MAC and PC common storage help

[gizzzo]

I'm regularly a PC user but have just purchased a second computer which is a MAC. I backup my data to a 500GB External HD with 5 NTFS partitions of 100GB each. Each partition contains a different type of date, ie Music, Videos, Docs, etc. I used separate partition to avoid the risk of corrupting all my data if murphy visits. (This has happened.)

With my new mac, my goal now is to be able to use this so I can have 1 common storage for both my PC and Mac. I want to be able to access the data in the HD from both computers. NTFS doesn't work because it is not supported natively by Mac.

I'm stumped. At first I had planned to do repartition and reformat with FAT32 since it's accessible by both systems but since FAT32 has size limits my 100GB partitions can't be formatted as Fat32. I can't do NTFS because Mac can't access it. I can't do HFS because PC can't access it. I need 1 HD accessible by both PC and Mac.

Help! Any suggestions? I really appreciate it because I'm stumped. Thanks.

 

[P5-133XL]

Share the data over a network.

 

[Will Rickards]

You can format larger partitions with FAT32. Just not with the built in formatter.
You need to use a win98 version of format. Or one of the third party fat32 formatters.
I think I used this one last time I had to do it.
You can also format it from the mac, it doesn't have the partition size limitation.

 

[gizzzo]

Share the data over a network.

That was my first option. I had a Maxtor Shared Storage II NAS but it's not working and I'm not getting any help from Maxtor. So I'm exploring other options. Thanks.

 

[gizzzo]

You can format larger partitions with FAT32. Just not with the built in formatter.
You need to use a win98 version of format. Or one of the third party fat32 formatters.
I think I used this one last time I had to do it.
You can also format it from the mac, it doesn't have the partition size limitation.

Thanks. I'll try that out and post the results.

Question: Are there any inherent risk in using fat32 over large partitions (over 32GB) even if I can format it?

 

[Will Rickards]

The only caveat I've heard is performance. I use one to store my backup images.

 

[gizzzo]

The only caveat I've heard is performance. I use one to store my backup images.

That will be a problem because I intended that to be the primary storage for media files like music and videos.

What's the performance degradation?

What would be the most optimal thing to do if I want to have a common storage for both mac and PC which would contain files that are accessed at a regular basis like ipod sync or video editing?

Tnx

 

[LunarMist]

FAT32 takes a perfomance hit when there are many (tens of thousands) of small files. It is fine for large files, being faster than NTFS in some cases. If the interface is not eSATA or FW800 that will be the main bottleneck. Of course you are more likely to lose data with FAT32 if the drive is not properly dismounted from the system prior to removal.

 

[gizzzo]

So what would be the most optimal thing to do if I want to have a common storage for both mac and PC which would contain files that are accessed at a regular basis like ipod sync or video editing?

 

[ddrueding]

FAT32. The performance difference isn't significant and minor filesystem corruption from removing the drive improperly is a minor issue.

 

[gizzzo]

I'm now evaluating 2 options:

1. Format drive using Fat32 with the tools suggested above (thanks!).
2. Format from MAC in HFS, then purchase and install MacDrive (http://www.mediafour.com/products/macdrive/) to access it from my PC.

What's the better option? What are the inherent pros and cons for each option?

Again, I really appreciate the help guys. thanks

 

[ddrueding]

FAT32 is simple and easy and LOTS of people do it, so any future troubleshooting will be easy to find help with/for. It will be a little (5-10%? barely noticeable) slower, but still plenty fast for streaming videos, etc.

HFS is common enough on Mac stuff, but trusting the product of a company I haven't heard of to not mess with my data seems more complicated and potentially risky. It is potentially faster, and I have no idea whether it is less likely to corrupt data if you disconnect improperly.

 

[P5-133XL]

That was my first option. I had a Maxtor Shared Storage II NAS but it's not working and I'm not getting any help from Maxtor. So I'm exploring other options. Thanks.

I really must be missing something basic here because I don't see what the problem with just natively sharing the data over your network. Just plug your external drive into one of the machines and share the data. Both Mac's and Microsoft has that capability builtin. The underlying file system is taken care of by the appropiate OS and the requesting OS just recieves the data without regard of how it was stored on the other machine. There may be some configuring to get workgroups/domains common and security properly set but that's about it.

 

[Mercutio]

There are certainly issues with using FAT32. From a performance standpoint, FAT32 fragments easily and needs regular maintenance to keep from being a drag on the rest of your OS.
Furthermore, FAT32 imposes file size limits that are highly restrictive; most files are limited to 2GB, which can be a problem for video files or backup data.

My advice is to get some kind of NAS setup and put your common storage on that. A lot of nicer home routers have storage link capability these days. Most of them probably use Linux ext2fs to format attached drives, but Linux is smart enough to be happy with whatever format the disk is using, unlike either Windows or Mac systems.

 

[Mercutio]

There are certainly issues with using FAT32. From a performance standpoint, FAT32 fragments easily and needs regular maintenance to keep from being a drag on the rest of your OS.
Furthermore, FAT32 imposes file size limits that are highly restrictive; most files are limited to 2GB, which can be a problem for video files or backup data.

My advice is to get some kind of NAS setup and put your common storage on that. A lot of nicer home routers have storage link capability these days. Most of them probably use Linux ext2fs to format attached drives, but Linux is smart enough to be happy with whatever format the disk is using, unlike either Windows or Mac systems.

 

[gizzzo]

I really must be missing something basic here because I don't see what the problem with just natively sharing the data over your network. Just plug your external drive into one of the machines and share the data. Both Mac's and Microsoft has that capability builtin. The underlying file system is taken care of by the appropiate OS and the requesting OS just recieves the data without regard of how it was stored on the other machine. There may be some configuring to get workgroups/domains common and security properly set but that's about it.

The problem is I'm no networking expert. I am exploring options and looking at the optimal option. There will be tradeoffs. While your suggestion is something I am considering, that would be initially costly for me since I have to learn networking to do that. This is a home scenario: 1 mac, 1 PC and 1 router. Also, which is faster, doing it thru USB/Firewire or thru ethernet?

 

[gizzzo]

Thanks for all the suggestions and help. I sort of boiled it down to 3 options so far yet I still have not concluded what the optimal option is since each has its tradeoffs. So far they are:

1. format it in fat32. access from PC and Mac thru USB/Firewire. Pros: easy. Con: performance issues? Cost: Free.
2. format it in HFS. install macdrive in PC. access thru USB/Fireware. Pros: whatever benefits of formating with HFS (I'm not very familiar since I'm a mac newbie and initial research indicates there are inherent benefits as there are with NTFS over Fat32. Con: I have no experience with HFS nor Macdrive to judge their reliability. Cost: $50 on Macdrive.
3. no need to reformat or repartition. Share the drive using native network tools in both PC and Mac. Pros: no reformating. Con: I don't know how to do it in a home environment of 1 pc, 1 mac and 1 wireless router. Cost: free?
4. Other options?

Which do you think is the most optimal?

Again, thanks for helping a newbie out. I'm learning a lot. Really appreciate the help.

 

[ddrueding]

I would go with option #3. Sharing on the network should be really easy and it gives you access to the data from both machines at the same time. Is one a desktop? If so I would share it from there. What is the OS of any desktop machine (or least mobile laptop) you have?

 

[gizzzo]

I would go with option #3. Sharing on the network should be really easy and it gives you access to the data from both machines at the same time. Is one a desktop? If so I would share it from there. What is the OS of any desktop machine (or least mobile laptop) you have?

That seems to be the easiest when I overcome to initial curve of learning how to network macs and pcs. Any useful site I can get started with?

the desktop is the imac so I will probably connect the external HD there thru firewire, format it with HFS and share the folders so I can access it from my windows Vista notebook.

Question: will the filesystem matter on a network share?

 

[ddrueding]

Question: will the filesystem matter on a network share?

Nope. As long as the machine the hard drive is connected to can read the file system, it will handle passing the data to the other machine. Unfortunately, I'm not much of a mac person, so I can't walk you through sharing the drive, but this looks pretty good.

 

[gizzzo]

Ok I tried the network option and let me share my experience for the benefit of others who may be in the same situation.

I reformatted the external HD to HFS (very easy in mac) and created folders to mirror folders that contain my critical data. I also created the same folders in my iMac. I shared these folders thru SMB (so they can be accessed by my Windows based laptop.) Voila! I can now see the folders in the iMac. (SUPER THANKS TO EVERYONE!)

Problem started when I started copying files from PC to Mac. (PC thru wifi, mac thru ethernet, 1 linksys router.) For some odd reason, the router throttles or cuts the connection whenever I'm copying because after 5 minutes of copying I suddenly lose connection and regain it once unplug/plug the router. I repeat the process around 4 times and the same thing happen, there's a pattern.

Is this a known issue? What's causing this?

 

[Mercutio]

If you're dealing with a wireless network connection, it could be periodic interference from another device nearby. A lot of 2.4GHz devices like cordless phones do a certain amount of frequency hopping as a security measure. The fix is to move your router to a different channel (in order of preference: 11, 1, 6).

If it's entirely wired, the only thing I can think is that your switch's backplane is getting saturated and that's causing some kind of software error on the device. I've seen that on cheap 16-port 100Mbit switches and on cheap 4-port gigabit switches with more than half the ports active at once.

 

[timwhit]

Maybe your router is overheating. My general fix for that is to whip the router across the room until the case falls off. Alternatively, I hit it with my fist until the case breaks. If the board inside is still intact and works, the increased airflow from not having a plastic case should take care of your overheating problem.

 

[Mercutio]

I've been told that keeping home routers on conditioned power (i.e. a UPS) vastly increases their reliability, too.

 

[timwhit]

I've been told that keeping home routers on conditioned power (i.e. a UPS) vastly increases their reliability, too.

Even with those huge power bricks? I thought part of the point of those was to protect against power spikes?

 

[Mercutio]

So I've been told.

The theory is that those home routers run so close to the ragged edge of what their components supposedly need that even very minor power fluctuations can have a deleterious consequence for their operation.

 

[gizzzo]

Hahaha. I'm almost at that point. When I do I'll post pictures of the the "redesigned" router.

Maybe your router is overheating. My general fix for that is to whip the router across the room until the case falls off. Alternatively, I hit it with my fist until the case breaks. If the board inside is still intact and works, the increased airflow from not having a plastic case should take care of your overheating problem.

 

[gizzzo]

Seriously speaking I have eliminated the overheating possibility because the router has rarely malfunctioned or cut connection randomly before. But with this, it is consistent: around 5 minutes into the process connections are cut but router is still alive, lights are on. weird.

Maybe your router is overheating. My general fix for that is to whip the router across the room until the case falls off. Alternatively, I hit it with my fist until the case breaks. If the board inside is still intact and works, the increased airflow from not having a plastic case should take care of your overheating problem.

 

[gizzzo]

My router is plugged in a conditioned line so this possibility is eliminated too. Thanks

I've been told that keeping home routers on conditioned power (i.e. a UPS) vastly increases their reliability, too.

 

[Fushigi]

When I re-did my home office (new desk: bow desk + return + 3-drawer pedestal) I relocated my router, cable modem, and VOIP box to sit in front of an air return vent. The vent is high on the wall towards the ceiling. Whenever the HVAC is running they will have airflow over them to help draw heat away.

Under my old office setup I had a small fan blowing across them. I know the devices should get by with passive heat radiation but they can get pretty warm and heat is never a friend to electronics.

 

[Fushigi]

Gizzzo - I don't know HFS so I don't know if it would have the same root directory limitation that FAT had prior to FAT32. Also, try and get a count of the number of files it copies before it fails. If it fails at a magic number - 255/256, 512, etc. - it could be indicative of a bug.

If it fails on the same file every time, try eliminating that file from the copy to make sure just that file isn't corrupt.

You might also consider trying different copy utilities.

Or do a reverse-copy as a test. Share the directory on the Windows machine and execute the copy from the Mac side.

 

[mubs]

My Buffalo wireless router and clients are cool to the touch. My wired SMC router gets hot. I can fry eggs on my current DSL modem. Such heat to me indicates poor design; a lot of electricity being unnecessarily consumed and dissipated as heat.

 

[ddrueding]

All the electricity is consumes is released as heat, so mainly it is an indicator of how much energy it is consuming. Can't say whether it is doing anything useful with that energy. I have modded WRT54Gs with fans after overclocking them and turning up the transmit power

 

[gizzzo]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give them a go and publish the results.

Gizzzo - I don't know HFS so I don't know if it would have the same root directory limitation that FAT had prior to FAT32. Also, try and get a count of the number of files it copies before it fails. If it fails at a magic number - 255/256, 512, etc. - it could be indicative of a bug.

If it fails on the same file every time, try eliminating that file from the copy to make sure just that file isn't corrupt.

You might also consider trying different copy utilities.

Or do a reverse-copy as a test. Share the directory on the Windows machine and execute the copy from the Mac side.