a 40 pin, 80 conductor cable regardless that both CD drives were not running above UDMA 33.

So it has been a long day, and I'm really tired. Just thought I share the joys of upgrading.

 

[James]

Do Promise controllers support ATAPI devices? I was under the impression they didn't - at least the built in Promise controller on my A7V doesn't seem to.

 

[Handruin]

Do Promise controllers support ATAPI devices? I was under the impression they didn't - at least the built in Promise controller on my A7V doesn't seem to.

I don't recall seeing any limitation on the card? Maybe it's that way for Promise RAID cards?

Here is the link for more details:

http://www.promise.com/product/subsys_detail_eng.asp?pid=87&fid=3

 

[Clocker]

Ahh, you forget the 40X LiteOn drive with Mt Ranier CougTek

http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=331605

$127 but the fastest doesn't come ultra cheap.

Same drive at Newegg.com for $96 + $6 shipping via Fedex

 

[Pradeep]

GG price is now $104 + shipping. Amazing what a month does to the prices of the latest shiny tech.

 

[Tannin]

ATAPI on Promise in an ASUS board? Sure they do. At least, there was a generation which had ATA-66 on the chipset and ATA-100 via Promise. I made a practice of putting the (ATA-100) hard drives on the ATA-66 controllers, because they always work, and the (ATA-33) optical drives on the Promise controllers, simply because Promise controllers are crap and can't be relied upon to work unless you have the drivers all sorted and the stupid Promise BIOS set correctly. Doing it this way, if (when) your Promise card looses the plot you can at least still boot.

Theoretically it would be faster the other way around, and if I was ever lunatic enough to use add-on Promise controllers instead of SCSI on my own machines I'd do it like that, but for a machine owned by a non-techie where I'm the one who gets the support calls - no way.

 

[time]

I have to say the Maxtor 740X 40GB drive is very quiet. I can hardly hear the seeks and there is little to no spindle noise.

All I can say is that it must have come from a different factory from the one we have in the next room. This one has very audible seeks and spindle noise is nothing special. Certainly far louder than the 60GXP it replaced. And no faster.

I just tried to confirm that we have the fluid bearing version, but I haven't recorded enough of the model number in our inventory. You need the very last letter.

I've been most impressed with Barracuda IV. IMHO, it is clearly the most advanced ATA drive currently available. I'm not sure why you would consider the lower performing WD400BB for personal use (but obviously it's cheap and reliable, so I'm happy to sell them to others). I think the Barracuda V will be one hell of a drive.

BTW, I'm trying to decide what we should use in low end servers. The obvious choice from SR's tests is IBM, but I'm afraid despite efforts to remain objective, even I am prejudiced against them now.

The Maxtor's low seek times make it the next choice, but I notice performance is slightly erratic and not clearly above the Barracuda IV. The only real reason I've got to lean towards the Maxtor is Mercutio's enthusiastic recommendation, which I hold in high regard.

Of course, there's also the Samsung 7200rpm, but I don't think Tannin has sold enough of those to be as confident about reliability as he is with the 5400rpm?

I can't see any arguments for WD in this application. Can anyone else?

 

[CougTek]

According to SR testing, the Samsung P40 is underperforming compared to other 7200rpm modern drives. I wouldn't use unless all the others would be much dearer and as reliable as a bunch of 75GXP.

The Barracuda ATA IV seems to be less noisy and quicker overall. I like the Maxtor D740X because it's been developped by Quantum originally and Quantum past 7200rpm drives have been very, very reliable in my experience. And here the D740X is the cheapest 40GB 7.2K rpm hard drive, so that's another plus for it.

 

[Handruin]

I have to say the Maxtor 740X 40GB drive is very quiet. I can hardly hear the seeks and there is little to no spindle noise.

All I can say is that it must have come from a different factory from the one we have in the next room. This one has very audible seeks and spindle noise is nothing special. Certainly far louder than the 60GXP it replaced. And no faster.

I just tried to confirm that we have the fluid bearing version, but I haven't recorded enough of the model number in our inventory. You need the very last letter.

I've been most impressed with Barracuda IV. IMHO, it is clearly the most advanced ATA drive currently available. I'm not sure why you would consider the lower performing WD400BB for personal use (but obviously it's cheap and reliable, so I'm happy to sell them to others). I think the Barracuda V will be one hell of a drive.

BTW, I'm trying to decide what we should use in low end servers. The obvious choice from SR's tests is IBM, but I'm afraid despite efforts to remain objective, even I am prejudiced against them now.

The Maxtor's low seek times make it the next choice, but I notice performance is slightly erratic and not clearly above the Barracuda IV. The only real reason I've got to lean towards the Maxtor is Mercutio's enthusiastic recommendation, which I hold in high regard.

Of course, there's also the Samsung 7200rpm, but I don't think Tannin has sold enough of those to be as confident about reliability as he is with the 5400rpm?

I can't see any arguments for WD in this application. Can anyone else?

I realize noise is a very subjective matter, but I had to put my ear about 6 inches away from the drive in order to hear seeks. This was with the case side open!

Perhaps this is due to the drive being brand new, but I can't imagine it will become much louder unless it is defective. I'm used to the grumbles of my atlas 10KII and 10KIII. These drives are much noisier then the maxtor. I like to be able to hear the seeks. I may be the minority in this area, but I like to hear the drive work.

I recommended the drive to my father based on Mercutio’s enthusiasm also.

 

[Mercutio]

It's flattering to read that my recommendation is so highly regarded! Particularly since Tannin's been pounding on his Samsungs for ages and no one seems to buy them.

I'd feel awful if something happened a 740X that was purchased on my recommendation, though.

But then, two things comfort me. The first is that we're talking about Maxtor, the "no quibble service" people. The second is the fact that Maxtor seems to be one of the companies people on SR complain about the least (er, except for Greg and his RAID). Considering the market penetration of Maxtor, that's remarkable in and of itself.

 

[Handruin]

It's flattering to read that my recommendation is so highly regarded! Particularly since Tannin's been pounding on his Samsungs for ages and no one seems to buy them.

I'd feel awful if something happened a 740X that was purchased on my recommendation, though.

But then, two things comfort me. The first is that we're talking about Maxtor, the "no quibble service" people. The second is the fact that Maxtor seems to be one of the companies people on SR complain about the least (er, except for Greg and his RAID). Considering the market penetration of Maxtor, that's remarkable in and of itself.

I do take everyone's consideration into play here. I took Tannins recommendation on the Teac drive and it seems to work very well so far. Although my father ordered the 24x10x40 and not the one Tannin has. It's a fast drive and we burnt a CD-R in less then 3 minutes! (I don't know if it was full, but it was close to being full)

If the Maxtor drive was to fail tomorrow I wouldn't think twice about it being a bad recommendation on your part, the same with the CD-R drive. I do understand that some drives can, and will fail, it's the luck of the draw.

The part that makes me feel better is that both of you have your hands on numerous pieces of equipment all the time. At least that is my impression... You have to support this equipment, so I take that into account when you recommend equipment. As far as I know you don't work for Maxtor, so what do you have to gain by recommending a maxtor to someone else?

The two companies I hear the least amount of problems with are Maxtor and Quantum. I am probably misinformed, but that's my impression. My father wanted to buy a Quantum drive, but it didn't make sense to get the AS series drive when you said the Maxtor was a faster drive.

My father replaced his Quantum fireball 3.8 GB drive that has been running for probably a good 4 to 5 years now without one bit of trouble. We even kept the Quantum fireball 6.4 GB drive which has also been running for 3-4 years.

Throughout our computer years the only drives we've had fail so far are Western Digital. (Starting with a WD 480 MB and up to my 6.4 Caviar) I think my WD 18 GB expert is on it's way out. The drive continues to power down at random times. (Power management is disabled, I checked) It has done this for over 2 years now, but the drive doesn't have any bad clusters that I know about.

 

[Mercutio]

Try a different power connector, if you haven't already done so. I had a machine doing that to one of my drives this summer. It was maddening until I swapped the drive and, at the same time the power cable. The drive works fine in another machine, and now I have a tag on the cable inside that case to remind me not to use it.

 

[timwhit]

Is there drive still under warranty? If it is then I would RMA it and get a new one. Why have a time-bomb sitting in your computer?

Or if it isn't under warranty then why not sell it on eBay, saying that it might be bad or maybe it's not....