Mmmmm...I love my new ISP!!

timwhit

Hairy Aussie
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Ya Clocker you suck. My cable internet just upped the charge $15 per month, to $50+tax. It's getting kinda pricey...
 

Prof.Wizard

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Is it possible for an ISP to "fine-tune" its setting to give nice results in various testing sites like this? (But otherwise suck...)
 

James

Storage is cool
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It's hard. Big ISPs theoretically could to some extent, but they're usually the ones that least need to cheat. Small ones can't, because the measurement points are outside their network and they don't control the routing.
 

Clocker

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WHen the installer came over, he said the Network admins (or whoever those guys are) have 4mb upload & 4mb download at their homes using cable. Woulden't THAT be nice....

Clocker
 

James

Storage is cool
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I'd be surprised if they could get that speed, even downloading. 10Mb/s is shared among all nodes in a network boundary, so unless they hardly sell any connections in a given area, the network admins are at the mercy of the other users. The upload is likely to be much less given the asymmetric nature of HFC networks and the equipment involved.

Plus, I'd be worried if the "network admins" actually had to use inband management for the service...
 

James

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One other thing - most companies limit the networking perks available to their employees, usually they only offer them the same as the public gets, or less. The thought behind this is that if you're offering a service but the paying customers can't get decent throughput because your staff are sucking up all the bandwidth, something is badly wrong.

I suspect the installer didn't know what he was talking about and just wanted to impress you.

For example, I work for a global telco. We carry over 1/3 of the world's IP traffic. Our head office in London has a connection to the 'net which in one building covers about 2,000 people. They're on a 2M connection (essentially, the same size as your home connection, only duplex). Our office here is wired (almost) directly into one of our core IP nodes, which has twin 9.6G connections. Our connection size? 512K. :)
 

Clocker

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James said:
I hate you.

If you own a rabbit, expect soup in the not-too-distant future.

I'm still trying to figure this out. WTH?

:)

Clocker
 

James

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It was a subtle reference (apparently too subtle ;) ) to "Fatal Attraction" and the bunny-boiling scene towards the end.
 

Clocker

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Ahhhh! Now I remember with a little help. I only really remember one scene from that movie ;-)

C
 

James

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Cliptin, yes, 2M in each direction. The setup at the office in London is a bit odd - they use asymmetric routing for the return path for security reasons. This is done through a pair of 2M lines, each of which is simplex.

As for your question, a T1 (or any other telco line) is fully duplex, of course, so 1.544M is available in each direction. However, the total bandwidth in the connection is 1.544M as well, so you don't buy a T1 line and magically end up with 1.544M in each direction for a total of 3M.

One thing you may or may not know - available bandwidth on a non-fibre connection (ie. copper, like a T1 or an E1, or subrate stuff) is determined by the clock speed in the CSU/DSU, so the faster the connection rate (64K, 128K, 512K, 2M...), the lower your latency. With fibre the latency is pretty much fixed, but newer cables tend to have lower latencies than older ones (since the speed of light is constant, the improvements have been in the transmission kit).

The company I work for has just lowered the target round trip delays (RTD) for intra USA, trans Atlantic and intra Europe data. This has a lot to do with us running 4 9.6G connections across the Atlantic (we're the first to deploy OC192 between continents) and buying up a bunch of new dark fibre and transmission facilities. A few months ago a tech explained to me that our target RTD SLA for the IP core network is in fact calculated as the speed of light + 30ms to anywhere in the world on the network - just think how fast the core IP switches have to be to keep up with that. :eek:
 

Cliptin

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Ack. I had forgotten that full duplex did not double the bandwidth. It only allows 100% to be used partly in one direction and partly in the other.

It now sounds like you originally meant to say full duplex and symmetric. Does duplex automatically mean symmetric for telcos?

But now you say you have two simplex lines running at 2M apiece. Very nice!

Tea said:
I presume he means 512k in both directions. An assymetric line would be, for example, 512k download, 128k upload.

Or 1.5Mdown and 256kup. :twistd:
 

James

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Cliptin said:
It now sounds like you originally meant to say full duplex and symmetric. Does duplex automatically mean symmetric for telcos?
Well, actually I probably should have said simplex and asymmetric routing. But I thought it was more complexity than was needed.

As for symmetric = duplex, they're really two different things. Duplex or simplex means the connection allows data in one direction or both - our pricelists for international capacity all use simplex PVCs, so that customers can buy asymmetric PVCs if they want. I suppose strictly speaking they could buy a single simplex PVC but I suspect that the network wouldn't work since it would have no return path. I don't know of any network protocols off the top of my head that don't require some level of acknowledgement.

Symmetric connections are the norm in the (business) telco world. You only do asymmetric - and usually only with xDSL tails - when you're trying to extend the network reach beyond a certain distance from the exchange, usually about 2km. At those distances, the xDSL line can't sustain the same speeds and you get a gradual falloff in performance, usually expressed as an asymmetric value.

Symmetric vs. asymmetric routing is different. Usually customers buy a single local tail with multiple PVCs as required, because the local loop is more expensive than an intra-city PVC.
But now you say you have two simplex lines running at 2M apiece. Very nice!
Well, they do, not us. But remember there's 2,000 people using that connection. :eekers:
 

Cliptin

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How often do I get a change to tell a story of historical and technical interest at the same time.

Chattanooga is currently a major hub for national interstate travel both North-South and East-West. Prior to that, it was a railroad hub. Three civil war battles were fought for control of the city in addition to attempts at sabatoge (seeThe Great Locomotive Chase - The story of Andrew's Raiders).

Today rail companies such as Norfolk-Southern lay fiber on their rights of way. Innovation comes pretty slowly but the city and county are working on ways to utilize what we've got.

http://www.chattanooga.gov/mayor/Press_Releases/UTC, ORNL press Conferencefact sheet(1).htm
 
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