Migrating to Gmail

[time]

I'm a bit fed up (again) trying to get useful information out of Google's web pages. I want to migrate a domain to GoogleApps, subject to these requirements:

* Existing email is POP3, so I'll be relying on IMAP to upload existing emails.
* Web interface will be secondary, so connection to multiple IMAP clients is expected (Outlook, Thunderbird, iPhone).
* Fastmail offers 'forwarding tunnels' that allow you to set up a domain without affecting the existing domain, then forward emails to it (eg spammer@storageforum.net.messagingengine.com). This allows you to migrate one user at a time without any downtime. What's the Google equivalent?
* I've assumed that Outlook can update Google's Contacts - yes?

I'm already cheesed because Google wants me to modify the MX record to prove that I have authority over the domain. WTF? Nothing exists in the outside world until the MX entry points to Google, surely?

It's an added irritation because I'm going to have to jump through hoops to wrest back control of the MX record from a defunct ISP before this goes through.

 

[time]

I'm driven to this because more than 10 years after bug reports were raised, Thunderbird still can't update LDAP address books, which is all that FastMail offers.

Against the odds, has anyone found a workaround for Thunderbird, the moribund email client that even as we speak, has leaped from version 3 to 4 to 5?

 

[Chewy509]

I'm driven to this because more than 10 years after bug reports were raised, Thunderbird still can't update LDAP address books, which is all that FastMail offers.

Against the odds, has anyone found a workaround for Thunderbird, the moribund email client that even as we speak, has leaped from version 3 to 4 to 5?

Not for LDAP address books. IIRC, most people use the central LDAP address book for the central corporate email addresses, and then use private address books for all other contacts. (Yes, that sucks when you want a centralised client address book).

But for Gmail, the "Google Contacts" add-in for TB works flawlessly in keeping you local address book in sync with GMail. (With getting an Android based phone recently, I've set up a gmail account to act as a conduit in keeping my contacts and calendar/tasks in sync between my phone and TB - works perfectly for what I do. Just a little annoyed that there is no direct sync path between TB and Android phones).

 

[Mercutio]

I use Gmail contacts with Thunderbird as well.

If you're dealing with Outlook, you may very well have issues with huge .pst migrations. I found the migration tools that were available to do an extremely poor job transferring data from desktop machines to Gmail. Moving folders via Outlook is slow and labor intensive but in the end I've found that complex arrangements of nested folders just don't seem to transfer properly any other way.

Modifying the MX records is what will make SMTP traffic head off to google.com instead of whatever server you've previously used (Fastmail?). That's obvious, right?

All the Gmail migrations I've ever done have required that I either make a TXT record or an A record on the subscribed domain that points to google.com. I'm not sure why they'd make you do it differently or what the point would be of having you change an MX record at any point prior to the switch to actual use of Google's servers.

 

[Mercutio]

Oh, Outlook Contacts:

AFAIK, the only time that syncing them natively is an option is under paid Google Apps with the Gmail Sync tool installed on client machines. That essentially turns Gmail into an Exchange replacement and also allows for Calendar sharing and some other stuff. There are some hack-y third party tools that maybe sorta work for that stuff but they're either not free or they have weird limitations.

Thunderbird/Sunbird users can sync like the wind and it's all just built on regular old addons.

 

[Howell]

I'm in hurry so:

Gmail can act as a pop or imap client and pull in still arriving email. IIRC, what I didn't like about it was that ALL messages then had the date that gmail grabbed them. IIRC, what I did was have the mail client pull down the messages and remove them from the server never to connect again then point gmail at the pop server to grab new messages. Then import the old messages into gmail.

 

[Howell]

Gmail contact sync: vindus add-on

 

[Howell]

I've set up a gmail account to act as a conduit in keeping my contacts and calendar/tasks in sync between my phone and TB - works perfectly for what I do. Just a little annoyed that there is no direct sync path between TB and Android phones.

That is exactly what led me to set up a gmail account 2-3 years ago. I have since stopped regularly using a mail client other than Gmail for personal mail.

 

[time]

Gmail contact sync: vindus add-on

I assume you mean Zindus?

 

[time]

I'm not sure why they'd make you do it differently or what the point would be of having you change an MX record at any point prior to the switch to actual use of Google's servers.

That was my point: they don't need this until you actually point the MX record to them, so WTF? In my case, that's a PITA I didn't need. In fact, I couldn't overcome it at short notice, so I've put the user on a free Gmail account for now until I can resolve this.

Which screwed the user around demanding verification, possibly because I created it in one country and the user logged into it in another? Whatever, Google's just as bad as Apple and Microsoft at getting in your face when you're trying to deliver solutions. Apparently, Nanny Google won't allow .exe files as attachments, even in archives?

 

[time]

I take it no-one has an answer to how a Gmail migration is supposed to be seamless? To recap, the Fastmail solution is to enable you to use their service BEFORE the domain change goes live; therefore you can build it a piece at a time and then just change the MX record.

Does this mean that Google couldn't care less?

 

[Howell]

I take it no-one has an answer to how a Gmail migration is supposed to be seamless? To recap, the Fastmail solution is to enable you to use their service BEFORE the domain change goes live; therefore you can build it a piece at a time and then just change the MX record.

Does this mean that Google couldn't care less?

You have to add an A record but you don't have to change the MX record until you need to.

Also, for a reason I can't remember I did the trial of Apps Business to get access to a tool that eased transition and then cancelled it after the transition.

 

[Howell]

I assume you mean Zindus?

Uh, yeah.

 

[Howell]

http://www.google.com/support/a/bin/answer.py?answer=173534

 

[Mercutio]

You have to add an A record but you don't have to change the MX record until you need to.

Also, for a reason I can't remember I did the trial of Apps Business to get access to a tool that eased transition and then cancelled it after the transition.

I've used that tool and found it to not work particularly well.

It is absolutely possible to start a Gmail transition prior to changing MX records. They give you URLs for accessing your Google Apps stuff through google.com/somelongrandomstring if you want or need to do it that way.

 

[time]

And that's what I'm after.

1. Waste my time fiddling about with the MX record to satisfy Google.
2. Migrate each user, one at a time (we're talking up to 20GB of email per user), probably with forwarding from the existing email server
3. Go live by changing the MX record to point to Google.

Wouldn't it be great if Google could manage to publish a teensy bit of information to facilitate that?

I'm definitely going to hate myself in the morning over this.

 

[Will Rickards]

When I had to confirm ownership, they had two options for verification of ownership. 1. just asked me to put a file on the website itself. 2. was the dns record

 

[Mercutio]

When I had to confirm ownership, they had two options for verification of ownership. 1. just asked me to put a file on the website itself. 2. was the dns record

Maybe the requirements are different for Google Oceania? I know they gave me instructions for accessing the Google Apps stuff without making any changes to DNS. I swear. Honest. I just don't know why time didn't get that. It's worrisome that his process is different from the one I'm familiar with.

 

[ddrueding]

I recall having multiple choices for verification as well, but modifying an A record was always the most trivial.

When I did migrations from Outlook to Google Apps, it would start by redirecting the MX records, with the users still getting on Outlook to read their old messages (they could even reply/forward/compose from there) and the web interface for new messages. I then went one user at a time and migrated their data and removed Outlook from their machine.

Removing Outlook felt really good.

 

[Mercutio]

Every Outlook user I still have to support would have strangled me for daring to have them look anyplace but Outlook for mail.

The times I've done Gmail migrations, I came in and did the work on an 8PM to wee small hours of the morning schedule.

 

[ddrueding]

Every Outlook user I still have to support would have strangled me for daring to have them look anyplace but Outlook for mail.

The advantage of being an employee with some power. I told them to suck it up.

 

[Howell]

It's an added irritation because I'm going to have to jump through hoops to wrest back control of the MX record from a defunct ISP before this goes through.

[rant]
I once had a situation where the external IP address at the client changed without coordinating with us and of course mail stopped.

Once I was granted authority to make changes to the DNS server, which included sending them a fax on client company stationary, I jumped into the DNS server only to discover that Postini was scrubbing their mail.

Through various contortions I don't remember now, I discovered that my client had purchased Postini from a re-reseller....that had gone out of business....a year ago. And apparently you can't just move Postini accounts around you have to close them and reopen them.

I had to explain to the original reseller, who I had no prior relationship with, why I needed him to turn on admin access for me so I could get their mail flowing even though their account should have been dead for over a year.

Stupid self-inflicted emergencies.
[/rant]

 

[Howell]

It is absolutely possible to start a Gmail transition prior to changing MX records. They give you URLs for accessing your Google Apps stuff through google.com/somelongrandomstring if you want or need to do it that way.

Not only that but once you create the A record and complete the verify you get your permanent urls and can configure nice short urls for redirect.

 

[time]

Well, this IS going well.

I managed to transfer domain name hosting to a different provider, which by necessity is MelbourneIT.com.au. That took a couple of days and a couple of hours on the phone.

I then signed up for Google Apps for Business, reached the Verify Domain stage, told it I didn't have a web server (email only) - only for it to tell me that it couldn't use the TXT record method with MelbourneIT.com.au, so I would need to contact the Apps Support Team for a solution.

Perhaps foolishly, I tried calling by phone, reasoning if there was going to be an issue, the sooner I found out the better. I reached someone who I had to spell out the problem to 3 times, along with all my details. By this stage I was getting a bit curt with my responses. Bottom line is that someone should get back to me next business day, which as I pointed out, will be f**king Tuesday here.

Melbourne IT is THE domain registrar for Australia and New Zealand. They used to have a monopoly, which means for all intents and purposes they still do. Can Google be that far up themselves that they think it's okay to just ignore Google Apps registration problems in this part of the world?

I guess so.

 

[ddrueding]

It sounds like MelbourneIT.com.au has some fundamental technical fault? Do they fail to meet the DNS spec? I've never heard of that problem before, and I've used 4 or 5 different registrars here.

 

[time]

I'd love to be able to answer that, but first Google would have to care enough to tell me.

I can't see any impediment to my creating a txt record; their control panel supports it and they also offer direct text editing anyway. Perhaps the problem lies with Google being unable to read it?

As I said earlier in this thread, this is total BS anyway; nothing I do can have any effect on domain users until I change the MX record. If I can change that, obviously I control the domain. :roll: